HF Habs: When Does Our Postseason Fate Sort Itself Out? Rebuild Thread

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Archijerej

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Dude, tiny differences between two longshots is not the topic I was discussing. I was responding to a few people who brought up the need to get Lafreniere. Not how to max out this draft in general, but how to get Lafreniere specifically.
Oh come on! Discussing rainbows in the sky and unicorns pissing gold is so much more interesting than tediously going through possible scenarios concerning your favorite hockey team. Don't tell me you didn't have fun during the Tavares sweepstakes. Or the Dahlin draft.
 

ECWHSWI

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Yeah, I think 10th is a stretch. The Bruins managed to get 13, 14 and 15 -- I'd be happy with a second pick in that range.
that would mean trading (thus helping) a solid player to one of the bubble team we're in competition with for the last PO spot... I don't see MB doing that as he probably think we have a chance.
 
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L4br3cqu3

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that would mean trading (thus helping) a solid player to one of the bubble team we're in competition with for the last PO spot... I don't see MB doing that as he probably think we have a chance.

4.8%

22xjed.jpg
 

Archijerej

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that would mean trading (thus helping) a solid player to one of the bubble team we're in competition with for the last PO spot... I don't see MB doing that as he probably think we have a chance.
I really don't think Bergevin's delusional, contrary to what his critics are convinced of. My guess is his mindset is that of a seller and he started to make preliminary arrangements with other GMs. He may postpone pulling the trigger and give this group a chance for the next 5 games or so, but that's it.

Now, the other question is price. I think, when it comes to his most valuable trade chips, he's not going to be strong-armed into making a deal he doesn't like. I believe he'll be reluctant to move Petry, as this would mean a full-blown rebuild unless a suitable replacement could somehow be found. He will move Tatar only if he believes the return is better to what he could get in the summer or next year's deadline.
 

Lshap

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that would mean trading (thus helping) a solid player to one of the bubble team we're in competition with for the last PO spot... I don't see MB doing that as he probably think we have a chance.
Should I mark you down for that prediction? ;)

My original guess was that he'd do the same passive thing he did last year -- no strong push for the playoffs, no move to max out the draft. Basically, do nothing, take the pick from wherever the team lands, and then repeat the mantra, "We're building through the draft".

But I'm going to update my prediction and say this is the year he trades a vet for a 1st round pick. Safe money says Tatar. Will he have the balls to do any of the follow-up moves we've been discussing? Probably not. Baby steps, at least...
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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Should I mark you down for that prediction? ;)

My original guess was that he'd do the same passive thing he did last year -- no strong push for the playoffs, no move to max out the draft. Basically, do nothing, take the pick from wherever the team lands, and then repeat, "We're building through the draft".

But I'm going to update my prediction and say this is the year he trades a vet for a 1st round pick. Safe money says Tatar. Will he have the balls to do any of the follow-up moves we've been discussing? Probably not. Baby steps, at least...
I just don't get why it would only be Tatar... I mean, if you're going to rebuild, just go all the way. These half hearted measures are stupid. Just get it over with already.
 

WatchfulElm

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I just don't get why it would only be Tatar... I mean, if you're going to rebuild, just go all the way. These half hearted measures are stupid. Just get it over with already.

If he goes all the way and trade Petry, Tatar, Kovalchuk and Scandella, that means giving up for next season as well as the current one. I doubt they agree to that, unless they really get an offer they can't refuse. I believe they've been willing to sacrifice the current season and the previous one as part of the reset, but my guess is they want to start to win next year.
 

Lshap

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I just don't get why it would only be Tatar... I mean, if you're going to rebuild, just go all the way. These half hearted measures are stupid. Just get it over with already.
It would be amazing if Bergevin grew a pair, traded Price, Petry and Tatar, and told the media to shut the **** up and let him work. But even if the Wizard gave him courage and a brain, Molson still has to allow him to sacrifice market share for a couple of years. I think these guys have convinced themselves that quick-fixes are really possible.
 

Lshap

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If he goes all the way and trade Petry, Tatar, Kovalchuk and Scandella, that means giving up for next season as well as the current one. I doubt they agree to that, unless they really get an offer they can't refuse. I believe they've been willing to sacrifice the current season and the previous one as part of the reset, but my guess is they want to start to win next year.
I don't think they intended to sacrifice this season. An attempt at Aho, Duchene and Gardiner, a Hail-Mary signing with Kovalchuk -- when you throw that much yeast at a roster, it says you're hoping to make it rise. They were also hoping that Kotkaniemi improved rather than regressed, and that Poehling showed signs of becoming a power forward type. None of those plans worked out, plus the injuries, and so sacrificing this season was an unintended consequence, not Plan-A.
 

WatchfulElm

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I don't think they intended to sacrifice this season. An attempt at Aho, Duchene and Gardiner, a Hail-Mary signing with Kovalchuk -- when you throw that much yeast at a roster, it says you're hoping to make it rise. They were also hoping that Kotkaniemi improved rather than regressed, and that Poehling showed signs of becoming a power forward type. None of those plans worked out, plus the injuries, and so sacrificing this season was an unintended consequence, not Plan-A.

If they got Aho or Duchene, that might have changed the plan. I don't blame him for trying to accelerate the reset. But none of Gardiner or Kovalchuk were intended to be difference makers. I also don't believe they expected KK or Poehling to carry the team as early as this year. And I'm sure Suzuki's early success was not expected.
 

