When Did You Realize Crosby Was Better Than Ovechkin?

[JackSlater]

B) I read the question "better" as "better player", not necessarily more career accomplishments in a finite window. There was never a time where Ovechkin was a better player than Crosby, certainly. There was a time where Ovechkin had more hardware I'm sure.

This is a point that I find quite important but often ignored by many here when comparing players. Players are not their resumes and player comparisons are not the same as resume comparisons.

I think that Crosby vs Ovechkin as a comparison is much more fluid than something definite in my head. The biggest shift came after 2010 when Ovechkin became much less dynamic and carried the puck less often. I'm open to Ovechkin overtaking Crosby again however depending on how things go from here on.

 

[seventieslord]

A) My "rankings" don't change with the weather.
B) I read the question "better" as "better player", not necessarily more career accomplishments in a finite window. There was never a time where Ovechkin was a better player than Crosby, certainly. There was a time where Ovechkin had more hardware I'm sure.

I get what you're saying, and I don't entirely disagree, but are you sure, that in 0708, 0809, and the first 50 games of the 2010 season, Ovechkin wasn't playing at a higher level than Crosby? He was practically unstoppable in that period. it's no shame for Crosby to be behind him at that time, he's two calendar years younger than him. Ovechkin is a near generational player and was at his physical and statistical Peak.

 

[seventieslord]

I think that by the end of the 2009 season, although I prefer to Crosby to Ovechkin I was in a position to admit Ovechkin was better at that moment, but I did not ever stop believing Crosby would have the better career, mainly because of the age difference and how much upward trajectory he still had in front of him compared to Ovechkin.

 

[sr edler]

I've never been particularly interested or emotionally involved in the Crosby vs Ovechkin debate, but there were only 4 points between them when they both were rookies in the 05–06 season, Ovechkin being 4 points ahead but also being almost 2 years older. Both of their teams were pretty bad too, but perhaps Crosby had some better mentoring on offense (?).

Anyways, if a center and a winger are that close in points you usually go with the center, unless the winger happens to have a clearly better overall game, which Ovi didn't have. Ovi had his physical game/hitting (which he lost after having pushed Brian Campbell into the boards or something) in 09–10, but I don't think that's enough to push him ahead of Crosby even though Crosby's never been a world beater himself defensively.

So... I would say, perhaps already in 05–06?

It's not that big of a deal for me though, just like the HHOF isn't a big deal to me anymore.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

And when was that? 06/07? You could say that's when Ovechkin was not being Ovechkin for a brief.

that was the 2011 season.

i mean yeah, the ovechkin of 2013 to present is still a hall of fame level player, probably even an upper echelon hall of famer. but when we look back and think ovechkin 20 years from now we will remember the force of nature, destroying everyone 2006-2010 ovechkin, who averaged 54 goals and 106 points a year, won two harts with a very strong runner up, and only once finished outside of the top 3 in scoring (and of course never outside of the top 4 in goals), while domination the LW position in a bobby hull-like manner during what in retrospect was a golden age for the LW position.

so that's what i mean by ovechkin not really being ovechkin anymore. if the first five years ovechkin lasted for ten years before slowing down, and still won his cup/debatable smythe last year, i don't think there would be any separation between him and crosby; this hypothetical ovie might even be ahead.

 

[Thenameless]

I actually don't think Crosby earned the distinction as being the clear cut best player until the 2013 season but he undoubtedly earned his place in the conversation after the 06/07 season.

I know you're the Crosby fan here, but I think it was even earlier than that. After that early, deadly Ovechkin peak, Crosby really stood out. After the Cup, the Gold, and even the Richard (which one would not expect with Ovechkin in the league) he was pretty solidly the best by about 2010-2011.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I get what you're saying, and I don't entirely disagree, but are you sure, that in 0708, 0809, and the first 50 games of the 2010 season, Ovechkin wasn't playing at a higher level than Crosby? He was practically unstoppable in that period. it's no shame for Crosby to be behind him at that time, he's two calendar years younger than him. Ovechkin is a near generati player and was at his physical and statistical Peak.

