When does it become too late?

[MAHJ71]

Realistically we have 1 proven top line guy, Panarin, and one proven top line D in Jones.

I must have missed the past season and a half where Werenski set records..

Gosh darn it, he’ll need to double all of that to become a “proven top line D”

 

[Cowumbus]

I must have missed the past season and a half where Werenski set records..

Gosh darn it, he’ll need to double all of that to become a “proven top line D”

No he’s close, I just need 2 seasons before I call someone Proven. See Jenner, Clarkson, Foligno etc

And is that really all you took from my post...

 

[Jackets16]

How are some of those players better and more proven than some of our players?

 

[Jackets16]

No he’s close, I just need 2 seasons before I call someone Proven. See Jenner, Clarkson, Foligno etc

And is that really all you took from my post...

Hanifin has 71 points in 199 games played (0.36 points per game) and is a -37.

Werenski has 66 points in 115 games played (0.57 points per game) and is a +20.

How exactly is Hanifin a proven top defenseman and Weresnki isn't?

 

[Doug19]

because it doesn't fit his narrative.

 

[MoeBartoli]

No he’s close, I just need 2 seasons before I call someone Proven. See Jenner, Clarkson, Foligno etc

And is that really all you took from my post...

Yep.....that two season rule is why I'm withholding judgement on Matthews and Laine.

 

[Cowumbus]

Hanifin has 71 points in 199 games played (0.36 points per game) and is a -37.

Werenski has 66 points in 115 games played (0.57 points per game) and is a +20.

How exactly is Hanifin a proven top defenseman and Weresnki isn't?

Where did I say that.. I was talking about teams having young cores. Wow.

 

[Cowumbus]

because it doesn't fit his narrative.

You guys all need to learn how to read. You’re putting words in my mouth. All I said was that most teams have good young cores, give me a break.

You all et butt hurt so easily.. other teams can have good players. You’re the ones making comparisons between them.

 

[Viqsi]

No he’s close, I just need 2 seasons before I call someone Proven. See Jenner, Clarkson, Foligno etc

And apparently the opposite of "proven" is "horrible bust to get rid of", given the names you cite and how you've been reacting to them.

* * *​

Honestly, I have quite come to the conclusion that the only substantive difference between the "OH G-D WE'RE SO DOOMED FIRE EVERYONE" voices on this board and the similar ones on the Buckeyes boards that I learned to avoid like the plague is that the latter is set off by only one loss, whereas here back-to-back losses are required.

Seriously, people. Are you this damn trigger-happy in your day-to-day lives? At your jobs? With your family and friends? Grow up and learn some patience, for once. I have for-real honest to G-d diagnosed panic issues as a documented mental illness and I manage to not fly off the handle and run around screaming like you people do here. This is embarrassing.

 

[Jackets16]

You guys all need to learn how to read. You’re putting words in my mouth. All I said was that most teams have good young cores, give me a break.

While leaving off a bunch of players who would give Columbus a good young core. If you leave off some of the Columbus players, you have to leave off some of the players on the other teams. They are either all a part of it or none of them are a part of it.

 

[Jackets16]

Where did I say that.. I was talking about teams having young cores. Wow.

Canes
Aho, Skinner, Pesce, Lindholm, Hanifin, Faulk

Realistically we have 1 proven top line guy, Panarin, and one proven top line D in Jones.


I see Hanifin. I don't see Werenski. If Hanifin is included for his team, Werenski is definitely included for his.

 

[CBJFan827]

Uh, y'all... PB's post said most teams have good young cores, and that it's elite talent that sets things apart. They listed Jones & Panarin because those are the only two currently, established "elite" talents we have along with our young core, in their estimation.

He wasn't saying the list of players were other team's elite players. He was saying they were other's young key pieces.

In short, what I understood was PB said that we have a good young core, but a lot of other teams (like those he listed from the Metro) also have good young cores.

Breathe.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

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[Cyclones Rock]

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[Johansen2Foligno]

Is it too late yet?

Dr. Manhattan says it's too late. Always has been, always will be.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I just don't get the hysterical nay saying. We have a good young core. We just need to keep building upon it. No need to burn the house down.

Most teams have a good young core, it takes great players to set you above.
Just from our division:

NYR
Zibanejad, Miller, Buchnevich, Fast, Skjei, Vessey
Philly
Patrick, Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Courtirier, Konecny
Canes
Aho, Skinner, Pesce, Lindholm, Hanifin, Faulk
Devils
Bratt, Hischier, Butcher, Zacha, Wood, Severson

Caps/Pens have young guys too.


