When does it become too late?
- Thread starter Iron Balls McGinty
- Start date
TaketheCannoli
RIP
They don't need to rebuild, they need to build. This team is still several players away from becoming a true contender. It makes no sense to tear it down. There will be a few guys who age out and that's normal. What the team needs is to find a few high skill players in the draft. It's a difficult task but some scouting departments seem to find them. Tampa found Kucherov in the 2nd round, Boston found both Pastrnak and McAvoy later in the 1st round and of course, the Senators found Karlsson with the 15th overall pick while the Blues found Tarasenko with the 16th, Schwartz with the 14th and Parayko in the 3rd round. How strong is the Jackets' amateur scouting? As good as the Blues and Bruins? If not, that's a spot the front office needs to examine.
The NHL is getting younger and faster. Once a guy hits his early thirties it's hard for them to stay in their game. I expect Dubinsky and Foligno to begin to drop-off quickly.
We are not several players away and that post is just another example of riding the wave of emotions.
Cheers.
Cheers.
TaketheCannoli
RIP
Do you think they have what they need to compete for a championship? I'm not riding any wave of emotion. I didn't believe they were contenders before the season started.
No no no no.
Jarmo has said over and over and over not to build from FA.
A depth 3rd line center or along those lines, sure. But I'm not going into FA looking for a top 6 player.
I think this is young team that needs to continue to develop. I think there is enough talent to compete. Do I think they would be a favorite? No.
My thoughts on the teams and players are well documented. I've seen the extremes around here and, frankly, I don't find your analysis accurate. Just opportunistic.
Good luck to you and the Jackets.
Cowumbus
Registered User
Yes let’s wait 5 years to see if the center we draft can fit with our team. We aren’t going to be drafting top5 so the chances of getting an ELITE 1C are slim.
Tavares would make our team a contender regardless of his price.
For Barkov right?? Somebody get Jarmo Florida's number!!
Oh shit, scratch that on Barkov. "Johnny Capspace" makes us immediately better! Only question is if he's a "fit" on that top line with Panarin.
"Johnny Capspace" it is.
I personally think everything goes back to the "disaster" of 2015-16. Go back and see what was said about "what the team is/was" back then and during that summer. Then, when we had so much success last year, I honestly don't think people knew what to think
Like last year (mainly during the "streak"), I find it "funny" that the only time a lot of you will "stick up" for this team or try to "hype" up the quality of the team or players, is when a Pittsburgh fan (or any other similar ignorant fan) is attempting to demean a player or the team/organization in general. But in talks with other CBJ "fans", some of you sound quite shockingly similar to many of "these ignorant Pittsburgh fans".
This team is good. They can "easily" make the playoffs. Having 4 important "regulars" miss weeks at the same time will negatively affect any NHL team, some more than others. While the odds are different for each team, ANY team that makes the NHL playoffs can win the Cup.
Do you think they have what they need to simply make the playoffs? How many teams in the NHL, or what teams exactly, in your mind, do you consider having "what they need to compete for a championship"?
Regardless of how realistic this scenario is, either shipping multiple valuable assets in-division for him, or him choosing the CBJ over 30 other teams, its pretty clear at this point that "Johnny Capspace" is a MUCH MUCH better option, now and going forward.
We are fine enough. I agree that it would be great to have a superstar (which we do, BTW in Bob...and a soon-to-be IMO in Panarin), but we have nice depth at the NHL level. I agree that we can't play two 2nd lines, but I think we have enough talent to play two 2nd lines and that is a nice luxury to have. Of course I'd like to have a top line like the studs of the league have, but we don't. AND neither do 80% of the rest of the league. Challenge yourself to name the top players on the Jets, Blues, Nashville, VGK, SJ....
By definition, there are only a couple of superstars in any league. Well there will be about 12 teams that make the playoffs without a superstar, and we will be one of them. 12 of the teams will have a top scorer with 50 - 60 points. Would a 90 point guy be great, of course. But we are fine.
I think the most important signing we can make is Panarin, now, if possible. He is happy here (sincerely, apparently) and someone who does not cross our path too often, if ever. I'd pay as much as $2M / year over market and get him locked up. I'd give him 6 or 7 years @ $8 - $9M per and celebrate.
By definition, there are only a couple of superstars in any league. Well there will be about 12 teams that make the playoffs without a superstar, and we will be one of them. 12 of the teams will have a top scorer with 50 - 60 points. Would a 90 point guy be great, of course. But we are fine.
I think the most important signing we can make is Panarin, now, if possible. He is happy here (sincerely, apparently) and someone who does not cross our path too often, if ever. I'd pay as much as $2M / year over market and get him locked up. I'd give him 6 or 7 years @ $8 - $9M per and celebrate.
TaketheCannoli
RIP
Do I think they can make the playoffs? Yes they can if they stay relatively injury free much like last season. Are they a Cup contender like some of the eighth seeds in recent years - like LA, Nashville and Philly? No - LA and Philly had a number of high end players(Richards, Carter, Doughty,Kopitar, Pronger, Giroux etc.) and were especially strong up the middle. Nashville had a larger number of difference makers and a better defense.
TaketheCannoli
RIP
My thoughts are well documented as well. I believe they should continue to draft and develop. They have a good core but need a few guys with higher end talent I do believe they should upgrade the scouting department.
