It's a tough spot, because you walk on egg shells here because if you say the wrong word about one of these guys here or you don't fluff the other guy enough, you get lawyered by some pigeon...so I'm pretending those people don't exist because I can talk to you like a human...
So Ovechkin gets locked up in the box and because he can't be separated from a star or semi-star center, Backstrom is now locked up too...there's a lot of scoring punch that's locked up because both players don't have a dynamic enough skill set to override an advanced scout against them. And the "throw the puck to Ovy on LW and have him carry it" was easy* to sniff out and he wasn't good enough to beat it often enough...
I don't want to paint in broad brushstrokes, but man, it takes a really, ahem, interesting perspective on the game to take Ovechkin over Crosby for any noteworthy length of time...it's one of those takes where you make a Jim-from-The-Office face and look at the camera kinda things...
A) Negative. Explained below. Or, I guess, above now...
Not really. Most of it actually mostly stood out as quite cherry picked, quite concending against others in this forum (for example quoted part above...) and mostly anecdotal evidence. For a setting example how you described both opponents: "Sid's most common opponent is an archrival...Philadelphia." and "Plays a completely ordinary Rangers team, 95 points", when in fact Philadelphia as well was a 95 points team... Or describing Backstrom as a star/superstar center. Ovechkin the first of these years had 112 TP and Backstrom was the Capitals 2nd best scorer with 60 TP. "throw the puck to Ovy on LW and have him carry it" actually worked just fine.
B-C) They both came in at the same time, it was pretty clear how it was gonna go from the get-go. It's a shame Crosby was cheapshotted, but that's the brakes...again, like I said above, Ovechkin's great, I know it's against the law to like both or whatever, but this is the position that you're put in and you have to make a binary vote...the pick is Crosby.
I like both guys. I also all the time expected and in the end was right that Crosby would be better in the long run. Crosby is the greatest player of his generation. But I was wrong in the short run. That Crosby set back a few years because of that high-ankle sprain (if I remember correctley...) is sad and without it he probably had been the better player 1-3 of thoose seasons. But he was injuried. And it affected his play. So Ovechkin was a better player during thoose years. And even if I at the beginning of every season expected Crosby to be the better player that season, he wasn´t during thoose 3 seasons. Just like I 97/98-99/00 expected Lindros to be the best player in the leauge, but he wasn´t. And that´s because of injuries as well. It´s part of the game.
Me and others saying Ovechkin was better for the three seasons, adding up to just below 1/4 of their careers - to me a quite noteworthy lengt of time as careers go, where their stats where...:
233 171G 160A 331TP (1.42PPG)
211 108G 176A 284TP (1.35PPG)
... and Ovechkin won 3 straight Pearsons and 2 Harts (and a runner up...)...
... doesn´t mean we all hate Crosby and can´t give him his do. When the whole elite hockey world doesn´t agree with ones opinion over such a long stretch, I think it´s a good time to look in the mirror and really think about why one has that opinion...
And I find it´s Crosby "side" in the debate that always seem really on the defensive side when especially either Malkin/Ovechkin ever being better is brought up. Finding excuses in every corner. I and most of us was watching the same games. Crosby wasn´t the player you describe most of thoose years. He was before and he was after. And Ovechkin had not yet fallen to the player you describe. He wasn´t as easy to stop as you paint it out. The "throw the puck to Ovy on LW and have him carry it" really was easy to sniff out, as you say, but he actually at that time still was good enough to beat it often enough...
And for the record, I´m not judging this on purely stats, but how I remember it was seen at the time. And what I saw at the time. But the stats are the thing easier to throw out there.