Realistically we have 1 proven top line guy, Panarin, and one proven top line D in Jones.

Here is the post in question and the one it was in reply to. I think it’s possibke to interpret this in multiple ways. Are the lists for other teams their ‘good young core’ or their ‘great players to set you above’? It’s not clear. Are the two Jackets players listed their ‘good young core’ or their ‘great players to set you above’? I can guess but again, it’s not clear. If PB is listing one thing for the other teams and another thing for the CBJ, that’s not clear, nor is the reason why they’d be listed that way.

 

[Viqsi]

Well let Viqsi know that I have a much larger “Post reply” button than her.

It's not the size; it's how you use it.

 

[Cowumbus]

Here is the post in question and the one it was in reply to. I think it’s possibke to interpret this in multiple ways. Are the lists for other teams their ‘good young core’ or their ‘great players to set you above’? It’s not clear. Are the two Jackets players listed their ‘good young core’ or their ‘great players to set you above’? I can guess but again, it’s not clear. If PB is listing one thing for the other teams and another thing for the CBJ, that’s not clear, nor is the reason why they’d be listed that way.

Lol keep trying to spin it however you want. I said many teams have young cores and then gave examples of those young cores.This is also why I said the Caps/Pens have YOUNG GUYS too

In this post and a previous post I said you need ELITE talent to separate you from being just another team with a good young core. I then gave the examples of Panarin and Jones being those type players.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Lol keep trying to spin it however you want.

Not spinning, just explaining why there has been some confusion with you post.

I said many teams have young cores and then gave examples of those young cores.This is also why I said the Caps/Pens have YOUNG GUYS too

You said both young core and elite talent in the same sentence. Then you made you lists, without specifying which of your two categories you were listing.

In this post and a previous post I said you need ELITE talent to separate you from being just another team with a good young core. I then gave the examples of Panarin and Jones being those type players.

Ok but you posted other stuff in between, including your lists from other teams.

I’m not taking issue with the point you’re making. But instead of clarifying it you’re just loling and insulting people.

 

[EDM]

I really dont think Nashville has a lot if elite talent. But they have a lot of very good pkayers who play well together in specific system and they came darn close to winning the Cup.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

I just look at the core group of 25 and under and I am not worried. I think this rocky start is the result of putting all your chips in a young group. It is a younger team than last year, where all of the veterans have played worse than we've seen from them in 5 years - Foligno, Dubinsky, Atkinson, Johnson, Savard. Clearly all of them need to step up, and I'm not quite sure that any of them are at the end of their careers yet.

I do think we could stand to have another center that can complement Dubois and Wennberg, and we have to do everything we can to keep Bread, but I believe in this young group.

The teams best players are 21-23 years old... Outside of old man Panarin, who if we get under contract, could be a great player for 8 years.

25 and under core: Panarin, Dubois, Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Anderson, Milano, Werenski, Jones, Nutivaara, Murray, Carlsson

It is a good group that is well rounded. One superstar forward (Panarin), two young top-6 centers (Dubois, Wennberg). Three young wings with obvious upside (Bjorkstrand, Anderson, Milano). Two cornerstone first pair defensemen (Jones, Werenski). Two more youngtop four defensemen (Murray, Nutivaara). One that has all the tools to grow into a top 4 guy (Carlsson).

I have plenty of confidence that that group can grow into their roles eventually. It is a lot to ask all of them to do it immediately without much help from the veterans that have led this team for years. A good amount of veteran players need to step up, yeah, but I don't think they can play any worse and that young core group is continuing to improve. If any of the veteran group plays as good as they have in years past, or even if a single one returns to playing like a top 6 / top 4 player, we will be in good shape.

It helps to have the 1-2 punch in goal that we have.

 

[Cowumbus]

Not spinning, just explaining why there has been some confusion with you post.



You said both young core and elite talent in the same sentence. Then you made you lists, without specifying which of your two categories you were listing.



Ok but you posted other stuff in between, including your lists from other teams.

I’m not taking issue with the point you’re making. But instead of clarifying it you’re just loling and insulting people.

Do you not expect me to be frustrated when people would rather try and find a fault in something you say in an attempt to discredit your point, or point out some bs fallacy as to why you have no grounds for that opinion; rather than actually give evidence or discuss the point I am trying to make?

