Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by Treb, Jul 9, 2018.
Yes we should rebuild.
No, we won't properly rebuild at least until MB is gone.
Does that sum things up?
I'm waiting until this year's TDL before stamping a final determination.
If most remnants of the core are still pulling on Habs jerseys after the TDL... (((facepalm emoji here))).
Until the GM makes a plan and sticks to it then this team will stay in disarray
If I had a dollar for every time I heard this over the years...
Let's face it, this ain't happening until MB is canned. And even then it might not happen. The more I read about Molson the less I like.
So, you would pull the trigger on Weber and Price deals this week?
We need a new GM............period. No way anyone can trust the clown.
I'm wondering if we (ever) get the GM we want if he is told how to manage.
1. Jesperi Kotkaniemi (C)
2. Ryan Poehling (C)
3. Victor Mete (D)
4. Noah Juulsen (D)
5. Jesse Ylönen (RW)
6. Josh Brook (D)
7. Cayden Primeau (G)
8. Jacob Olofsson (F)
9. Cale Fleury (D)
10. Jake Evans (projected)
These are our top 10 prospects according to majority hf habs vote. People who say ''no, we do not need to rebuild'' are essentially saying that from these names will emerge either:
1.) 2 or 3 players who will emerge in the next 2-3 years who, in addition to Shea Weber, Carey Price, Jonathan Drouin and...who else will constitute the core of a championship winning team
2.) 4-5 players who will emerge in the next 4-5 years that will constitute a new championship winning core in its entirety.
So, to those who think we don't need a rebuild, I'd like to hear these names, if you don't mind.
But you can't trade Weber now.
And neither should you trade them all in a short period of time.
Trade Max ASAP.
Trade Price before season start.
Trade Plekanec-Byron-Petry TDL
Trade Weber Draft
Would keep Gallagher to carry the leadership role for the next 3 years as an A.
I'd want to see how Price plays, whether trading him or trading for him.
Max = trade yesterday.
Weber @ the deadline.
Dang. I wanted to make that point man...well done.
Our prospects are far, far, far, far from being sufficient to rebuild this team. We'd be lucky to find 2 core players in this list.
We need at least 2 more drafts in the top 5 and at in at least one of those, a first overall pick.
Let that sink it people: we don't have a concession-defining player.
or Jack Hughes.
Personally, I prefer Lafreniere by quite a bit and not because he is French. I think Jack's size will be a significant risk to manage.
Draft some Ds later in the round, with all these extra 1st rounders we should get from Price-Weber (Petry-Byron?).
I think the habs can very well sell Price without making him play a game. It's Carey Price.
Weber at the deadline is too soon.
I'm not paying what folks here think
Price is worth without seeing him play well this coming season.
Now, some team might ante up, but I wouldn't pay heavy prior to Game 1 of 2018-19.
If you wouldn't pay, someone else would. Hence you would not win the trade and I shouldn't give a ****.
That's a definite maybe.
Jack Hughes, Kaapo Kakko, Alexis Lafrenière (who is absolutely unbelievable), the best of Byfield/Lundell/Holtz.
That's enough names that we can essentially remove luck if we commit to debilitating our roster (I made a lengthy post about . We need to maximize our draft odds and maximize the secondary assets to these names. That's what this whole thing is about for the next two years.
As a strategic matter, it's possible that two of Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Olofsson, Evans, Ikonen come up aces for us, in the sense that we might have a 2*1b+2a situation going on. If it does, the marginal value of wingers increases. If Poehling puts up 50-ish points in the NCAA this year, and Kotkaniemi does about the same in Liiga, Kakko/Lafrenière/Holtz moreso than Hughes/Byfield/Lundell begin to look like the real targets. Importantly, this is information that we'll have by the 2019 draft.
edit: of course I'm not saying no to Hughes lol.
Price yes. Weber... we'd have to wait until he's healthy. Nobody is going to give us anything for him unless they know his knee's okay. Max we should've traded long ago. We shot ourselves in the foot by not trading him by the deadline last year.
Pacioretty's currently in the same situation as Matt Duchene two years ago -- a player who's been on the trade block for ages. Like Pacioretty, Duchene was still on Colorado's roster as he entered his final contract year. Despite Sakic holding out for a year, he ended up getting a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick, plus prospects & players, for him. Pacioretty is a bit older but has a better resume, so Bergevin better demand at least as much. Teams pushing for respectability like Edmonton or Buffalo would be good targets.
Duchene was traded last season, not two seasons ago. He also had/has another year on his contract. Not the same situation at all.
Duchene's trade deadline equivalent to Pacioretty was two seasons ago, February 2016. That's when everyone assumed he would be traded.
But yes, you're right about the extra year on Duchene's contract.
Agreed. However the problem is that it is such an awkward situation for a new GM to walk into. He'll be saddled with long term contracts to Weber and Price (8 years each remaining) along with the bad contracts of Alzner and Shaw (4 years remaining). He'll also have a veteran coach who is signed for four more years at big money. That is a lot to work around for an incoming GM.
The positives aren't all that bright either. The prospect pool is improved, but far from elite; we have a decent young forward group, but no one to really build around. The right side of the defense is solid, but aging and the left side is a complete mess.
I just question the quality of GM we could attract if we fire Bergevin tomorrow. I guess we could bring in a hatchet man for the short term to clear the path for the next permanent GM.
I'd say we need to tank for 1 more year, then we are set.
Get a top 5 pick next season and draft a center (ex: Dach, Hughes, Newhook, turcotte)
It would give us a lineup of:
Drouin - Dach - Gallagher
Domi - Kotkaniemi - Hudon
Lehkonen - Poehling - Scherbak
Shaw - Danault - Armia
That group has the potential to be elite offensively.
Trade Patch for a d-prospect with high upside (ex: hague, clague, fleury, etc.)
[patch trade] - Weber
Mete - Petry
Alzner - Juulsen
Could trade Petry if Juulsen is ready for 2nd pairing dury.
So Hossa is dumped and I don't see 1 st rounder in there.
Maybe these cap dumps aren't all they are cracked up to be? It doesn't seem like picks are being thrown out like candy for cap dumps. I think we actually made out better in taking on Mason than ARI did but I don't know much about the prospects on their end.
And whats with ARI maybe MB doesn't have a direction but last year they traded a top pick for Stepan and finished bottom of the league this year. Then they add AG and take on another cap dump.
Its not a question of if we have to rebuild, its only a question of when management will accept it. Hopefully they already have, even if they have chosen to not use the word itself.
Rebuilding is the only way.
I don't see how any of you guys think we are actually tanking/rebuilding.
Were we rebuilding, Price, Patches and Weber would have been gone already. You can't tank with these guys around. And even if you do, you're stuck with large contracts to declining players when your team is getting better.
Look at what Toronto and Edmonton did: go in for a few years with zero defense, mediocre goaltending, and a bunch of young guns at forward.
The 'process' worked, in the sense that they got to draft some serious talent. But even then, we're still waiting for the actual results. Same with Buffalo.
Maybe we're gonna luck out somehow, but we're clearly not in the tanking process right now, IMO. But I'm really open-minded about all of this. Maybe the next few weeks/months will clarify our situation. I just don't see the process yet. Heck, I don't even see how MB can pretend he has an actual plan.
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