When does it become too late?

[Old Guy]

I just checked in on this thread. I didn't read anything....just the title. Please allow me to help;

Until it's too late......it's not too late.

Once it becomes too late......then it's too late.

You're welcome.

Let me know if you feel we need some Old Guy logic in other threads to help answer these thorny issues. Always here to help y'all.

 

[EspenK]

I was browsing through my cap space worksheet and have come to a conclusion. The time to begin a rebuild/major overhaul is now. Nothing I looked at inspired a whole lot of confidence for the future.

Foligno & Dubinsky take up over 11 million in cap space annually for the next 3 years - they need to go away somehow someway.

Jenner & Calvert are due for new deals this year. I'm not sure I see a reason to re-sign either but if they are I hope its for a short term and for what they make now.

Johnson is due a new deal and will probably want at a minimum 5 years at at least 5 mill. No way Jarmo falls for this, I hope.

What to do about Bob? I guess I'd like to see him extended asap after July 1 for no more than 8 mill a year and for no longer than 6 years. Might be hard to do but that is what I would shoot for.

The young guys are a mixed bag imo. Anderson and PLD look like they will be at least adequate top 6 guys for a long time.

Bjorkstrand & Milano remain big question marks in my mind. Bjorkstrand looks like he could be all right in a different system. Milano needs to get stronger at a minimum. And a different system would benefit him too imo.

Jones & Werenski are the rocks on which to build a very solid D corps for the next 10 years. Nutivaara looks promising. Savard could be a chip used to upgrade the offense. I keep Murray even though he gets hurt a lot (not injury prone though) at a reasonable rate and term. 4 years 4 mill? Gavrikov if he ever shows up might be a solid addition. This group plus Bob is the base for the future.

The Monsters are an offensive disaster. No real help apparent. Overseas guys? Who knows? Different game there.

Abramov smurfish. Maybe an offensive star in the making or another bust. Time will tell.

Panarin has to be re-signed. I hope he is extended July 1 for 8 years at whatever it takes. Jackets have never had a guy with his skill level, save maybe young Nash but even then he was a different type of player. Hopefully he is not discouraged by the overall poor offensive system.

Then there is Torts and staff. I don't see him changing. I think he needs to go.

Just my opinions.

 

[Forepar]

I was browsing through my cap space worksheet and have come to a conclusion. The time to begin a rebuild/major overhaul is now. Nothing I looked at inspired a whole lot of confidence for the future.

Foligno & Dubinsky take up over 11 million in cap space annually for the next 3 years - they need to go away somehow someway.

Jenner & Calvert are due for new deals this year. I'm not sure I see a reason to re-sign either but if they are I hope its for a short term and for what they make now.

Johnson is due a new deal and will probably want at a minimum 5 years at at least 5 mill. No way Jarmo falls for this, I hope.

What to do about Bob? I guess I'd like to see him extended asap after July 1 for no more than 8 mill a year and for no longer than 6 years. Might be hard to do but that is what I would shoot for.

The young guys are a mixed bag imo. Anderson and PLD look like they will be at least adequate top 6 guys for a long time.

Bjorkstrand & Milano remain big question marks in my mind. Bjorkstrand looks like he could be all right in a different system. Milano needs to get stronger at a minimum. And a different system would benefit him too imo.

Jones & Werenski are the rocks on which to build a very solid D corps for the next 10 years. Nutivaara looks promising. Savard could be a chip used to upgrade the offense. I keep Murray even though he gets hurt a lot (not injury prone though) at a reasonable rate and term. 4 years 4 mill? Gavrikov if he ever shows up might be a solid addition. This group plus Bob is the base for the future.

The Monsters are an offensive disaster. No real help apparent. Overseas guys? Who knows? Different game there.

Abramov smurfish. Maybe an offensive star in the making or another bust. Time will tell.

Panarin has to be re-signed. I hope he is extended July 1 for 8 years at whatever it takes. Jackets have never had a guy with his skill level, save maybe young Nash but even then he was a different type of player. Hopefully he is not discouraged by the overall poor offensive system.

Then there is Torts and staff. I don't see him changing. I think he needs to go.

Just my opinions.

Foligno/Dubi - Regretfully, reluctantly agree that at least one of them needs to go.

Calvert/Boone - Agree, sign both at current salary for short term; if not acceptable, let them go.

JJ - needs to be gone. For his own sake and for CBJ. Not a bad player, just not enough D need to pay what the price will be for a 2nd or 3rd pair D, when D seems to be our strength (assuming a healthy Murray - and yes I have my helmet on).