Similarly, it's no shame for Ovechkin to be behind him at any time. I respect what Ovechkin did and does and will do...he's great at the thing (or two?) that he did or does, but I just don't find this player to be as valuable to the team on the ice as I do Crosby. In the same vein as to why I have like 200 d-men listed in my top-120 for that project we're doing - the more valuable players get the more favorable spots because they're more valuable. What Crosby doesn't bring in shooting acumen, is grossly overshadowed by what else he brings...

 

[streitz]

In 2005.

 

[daver]

I know you're the Crosby fan here, but I think it was even earlier than that. After that early, deadly Ovechkin peak, Crosby really stood out. After the Cup, the Gold, and even the Richard (which one would not expect with Ovechkin in the league) he was pretty solidly the best by about 2010-2011.

For sure, probably in retrospect we can say that 10/11 was the year even if Crosby didn't play a full season.

 

[Sentinel]

When I saw the results of the Top 100 Players project.

 

[psycat]

I've never been particularly interested or emotionally involved in the Crosby vs Ovechkin debate, but there were only 4 points between them when they both were rookies in the 05–06 season, Ovechkin being 4 points ahead but also being almost 2 years older. Both of their teams were pretty bad too, but perhaps Crosby had some better mentoring on offense (?).

Anyways, if a center and a winger are that close in points you usually go with the center, unless the winger happens to have a clearly better overall game, which Ovi didn't have. Ovi had his physical game/hitting (which he lost after having pushed Brian Campbell into the boards or something) in 09–10, but I don't think that's enough to push him ahead of Crosby even though Crosby's never been a world beater himself defensively.

So... I would say, perhaps already in 05–06?

It's not that big of a deal for me though, just like the HHOF isn't a big deal to me anymore.

Then again most wingers are not in, serious, contention for greatest goalscorer of all time.

 

[seventieslord]

Similarly, it's no shame for Ovechkin to be behind him at any time. I respect what Ovechkin did and does and will do...he's great at the thing (or two?) that he did or does, but I just don't find this player to be as valuable to the team on the ice as I do Crosby. In the same vein as to why I have like 200 d-men listed in my top-120 for that project we're doing - the more valuable players get the more favorable spots because they're more valuable. What Crosby doesn't bring in shooting acumen, is grossly overshadowed by what else he brings...

see, if you were talking about post 2011 Ovechkin I completely agree, but it seems like your description of him, his style of play, and his value Vis-a-vis Crosby is based entirely on that period and projecting it backwards, forgetting in the process how dominant he was prior to that.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Maybe 2012 after 2 consecutive healthy seasons when he didn't even approach being the best player in the league anymore. The only thing holding Crosby back was health.

Definitely by 2013. Funny because I didn't have a big problem with Ovechkin's Hart (based on games played and team factors), but it was very obvious that Crosby was a significantly better player by then, as he maintained his per-game dominance for parts of 3 seasons (and 3/4 of the latest season) by that point.

In retrospect, of course, Crosby was clearly better since 2010, but at the time, his partial seasons did have question marks around them.

 

[Voight]

I've never really considered him better in the grand scheme of things. Certain years it was without question he was better but I never saw him as someone who was better than the GR8.

 

[Voight]

He's always been the more complete hockey player by a good bit. But,

2010-11.

That is the most dominant half season stretch I've seen since Mario. Sadly it was ended by a cheap shot by a slug of a player (and subsequent poor handling by team doctors who misdiagnosed his injuries). Probably the biggest shame of 87's career was that he wasn't able to finish such an impressive start to a year.

Crosby was just on another level. Like you have the universe, and worlds. Sid was the universe and everyone else was just living in it. Was on pace to be on the ice for 100 even strength goals which is nuts. Was fantastic in the dot. Was a terror up and down the ice.

Again, it wasn't a cheap shot at all.

 

[feffan]

A) My "rankings" don't change with the weather.
B) I read the question "better" as "better player", not necessarily more career accomplishments in a finite window. There was never a time where Ovechkin was a better player than Crosby, certainly. There was a time where Ovechkin had more hardware I'm sure.

