When this tree fell in the forest, who noticed? (CBA & Lockout Discussion)- Part V

[PanthersHockey1]

Fehr did bring up a good point. The CBA doesn't technically expire until next season (?) why did NHL feel the need to lockout a year before expiration. IIRC 2004-2005 lockout same year as CBA expiration.

 

[MacOfNiagara]

Bull ****. It's a bluff. They're just trying to scare the players with a scary fairy tale.



The PA doesn't have any such mindset. They've already written the season off. The owners are now in reactionary mode.

I dont think for a second it is a bluff. Its a tactic to get the PA to negotiate and move instead of waiting until the WC gets closer. But I dont think it is a bluff.

If the PA has already written the season off, then I cannot imagine what they plan on getting in the end to make up for the lost seasons / revenues. Delinkage? Cap Removal? Pipe dreams.

 

[MacOfNiagara]

(Fehr) they would lift the lockout and allow the season to begin on time while negotiations continue

(Lucic) We should be negotiating and playing the season at the same time.

Clearly got that mantra down. The nail in their own coffin. And outside of Fehr, the players and a few others, nobody believes it for one second. Utter BS.

 

[MacOfNiagara]

So they should just use the same CBA that the ****s the owners?

How about the NHLPA comes in with an ammeded CBA that states that everything is 50/50 until a new deal is resolved. Would they be so quick to hit the ice then?

No. They (Fehr) stated no reductions is pay whatsoever. Only offering a smaller raise per year, phased in and based on an optimistic growth model (and in one form I believe with a delinkage, so a guarantee that if growth fails that they still dont lose money).

So no. Dont think they would agree to play under 50/50 for one year while they negotiate. Would expose much of that "we just want to play while we negotiate" rhetoric though.

 

[KaraLupin]

So to clarify, once it gets passed the Winter Classic area of dates, and nothing has been worked out, it's no longer plausible or worthwhile to try to salvage a "mini-season", and they will just call the whole season off?

If they can't work a deal out in a WHOLE year, what will make a second lost season any more urgent? Everyone involved loses money on the daily, not the season-ly.

 

[Boltsfan2029]

"Illegal Curve Hockey ‏@IllegalCurve

NHLPA head Donald Fehr in a just-released statement: "...If the owners truly cared about the game and the fans, (continued)... they would lift the lockout and allow the season to begin on time while negotiations continue."

"Milan Lucic ‏@MilanLucic4 Can't believe it's come down to this. We should be negotiating and playing the season at the same time. Unfortunately some feel we need to Lose games as strategy to bargain the new cba. #thefans #theplayers"

Wait a second. Isn't that what the league tried to do last November and again in January? Negotiate and play at the same time and the PA said no? So it's OK when they do it, but not when the league does it?

 

[Marns]

Howard Berger ‏@Berger_BYTES
#NHL will only cancel two more 14-day segments before pulling plug on the season. No more postponements after U.S. Thanksgiving. #Leafs

Wonder if the PA will try calling their bluff.

 

[Marns]

I keep reading this over and it is baffling... How many times have many of us posted that they need to get in a room and stay there until they start making some progress?

With the cancellation of these regular season games, the players are now going to lose more than if they took a rollback. They said all along they don't want rollbacks, which I understand completely. But they just got hit with a rollback today... Where is the common sense?

There is no logic at play here from either side.

I honestly can't believe we are doing this again. This was the first major sports league in both countries to ever lose a whole season to labor strife, they also have another lockout and a strike on their record...

It's unreal and a disgrace they can't work this out.... I can't even believe that there are people this stupid on both sides to pull this again.

These are pretty much my thoughts exactly. Good post.

 

[kdb209]

Fehr did bring up a good point. The CBA doesn't technically expire until next season (?) why did NHL feel the need to lockout a year before expiration. IIRC 2004-2005 lockout same year as CBA expiration.

Huh?????

The CBA expired on Sept 15, 2012.

It's not pinin'! It's passed on! This CBA is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-CBA!!

And the previous CBA expired on Sept 15, 2004 - prior to the lockout.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Wait a second. Isn't that what the league tried to do last November and again in January? Negotiate and play at the same time and the PA said no? So it's OK when they do it, but not when the league does it?

It truly is absolutely ridiculous that players keep repeating this ''why not just play and negotiate at the same time'' stuff when they stalled forever before engaging in talks. Erik Cole also said it today:

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
#Habs Cole on #NHL cancellation of 1st 2 weeks: "... Realistically we could be playing games & continue to work toward a solution..." 3/4

 

[Tra La La]

Huh?????

The CBA expired on Sept 15, 2012.

It's not pinin'! It's passed on! This CBA is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-CBA!!

And the previous CBA expired on Sept 15, 2004 - prior to the lockout.

Is this Bolton?

 

[NYRKING30]

Huh?????

The CBA expired on Sept 15, 2012.

It's not pinin'! It's passed on! This CBA is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-CBA!!

And the previous CBA expired on Sept 15, 2004 - prior to the lockout.