I love Bob at G, but not the salary he will command. As painful as it would be, I'd trade him, get a veteran to be #1-B and have Korpi as #1-A.

Agree on PLD and Andy.

Agree on D. Savard may be more valuable for us to keep than what he would bring, but agree that testing the waters on Savard warranted.

The shortness of talent list up front is troubling. Unless Abramov is a home run...unlikely but possible.

Panarin - yes. I was fine with the trade for him, but his overall play has been better than I expected. Now if we can get him finding the back of the net a bit more....

Torts - if Bob stays, Torts's system fits. If Bob does not stay, system change needed.

WAY TO AGREEABLE - must be Sunday morning!

 

[CBJx614]

I was browsing through my cap space worksheet and have come to a conclusion. The time to begin a rebuild/major overhaul is now. Nothing I looked at inspired a whole lot of confidence for the future.

Foligno & Dubinsky take up over 11 million in cap space annually for the next 3 years - they need to go away somehow someway.
Agree

Jenner & Calvert are due for new deals this year. I'm not sure I see a reason to re-sign either but if they are I hope its for a short term and for what they make now.
I think they'll both be re-signed to sweetheart deals as they don't have much in their favor to justify raises.
Johnson is due a new deal and will probably want at a minimum 5 years at at least 5 mill. No way Jarmo falls for this, I hope.
Johnson is gone


What to do about Bob? I guess I'd like to see him extended asap after July 1 for no more than 8 mill a year and for no longer than 6 years. Might be hard to do but that is what I would shoot for.
You gotta ask yourself, who are we without Bob? Is it really worth it? Can we compete without him?

The young guys are a mixed bag imo. Anderson, Bjorkstrand and PLD look like they will be at least adequate top 6 guys for a long time.

Milano remain big question marks in my mind. Bjorkstrand looks like he could be all right with a different coach. Milano needs to get stronger at a minimum. And a different coach would benefit him too imo.
Fixed those for ya

Jones & Werenski are the rocks on which to build a very solid D corps for the next 10 years. Nutivaara looks promising. Savard could be a chip used to upgrade the offense. I keep Murray even though he gets hurt a lot (not injury prone though) at a reasonable rate and term. 4 years 4 mill? Gavrikov if he ever shows up might be a solid addition. This group plus Bob is the base for the future.
Agreed

The Monsters are an offensive disaster. No real help apparent. Overseas guys? Who knows? Different game there.
Kinda a good thing though, that a good chunk of our drafted talent is taking the next step to the NHL instead of sitting in the AHL forever, however they need some bodies ready for callup down there. Could have a few more bodies down there next season

Abramov smurfish. Maybe an offensive star in the making or another bust. Time will tell.

Panarin has to be re-signed. I hope he is extended July 1 for 8 years at whatever it takes. Jackets have never had a guy with his skill level, save maybe young Nash but even then he was a different type of player. Hopefully he is not discouraged by the overall poor offensive system.
Fingers crossed

Then there is Torts and staff. I don't see him changing. I think he needs to go.
I was pretty happy at the Torts signing at first, but I think the jackets just need someone else. I've lost faith in him and I think some of the guys are starting to tune him out already.
Just my opinions.

My opinions in red

 

[blahblah]

Panarin is a high skilled player, however I see no evidence to suggest that he's our Tarasenko. We've got a bit longer to look at him before I say one way or another what I think of re-signing him. At this point I see no driving reason to give him the dollars he will demand. I hope he gives us a reason. To this point we're not really a better team with him in the lineup.

 

[Maylo]

Torts - if Bob stays, Torts's system fits. If Bob does not stay, system change needed.

If Torts system stays, no way Panarin stays.

 

[CBJx614]

Panarin is a high skilled player, however I see no evidence to suggest that he's our Tarasenko. We've got a bit longer to look at him before I say one way or another what I think of re-signing him. At this point I see no driving reason to give him the dollars he will demand. I hope he gives us a reason. To this point we're not really a better team with him in the lineup.

I'm fairly confident that the jackets wouldn't be top 3 in the metro, let alone a wildcard spot had we kept Saad and Forsberg.


What that's worth, I'll let Jarmo and Zito decide.

 

[MoeBartoli]

I'm fairly confident that the jackets wouldn't be top 3 in the metro, let alone a wildcard spot had we kept Saad and Forsberg.