Similarly, it's no shame for Ovechkin to be behind him at any time. I respect what Ovechkin did and does and will do...he's great at the thing (or two?) that he did or does, but I just don't find this player to be as valuable to the team on the ice as I do Crosby. In the same vein as to why I have like 200 d-men listed in my top-120 for that project we're doing - the more valuable players get the more favorable spots because they're more valuable. What Crosby doesn't bring in shooting acumen, is grossly overshadowed by what else he brings...

A) It seems to me you´re actually talking about what these two players became and not what they where at the time. So your rankings or opinions actually seems to change with weather. Because Ovechkin 05/06-09/10 certainly wasn´t just "great at the thing (or two?) that he did or does". That he since then taken on being more old Brett Hull doesn´t change the fact that he was Bobby Hull at least his first 5 seasons. Actually probably Bobby Hull+ during his season 3-5. He could score in as many ways as anyone I´ve seen. He was a better playmaker than his older self by far. And as soon he was on the ice he had that Lindros/Forsberg vibe, that almost directley tilting the ice by just stepping on from the bench. Even if closer to the reason Lindros did it than Forsberg. He hit everything in sight and scared the bejesus out of opponents there for a while. Creating a great amount of giveaways/turnovers. The kind of player that you really didn´t want your own players to hit, because it just seemed he responded with a one-man-show-goal or goal chance.

B-C) And I agree with the love for defencemen (and centers...). I think it´s ridicilous that Lidstrom for example didn´t come away with a few Harts. And there are very few wingers that reach as high as Ovechkin on my ranking as well. But to me there was no question at the time during especially thoose 3 years that Ovechkin didn´t "tilt the ice" more than Crosby. And even if awards ain´t everything, this was 3 straight years he was viewed as the best player in the game by his fellow players. And at the same time judged more valuable to his team than Crosby in Hart voting. Strange choices has been made with the Lester Pearson and Hart, but not 3 straight years...
About "finite window". The thread is about when people tought/realised he was better. That is, if I don´t misunderstand the english language, asking for a finite point and therefore period of time from the start of their careers.

And I´m a little bit dissapointed with the condescending tone with "There was a time where Ovechkin had more hardware I'm sure." and mentioned "great at the thing (or two?) that he did or does". Seems unobjective and frankly rather biased.

I have yet to see any kind of case for Crosby being a better player during Ovechkins 3 peak seasons. If you wanna make one, I´m all ears.

Would also be interesting to here where you have other great wingers on your rankings. H0we, Hull, Richard, Lafleur, Jagr... Or is it just one particular winger who´s not your taste?

Maybe 2012 after 2 consecutive healthy seasons when he didn't even approach being the best player in the league anymore. The only thing holding Crosby back was health.

Definitely by 2013. Funny because I didn't have a big problem with Ovechkin's Hart (based on games played and team factors), but it was very obvious that Crosby was a significantly better player by then, as he maintained his per-game dominance for parts of 3 seasons (and 3/4 of the latest season) by that point.

In retrospect, of course, Crosby was clearly better since 2010, but at the time, his partial seasons did have question marks around them.

Agree completley here. And great example of what thoose 2 awars stand for. Crosby was obvious the better player that year, but I can see how Ovechkins season led to the Hart votes. Even if I would have had Crosby get that one as well.

 

[Michael Farkas]

see, if you were talking about post 2011 Ovechkin I completely agree, but it seems like your description of him, his style of play, and his value Vis-a-vis Crosby is based entirely on that period and projecting it backwards, forgetting in the process how dominant he was prior to that.

I hear you. Tough to forget though. Dude was a monster, and he faced the team I like about half a million times...I've seen him live a ton too, hell, I was there when he did that "my stick is too hot" celebration haha...in the grand scheme of the game, he is more limited compared to Crosby...that's been the case since they both stepped foot in the NHL...Ovechkin plays in a fraction of the rink that Crosby does, he offers a fraction of the defense that Crosby does, he offers a fraction of the puck distribution that Crosby does, he offers less in terms of dynamic puck carrying across multiple lines, he offers a less dynamic skill set, he offers less adaptability, he offers less to roster management (Ovechkin needs both a star center and defensive support...Crosby offers both within himself [as he babysits kids like Guentzel and Sheary] and offers the star power when he's turned loose [letting Dupuis handle F1 defense responsibility to allow the Pens to carry their "island hockey" nonsense late-Bylsma])...