If you want to say there's a couple years where Ovechkin's better, I don't buy it personally, but I see what you see...it was otherworldly for a little bit in there, for sure...that has a ton of value...at the end of the day, you could stop Ovechkin when you had to...you couldn't stop Crosby. And it's not a "once upon a time" thing like Giguere or Thomas or Keith Primeau or what have you...it's just a reliable, whatever, fact...whatever you want to call it. And it matches the eye test, it makes total sense. At the deeper view, it makes perfect sense. And it was very predictable. I remember sitting with a group of my players in 2007 getting lambasted because I said "there's no way Ovechkin will ever win a Cup on a team where he's the best player...in fact, he'll probably never win one at all."
Actually, most of the time in the years we´re talking about teams could stop Washington. Not Ovechkin. Even the famous Montreal-series Ovechkin came away with 7GP 5G 5A 10TP. Winning 2 out of thoose games almost single handed. Crosby and the Penguins lost against that same Montreal the next round. Crosby had 1G 4A 5TP in thoose 7GP, but it´s Ovechkin series that´s always brought up. It´s the double standard that´s annoying. In some twisted way an argument will be made that Ovechkin couldn´t live up to guiding his team out of the 2nd round, when he actually was the one showing up every year.
And if Washington had instead made a few adjustments and given that team a few more years, I´m on the side thinking they actually probably walk away with a Cup there already. Blowing up the game plan in Washington after three loosing years, when the 1st year was manys first PO:s, second year was against the future Cup winner and the third year wasa against a Halak playing a few series out of his mind to me stanads as probably one of the dumbest decisions in the after 05-lockout NHL... Just like Trotz finally loosing his "only RS trainer", thoose teams in the end would have had the puck luck to make Boudreau loose that title. I hope Nashville, Toronto and Tampa Bay all give their teams patience right now for example. And even if so, most probable 1-3 of them won´t win the Cup anyways - because the luck with injuries and puck bounces ain´t something you can add in to the equation. But it´s the right way to go according to me if one want´s to give thoose teams the best chance. Washingtons chance for a Cup the following years dissapeared as soon as the the team changed system after that Montreal-series.
And I said that with no disrespect to the talent or skill of the player, but it's an easy* read from a coaching perspective and advanced scouting perspective. Whether players have the physical ability to handle it (spoiler: they did) was another story...but he's not terribly hard to coach against. Crosby is a real tough match.
So I got run through the ringer that night and for a while thereafter...until one by one, over the years, I'd get the texts or some of my old players would see me at the rink and go "wow, ya know, I can't believe it...dude hasn't even been out of the 2nd round all this time..."
I wouldn´t judge a player on team accomplishments, but feel free to. But I can´t see how any exit of the PO:s thoose 3 years falls on Ovechkin. That Ovechkin didn´t have a Malkin to fall back on when he was outcoached can´t be blamed on him...
Now, naturally, he won a Cup last year as the third best player during the run...but he did a hell of a job finally maturing his game and helping put his team in a position for success. And I appreciate how he was able to mold his game, make those adjustments but still deliver the goods...led the playoffs in goals, power play goals, shots...all the Ovechkin stuff, except working within the team concept. That's a sign of greatness. When you don't have to sacrifice something to make it work. And he did it, and he deserves a lot of credit for it. I think pretty plainly not a Conn Smythe, but, what can you do...fun stories get them: 2016, 2014, 2011, 2006, etc. that's the media for ya...
Agreed here. I didn´t see Ovechkin being the best or 2nd best player on his team last spring. Even if probably most important. Just as many other Conn Smythes, it´s the flavour of the year. One of the trophys that should mean most, but many years seems hollow. Would personally add 07 to that list.
Quickly on other wingers: Howe more complete, but less overall technical skill probably. Hull is Ovechkin but with a more dynamic skill set that encompassed more ice and more ways to dissect the attack zone. Richard does little for me at this level, questionably top-20 player. Lafleur does little for me as well. Jagr is a little different animal than the rest, definitely a more dynamic skill set than Ovechkin, much better vision and head for the game...but other issues (that is, self-inflicted) limited his ability.
No argument against here. I would place Ovehckin just behind Bobby Hull. Ovechkin by peak, but Hulls peak was just so much longer.