What that's worth, I'll let Jarmo and Zito decide.

I would agree I'd love to keep him. Even in Torts Fred Flintstone offense his value is huge.

He's been central in a pair of OT wins with a goal and assist and money in SO, converting 5 of 9. On a team with so little margin, he and Bob are key in these 1-0, 2-1 and the SO/OT games. What we need is someone else who can find the net to convert the many table-setting assists he's delivered only to see his teammate fail to convert.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

With respect to Panarin, the CBJ have to make a decision somewhere between now and about this time next season whether or not he's going to be the Go To Guy. He's likely going to cost north of $8 million per year, so it's a huge decision.

Bob is going to be as big of a decision.

These two calls will shape the look of CBJ hockey for years to come.

 

[blahblah]

I'm fairly confident that the jackets wouldn't be top 3 in the metro, let alone a wildcard spot had we kept Saad and Forsberg.

Yet, we were last season.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Yet, we were last season.

The CBJ were a lot of things last season that they aren't this season.

Saad is on a 40 points pace this year and Forsberg's poor performance caused the Hawks to bring up a 31 year old rookie to be their #1 while Crawford mends.

So, yeah, the CBJ would be worse off. Pretty obvious.

 

[CBJx614]

Yet, we were last season.

Lol this isn't last season. The players who led us last season have been mainly MIA most of the season outside of Bob. Right now it's Bob, Panarin and Jones leading this team.

We still have a little less than half a season, if we're lucky, playoffs and then another entire season before a decision needs to be made. That's a lot of hockey to be played and his performance will determine what route the FO take.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The CBJ were a lot of things last season that they aren't this season.

Saad is on a 40 points pace this year and Forsberg's poor performance caused the Hawks to bring up a 31 year old rookie to be their #1 while Crawford mends.

So, yeah, the CBJ would be worse off. Pretty obvious.

Lol this isn't last season. The players who led us last season have been mainly MIA most of the season outside of Bob. Right now it's Bob, Panarin and Jones leading this team.

We still have a little less than half a season, if we're lucky, playoffs and then another entire season before a decision needs to be made. That's a lot of hockey to be played and his performance will determine what route the FO take.

Players who go away and succeed are mistakes. Players who go away and fail would also have failed here, thus keeping the Jackets from their spot in the top 3 in the division. I'm not sure I really understand.

Maybe the reason those successful players from last season are struggling is because they played better with Saad? The team as a whole was better perhaps? (Or perhaps not, but we're pretty dismissive.)

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Players who go away and succeed are mistakes. Players who go away and fail would also have failed here, thus keeping the Jackets from their spot in the top 3 in the division. I'm not sure I really understand.

Maybe the reason those successful players from last season are struggling is because they played better with Saad? The team as a whole was better perhaps? (Or perhaps not, but we're pretty dismissive.)

That wasn't said. But, yes, if you insist, Karlsson's departure was a huge mistake by management.

What's so hard to grasp about Pararin>>Saad and that the CBJ are better off with Panarin than Saad? What's so hard to grasp about Forsberg not being very good and that the CBJ are better off with Korpisalo as their backup than Forsberg?

 

[NotWendell]

If we play February like we played January, March 1 is too late.

 

[Maylo]

My opinions in red
I think they'll both be re-signed to sweetheart deals as they don't have much in their favor to justify raises.

Oh boy, if those two are re-signed, Bob is gone and Torts is still there, i feel for this team.

 

[NotWendell]

That wasn't said. But, yes, if you insist, Karlsson's departure was a huge mistake by management.

What's so hard to grasp about Pararin>>Saad and that the CBJ are better off with Panarin than Saad? What's so hard to grasp about Forsberg not being very good and that the CBJ are better off with Korpisalo as their backup than Forsberg?

So are suggesting Jarmo should have let Vegas pick Anderson instead of Wild Bill? I agree that Bread is better than Saad. Korpi is a better NHL goalie than Forsberg. And I hated to see William go, but you lost me with "huge mistake."

 

[Cyclones Rock]

26th ranked PK. 31st ranked PP. 21st in goals differential. 12-0-3 record in SO/OT.

Terrible special teams play has been covered by an unreal record in the SO/OT. Unless special teams improve, this team has little chance of making the playoffs. The SO/OT record can't be sustained.

I think we'll know in the next 10 games whether this team has turned the corner and has a decent chance of making the playoffs. They will have to be a better team than they've been since the beginning of November or they will be on the links by the second week of April.