Good luck to you as well.I hope you have a great 18.
Some poor choices. The Jets are loaded with high end skill: Scheifele is a high end 1c, Ehlers and Laine are difference makers, plus a very strong defense. They are weak in goal. The Blues have Tarasenko, Schwartz, Steen, Parayko, Pietrangelo, and Stastny. Nashville? Arvidson, Johansen, Forsberg, Josi, Subban, Ellis, and they recently added Turris.
This is pretty much where I'm at... I feel like we have the talent but I'm no longer so sure this entire coaching staff is who we need to get us to take the next step in the playoffs.
Two examples come to mind: 1) suddenly not being able to fix the power play to 2) both our offense and defense seemingly taking steps back this year with no real answers as to what fix we need to employ to get things going in a positive direction consistently.
Disclaimer: I've always been a fan of Torts, and I fully realize the coaches can only do so much... but with Torts it feels like we try one style/scheme/whatever and if it doesn't work by golly we're going to try it until it works even if its simply the wrong fit for the team.
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I just don't get the hysterical nay saying. We have a good young core. We just need to keep building upon it. No need to burn the house down.
Double-Shift Lasse
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Double-Shift Lasse
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Yeah I just wanted to make sure Wennberg was in there. Post was just me goofing around.
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EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Crede777
Deputized
- Dec 16, 2009
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That's not going to go well. Quality players just aren't available in FA anymore.
They need a trade. Or a lot of luck by getting a top center late in the first.
CBJFan827
I hate you Brad Marchand
- Jul 19, 2006
- 1,646
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I think this thread is overboard, but I agree (as I did a month plus back) that we should trade JMFJ (if even for a late pick after the season for early negotiation rights) and Jenner. There is no reason to sign Jenner for more than he makes now, unless he put up 20-25 points the rest of the way and wins 65% of his faceoffs. At that point, it would be him or Dubi as the #3 center, and one of them is more moveable than the other. I still think trading Jenner for a more skilled offensive piece would be beneficial. He had one season that threw off our expectations of him as a 3rd line center. That's what he is--he does not have anything that makes him worthy of top 6 minutes.
Part of me wonders if Dubi, when healthy, would be more effective on the wing? A large part of me also wonders if Foligno losing the C would be a boon to his game. Take that pressure off and just let him play. I'm not convinced, but it's about where I'm at.
Part of me wonders if Dubi, when healthy, would be more effective on the wing? A large part of me also wonders if Foligno losing the C would be a boon to his game. Take that pressure off and just let him play. I'm not convinced, but it's about where I'm at.
MoeBartoli
Checkers-to-Jackets
- Jan 12, 2011
- 14,103
- 10,333
So let's say we stay in the hunt until the team returns to full strength. At that point we send the AHL backstop brigade back to Cleveland and look something like this:
Bread-PLD-Bjork
Sonny-Wennberg-Cam
Filigno-Dubi-Andy
Jenner-Sedlak-Matty
Jones-Nuti
Z -Murray
JMFJ-Savard
Bob
Yeah, skew me for the lines but it's what rings my bell at the moment...and don't worry, I'm certain Torts doesn't see it this way.....Now
If Cam and Wenny can regain their form and Foligno can provide some offense, I think this group should secure a playoff spot. Oh, and if Bob stays healthy - physically and mentally. (More ifs than I would like). There's still a wide gap vs. TB and I still question whether we can overcome the mental hurdle of the Pens.
In some ways I see us as the yin and yang with Toronto - us with solid defense (when we play responsible hockey) but offensively challenged vs the Leafs who are offensively gifted but defensively challenged.
All this said, I don't like some of our contracts (e.g. Filigno, Dubi, Savard) going forward and there's lots to think about with two big ones coming up..... so those are things Jarmo needs to consider
Bread-PLD-Bjork
Sonny-Wennberg-Cam
Filigno-Dubi-Andy
Jenner-Sedlak-Matty
Jones-Nuti
Z -Murray
JMFJ-Savard
Bob
Yeah, skew me for the lines but it's what rings my bell at the moment...and don't worry, I'm certain Torts doesn't see it this way.....Now
If Cam and Wenny can regain their form and Foligno can provide some offense, I think this group should secure a playoff spot. Oh, and if Bob stays healthy - physically and mentally. (More ifs than I would like). There's still a wide gap vs. TB and I still question whether we can overcome the mental hurdle of the Pens.
In some ways I see us as the yin and yang with Toronto - us with solid defense (when we play responsible hockey) but offensively challenged vs the Leafs who are offensively gifted but defensively challenged.
All this said, I don't like some of our contracts (e.g. Filigno, Dubi, Savard) going forward and there's lots to think about with two big ones coming up..... so those are things Jarmo needs to consider
Cowumbus
Registered User
Most teams have a good young core, it takes great players to set you above.
Just from our division:
NYR
Zibanejad, Miller, Buchnevich, Fast, Skjei, Vessey
Philly
Patrick, Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Courtirier, Konecny
Canes
Aho, Skinner, Pesce, Lindholm, Hanifin, Faulk
Devils
Bratt, Hischier, Butcher, Zacha, Wood, Severson
Caps/Pens have young guys too.
Realistically we have 1 proven top line guy, Panarin, and one proven top line D in Jones.
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