I think there was an option where it could have been extended for one more season and pretty sure the owners were adamant that they wouldn't play another game under the current cba. If I am wrong, someone correct me.

 

[Tra La La]

It truly is absolutely ridiculous that players keep repeating this ''why not just play and negotiate at the same time'' stuff when they stalled forever before engaging in talks. Erik Cole also said it today:

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
#Habs Cole on #NHL cancellation of 1st 2 weeks: "... Realistically we could be playing games & continue to work toward a solution..." 3/4

It has to be a deadline for NBC to pay the 200 million the league gets if the season is canceled. First NBC sunday game Nov 23, game on by then, or if the league wants the 200 million? Game off. It all fits.

 

[KaylaJ]

In protest of lockout, I have been writing letters to the 30 NHL Governors.

Got a response (phone call) from one today. Wanted my permission to share my letter with NHL (which of course I gave).


So, at least one owner is listening.

That is pretty neat that someone gave you a call. Did you send it to the team's email? Also, when they said "share" did they give any other specifics? Obviously I understand if you cannot answer too much just curious.

 

[JAX]

It truly is absolutely ridiculous that players keep repeating this ''why not just play and negotiate at the same time'' stuff when they stalled forever before engaging in talks. Erik Cole also said it today:

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
#Habs Cole on #NHL cancellation of 1st 2 weeks: "... Realistically we could be playing games & continue to work toward a solution..." 3/4

It's amazing how easily these players are dupped!, do they really believe the BS that comes out of their mouths??? It's insulting as a fan to think they can spout this stuff off and think we believe it like they believe their God Fehr.

 

[Boltsfan2029]

I think there was an option where it could have been extended for one more season and pretty sure the owners were adamant that they wouldn't play another game under the current cba. If I am wrong, someone correct me.

I believe that's correct. I also think that it was already extended once. Perhaps extending it once already & having the PA decline to negotiate during that time led them to believe the same thing would happen this time?

 

[MacOfNiagara]

It truly is absolutely ridiculous that players keep repeating this ''why not just play and negotiate at the same time'' stuff when they stalled forever before engaging in talks. Erik Cole also said it today:

Dave Stubbs ‏@Dave_Stubbs
#Habs Cole on #NHL cancellation of 1st 2 weeks: "... Realistically we could be playing games & continue to work toward a solution..." 3/4

Snake oil sold to the players, to their own determent. Good sales job though because they clearly are lapping it up.

 

[JAX]

"Illegal Curve Hockey ‏@IllegalCurve

NHLPA head Donald Fehr in a just-released statement: "...If the owners truly cared about the game and the fans, (continued)... they would lift the lockout and allow the season to begin on time while negotiations continue."

****. This. Guy.

"Milan Lucic ‏@MilanLucic4 Can't believe it's come down to this. We should be negotiating and playing the season at the same time. Unfortunately some feel we need to Lose games as strategy to bargain the new cba. #thefans #theplayers"

And **** you too, Lucic.

What a god forsaken disaster this whole thing is. I think the league did the right thing by putting a muzzle on their owners, every single thing that I read coming out of the mouth of these buffoon players makes me want to Nancy Kerrigan somebody. I don't know if it would even be possible to regain all the respect I've lost for the majority of these guys.

Thank god most of the Jets have kept their yaps shut so I don't have to cheer against someone on my own team.

It;s good to see most fans see through this BS. Oh yea, Eric Cole **** you too.

 

[wilty00]

I know someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, is it true that under the CBA the players legally aren't allowed to lock out? I'm not well versed in the specifics of all this.

 

[Marns]

Is this Bolton?

Ipswich.

 

[Dado]

But I dont think it is a bluff.

I'm supremely confident that if the players agreed to the owners' proposal 1 day after the claimed deadline, the season would be re-started.

 

[kdb209]

I think there was an option where it could have been extended for one more season and pretty sure the owners were adamant that they wouldn't play another game under the current cba. If I am wrong, someone correct me.

The CBA originally had an expiration date of 9/15/2011. The NHLPA had a unilateral option to extend it a year which they exercised last year. After that point, either party could terminate the CBA with 120 day notice (before 9/15/2012), which the NHL did.

Even now, the NHL could technically lift the lockout and play under the terms of the expired CBA - under US & Canadian labor law, the terms of an expired CBA are deemed to be in force until replaced by a new CBA (or the union decertifies). However, in that case, nothing would prohibit the NHLPA from striking (or the NHL reinstating the lockout) later - including during the season.

 

[KaylaJ]

I have to admit the more the players speak the more I'm apathetic to the whole situation. It is like politics where it is all about PR pandering and not getting down to working things out together. How can either side talk about wanting to negotiate in "good faith" after some of their comments?

 

[Mike Jones]

My letter (that got a response)

This is a great letter! Thanks for letting us have a look.

When it comes to letters and e-mails all I can come up with are "FU Gary" and "Get off your lazy A** Fehr!"

 

[Beef Invictus]

I know someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, is it true that under the CBA the players legally aren't allowed to lock out? I'm not well versed in the specifics of all this.

Lockouts and strikes weren't allowed under the old CBA. However, it expired.