I feel like this board is an “old boy’s club” where the “veteran” posters control the narrative, disagree and get flamed and then get an infraction. But how many times to the “veteran” players get infractions, I bet it’s a bit lower. I just want to be critical of the team, front office, media too to bottom, because I want this team to not just be a good team, but the BEST team. I think you should strive to be the best in the league. However on this board it seems like if you have issues, concerns etc about the team and made them known, you will be crucified for not being in coordination with the circle jerk groupthink that is going on.

Not spinning, just explaining why there has been some confusion with you post.



You said both young core and elite talent in the same sentence. Then you made you lists, without specifying which of your two categories you were listing.



Ok but you posted other stuff in between, including your lists from other teams.

I’m not taking issue with the point you’re making. But instead of clarifying it you’re just loling and insulting people.

I apologize, I thought people could infer what I meant. Clearly players like Vessey are not elite.. I thought that was obvious.

 

[Cowumbus]

I just look at the core group of 25 and under and I am not worried. I think this rocky start is the result of putting all your chips in a young group. It is a younger team than last year, where all of the veterans have played worse than we've seen from them in 5 years - Foligno, Dubinsky, Atkinson, Johnson, Savard. Clearly all of them need to step up, and I'm not quite sure that any of them are at the end of their careers yet.

I do think we could stand to have another center that can complement Dubois and Wennberg, and we have to do everything we can to keep Bread, but I believe in this young group.

The teams best players are 21-23 years old... Outside of old man Panarin, who if we get under contract, could be a great player for 8 years.

25 and under core: Panarin, Dubois, Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Anderson, Milano, Werenski, Jones, Nutivaara, Murray, Carlsson

It is a good group that is well rounded. One superstar forward (Panarin), two young top-6 centers (Dubois, Wennberg). Three young wings with obvious upside (Bjorkstrand, Anderson, Milano). Two cornerstone first pair defensemen (Jones, Werenski). Two more youngtop four defensemen (Murray, Nutivaara). One that has all the tools to grow into a top 4 guy (Carlsson).

I have plenty of confidence that that group can grow into their roles eventually. It is a lot to ask all of them to do it immediately without much help from the veterans that have led this team for years. A good amount of veteran players need to step up, yeah, but I don't think they can play any worse and that young core group is continuing to improve. If any of the veteran group plays as good as they have in years past, or even if a single one returns to playing like a top 6 / top 4 player, we will be in good shape.

It helps to have the 1-2 punch in goal that we have.

And I agree with this, however I think Jarmo should have and still should make a move. A true NHL low 3 /4 C is not too much to ask for. Peter Holland is a good example, probably could be had for a late pick. And he is depth when everyone returns, but is better than Dalpe and comp.

 

[CharlotteJacket]

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The teams best players are 21-23 years old... Outside of old man Panarin, who if we get under contract, could be a great player for 8 years.

That's going to be interesting. If Panarin doesn't sign over the summer, do we begin to get nervous with him? And if he doesn't sign during the season, do we trade him for the best offer?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

That's going to be interesting. If Panarin doesn't sign over the summer, do we begin to get nervous with him? And if he doesn't sign during the season, do we trade him for the best offer?

There are going to be some very interesting sets of negotiations going on starting next year. Z, Bread and Bob all have contracts which come due after next season. For 2019-20, the Jackets currently have $37 million of cap to work with. That number will decline as other players get signed. That cap will go up, but who know by how much. Bread and Bob are $8 million per year (or more) players as UFAs. The Jackets could play hardball with Zach, but I'll guess they'll sign him to a 6 year deal at $6.5 million or so. If these guys get signed, there isn't going to be a whole lot more to spend.

I'm going to take as signals that the CBJ want to sign all three of the aforementioned players if Jenner is traded and Calvert is let go. Bob, Bread, Z, Jones, Dubi, Foligno, Wennberg, Savard and Cam- will have roughly $53 million/year between them the so the CBJ are going to have to go with a lot of cost controlled (RFA) players and bargain bin types unless a big contract player gets traded with minimal retention. If they all are signed and the cap goes up to $85 million, that leaves $32 million to buy 15 players. A $4 million Jenner and $2 million Calvert probably wouldn't be good fits. Jack Johnson almost assuredly won't be resigned.

Jarmo has committed to this group. He's not going to get the equivalent goalie of Bob or forward of Bread's caliber for less than $8 million per year. So, if he lets those guys go, he's going to have to take inferior players or spend just as much for their equivalents.

These negotiations with the Big 3 (Z, Bob and Bread) could easily make the Johansen and Anderson negotiations look like child's play.