 

[Old Guy]

I was browsing through my cap space worksheet and have come to a conclusion. The time to begin a rebuild/major overhaul is now. Nothing I looked at inspired a whole lot of confidence for the future.

Foligno & Dubinsky take up over 11 million in cap space annually for the next 3 years - they need to go away somehow someway.

Jenner & Calvert are due for new deals this year. I'm not sure I see a reason to re-sign either but if they are I hope its for a short term and for what they make now.

Johnson is due a new deal and will probably want at a minimum 5 years at at least 5 mill. No way Jarmo falls for this, I hope.

What to do about Bob? I guess I'd like to see him extended asap after July 1 for no more than 8 mill a year and for no longer than 6 years. Might be hard to do but that is what I would shoot for.

The young guys are a mixed bag imo. Anderson and PLD look like they will be at least adequate top 6 guys for a long time.

Bjorkstrand & Milano remain big question marks in my mind. Bjorkstrand looks like he could be all right in a different system. Milano needs to get stronger at a minimum. And a different system would benefit him too imo.

Jones & Werenski are the rocks on which to build a very solid D corps for the next 10 years. Nutivaara looks promising. Savard could be a chip used to upgrade the offense. I keep Murray even though he gets hurt a lot (not injury prone though) at a reasonable rate and term. 4 years 4 mill? Gavrikov if he ever shows up might be a solid addition. This group plus Bob is the base for the future.

The Monsters are an offensive disaster. No real help apparent. Overseas guys? Who knows? Different game there.

Abramov smurfish. Maybe an offensive star in the making or another bust. Time will tell.

Panarin has to be re-signed. I hope he is extended July 1 for 8 years at whatever it takes. Jackets have never had a guy with his skill level, save maybe young Nash but even then he was a different type of player. Hopefully he is not discouraged by the overall poor offensive system.

Then there is Torts and staff. I don't see him changing. I think he needs to go.

Just my opinions.

After reading this I'm ready to kill myself.

 

[EDM]

Well, being in 2nd place on January 29 is certainly not too late. But with whatever this scheme is that Torts is using this year "too late" can come quickly.

 

[Crede777]

The Jackets are in the bottom-5 for shooting percentage. Is that because of lack of skill? Lack of getting proper screens and rebounds? Bad luck?

The scoring rate will go up. Hopefully our defense and Bob don't get burned out before then.

 

[EDM]

I am sorry if I am being repetitious, but a year ago Torts seemed to have found an almost revolutionary new scheme involving using your d-men to move the puck quickly up the ice and get off a shot before the other team could set up its defense. And it worked. We were getting off quick shots, getting juicy rebounds because the other team did not have their defenses set up.

Now it is like we turned the clock back 20 years. We get possession of the puck in our end, the d-man immediately takes the puck behind our net, almost looks like he he is trying to "be fair" to the other team by giving them the time to set up their defenses, then the d-man starts his slow journey back up the ice into the set defense where the d-man then has to do a dump pass where it is as best 50-50 that we retain possession of the puck. Then, even it we do retain possession, we wind up cycling it around the perimeter where we make a shot from the outside that is either blocked or seen clearly by the goalie.

I just do not understand this type of thinking.

 

[KJ Dangler]

So are suggesting Jarmo should have let Vegas pick Anderson instead of Wild Bill? I agree that Bread is better than Saad. Korpi is a better NHL goalie than Forsberg. And I hated to see William go, but you lost me with "huge mistake."

I would absolutely rather have Karlsson , then Anderson, just due to the huge void we have down the middle. Karlsson is turning into a number one center , and him and Pld would be solid . Having said that , does anyone think under Torts prehistoric system , Karlsson would have 27 goals here ? We have have a lot more offensive talent then we know.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

The Jackets are in the bottom-5 for shooting percentage. Is that because of lack of skill? Lack of getting proper screens and rebounds? Bad luck?

The scoring rate will go up. Hopefully our defense and Bob don't get burned out before then.

I'd attribute lower shooting percentages to both bad luck with certain players (Panarin) and decline in certain players.

When a player starts declining (Dubinsky, Jenner, Foligno) his shooting percentage drops. That percentage doesn't recover.

 

[MAHJ71]

The Jackets are in the bottom-5 for shooting percentage. Is that because of lack of skill? Lack of getting proper screens and rebounds? Bad luck?

The scoring rate will go up. Hopefully our defense and Bob don't get burned out before then.

We sure HOPE it will go up. People have been saying it'll go up since early November..