BLONG7

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I just don't get why it would only be Tatar... I mean, if you're going to rebuild, just go all the way. These half hearted measures are stupid. Just get it over with already.
In the past 8 seasons, he has not once picked a direction...he has never gone for it, and never acquired 1-2 first rounders. Either of those directions, would have made him accountable to results.
By always changing his narrative to suit himself, he has been able to keep a job for 8 years, that is far above his intelligence level.

Brutal....and the media and fans in Montreal, all look like sheep right now. 21000 at a time....sad.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

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Should I mark you down for that prediction? ;)

My original guess was that he'd do the same passive thing he did last year -- no strong push for the playoffs, no move to max out the draft. Basically, do nothing, take the pick from wherever the team lands, and then repeat the mantra, "We're building through the draft".

But I'm going to update my prediction and say this is the year he trades a vet for a 1st round pick. Safe money says Tatar. Will he have the balls to do any of the follow-up moves we've been discussing? Probably not. Baby steps, at least...

If he trades Tatar, he also trades Kovy and Scandella, unless one or both of the latter re-sign with us.
 
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BLONG7

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If he trades Tatar, he also trades Kovy and Scandella, unless one or both of the latter re-sign with us.
At some point, whoever the GM is, the team needs change, and alot of it..............if we bring Kovy, Scandella and guys like Petry back, and not switch it up to the youth, how will we ever get better?

It sure looks like it's time to add a couple of 1st rounders, and say bye to Tuna and Petry, and Kovy.....maybe even more guys.
 

DAChampion

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You've missed the point and shifted the topic to a totally ridiculous debate over percentages. The subject was specifically about Lafreniere.

Except Lafreniere is just a symbol for the general point. People would still take the 2nd overall pick if they could.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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In the past 8 seasons, he has not once picked a direction...he has never gone for it, and never acquired 1-2 first rounders. Either of those directions, would have made him accountable to results.
By always changing his narrative to suit himself, he has been able to keep a job for 8 years, that is far above his intelligence level.

Brutal....and the media and fans in Montreal, all look like sheep right now. 21000 at a time....sad.
It’s incredible that there isn’t more pressure on him.
 

Miller Time

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I'm too old for wild fantasies, so forget having three 1sts. Two... what the hell -- mark me down for that! I think it could happen, even though Bergevin's never managed to accomplish it before.

As to where we end up picking, as I said above, I don't see us dropping any lower, even if we trade Tatar or Petry. Our injured players are coming back to compensate, plus -- call me a crazy optimist -- I can't see this team being worse than that epic stretch of back-to-back mega-slumps. Even after that disaster we were 'only' 6th from the bottom. Caveats: If Bergevin goes nuts and trades Petry and Tatar, or if we get other key injuries, then all bets are off.

of course, since that "IF" scenario would require MB to all of a sudden show vision & competence, it is not at all realistic...

Fully aware if that, I was just pointing out what things could look like "IF" we had a good GM... Which we don't.
 
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Lshap

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Except Lafreniere is just a symbol for the general point. People would still take the 2nd overall pick if they could.
The discussion of Lafreniere focused on the supposed importance of drafting a local kid in the year when Montreal plays host. People weren't asking how to get the highest pick possible, they were asking how to get Lafreniere.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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It would be amazing if Bergevin grew a pair, traded Price, Petry and Tatar, and told the media to shut the **** up and let him work. But even if the Wizard gave him courage and a brain, Molson still has to allow him to sacrifice market share for a couple of years. I think these guys have convinced themselves that quick-fixes are really possible.
Do you still think he gets fired this year?

I don’t.
 
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kohorevolution

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@Lshap

I personally put those odds at less than 1%.

100 points team over 82 games= +18
Habs last year over 82 games= +14
Habs this year over 50 games= +1

To make playoffs in 32 games= +15

You don't see the magnitude of what needs to be accomplished. Only a single team every 5-10 years manages this. To go from close to even at the 50 game mark and go +15 or better. Last time was St-Louis last year and before that, the Devils before Brodeur retired.

what about the sens? The year Hammond met Subban’s slapshot.
 

Spearmint Rhino

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It would be amazing if Bergevin grew a pair, traded Price, Petry and Tatar, and told the media to shut the **** up and let him work. But even if the Wizard gave him courage and a brain, Molson still has to allow him to sacrifice market share for a couple of years. I think these guys have convinced themselves that quick-fixes are really possible.
Maybe I'm naive but is this a real thing? Canadiens are still top 2-3 in attendance during MBs tenure when there's been no direction and little regular season or post season success. I think most fans would embrace a rebuild and a youth movement with a new coach that preaches development over Ws

We are decades removed from the glory days, surely we can acknowledge the elephant in the room in 2020 and rebuild
 

ECWHSWI

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If he goes all the way and trade Petry, Tatar, Kovalchuk and Scandella, that means giving up for next season as well as the current one. I doubt they agree to that, unless they really get an offer they can't refuse. I believe they've been willing to sacrifice the current season and the previous one as part of the reset, but my guess is they want to start to win next year.
you think Kovalchuk or Scandella will re-sign here ??

if not, trading Tatar only means losing Tatar, Kovalchuk, Scandella
 
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