This year, he really ought to be getting some legit Selke consideration (which I really didn't think he deserved in years past, except for in the playoffs...where the Selke, of course, doesn't exist)...

It's a tough spot, because you walk on egg shells here because if you say the wrong word about one of these guys here or you don't fluff the other guy enough, you get lawyered by some pigeon...so I'm pretending those people don't exist because I can talk to you like a human...

Really watch those games. I mean, really watch them. Talking about those Caps playoff games, in his prime...watch that player. Count the successful NZ passes that lead to clean zone entries, count the passes in the attack zone that cross the net line successfully, count the successful backchecks, count the lanes he successfully crosses lanes after receipt of a pass outside of his own line...he played the game in a box that he made for himself. Of course, he's a ****** freak, and he could still make it work...that's why it's a discussion at all, he's one of the greatest players I've ever seen, don't get me wrong. But he put himself in a box too much to fight out of in a seven game series...and Nick Backstrom wasn't quite good enough to make the space for him because of skating, strength limitations when the game's got tight. So Ovechkin gets locked up in the box and because he can't be separated from a star or semi-star center, Backstrom is now locked up too...there's a lot of scoring punch that's locked up because both players don't have a dynamic enough skill set to override an advanced scout against them. And the "throw the puck to Ovy on LW and have him carry it" was easy* to sniff out and he wasn't good enough to beat it often enough...

To be clear, Crosby has a graphic instance of this as well...2013 ECF Penguins, Bruins. This is where headmanning the puck died. Penguins isolated players with stretch passes and put them at or behind the last layer of defense, force the defense to hustle back, then they control the tempo in the attack, make seam passes or make organic rush chances and whammy, they'd score a million goals a game...well, Boston snuffed that out by just sliding the layer back and make them stretch pass into the second layer...Bylsma was out-matched and did little to off-set this...Crosby died on the vine because he wasn't good enough to beat Bergeron AND Chara...he can do one, but he can't do both. The Penguins scored two goals in the series. The dynamic skill set, the ability to play with different players, in different lanes, in different layers, with different caveats and wrinkles...that makes you tough to stop...historically, Crosby offers that over Ovechkin, and it's not by that small of a degree either...

One team that seemed to always have a plan for Ovechkin and a guy with the positional integrity to do something about it was the New York Rangers and Dan Girardi of all players...they didn't mind that matchup so much because Girardi (and Tortorella) saw this same thing when they went to the tape...

2009 ECQF (peak Ovechkin - 56 goals, 36 EV goals to lead the league, MVP): Plays a completely ordinary Rangers team, 95 points, 33 ROW (Wsh: 46)...but they had a plan and a player to execute it...
Game 3 he gets his first ES point, it's a secondary assist (which probably count more for him than Sid, because, ya know...whatever...). He tacks on another primary ES assist later in the 1st in a 4-0 win.
Game 4, he picks up a third period goal in a 2-1 loss.
Game 5 - Scores a garbage time goal with 20 minutes left in 4-0 win.
Nothing at ES in games 1 or 2, nothing in games 6 or 7. And nothing of note in game 5 either. 2 goals, 2 assists at ES in the series.

7 games - 4 ES points

2011 ECQF
Game 1 - Game tying goal in the 3rd.
Game 3 - Ties it at one, late 2nd.
Game 5 - 2-0 goal in the 2nd.

5 games - 3 ES goals/points.

2012 ECSF
First ES point comes in game 4 of the series...the 1-0 goal.
Game 5 - Primary on the 1-1 goal in the 2nd.

7 games - 2 ES points.

2013 ECQF
No ES points in the series. His team is shutout completely in games 6 and 7.

7 games - 0 ES points.

2015 Patrick Division Final
Game 1 - Primary on last second GWG
Game 2 - 2-3 goal in the 3rd.
Game 7 - 1-0 goal in the 1st.

7 games - 3 ES points.

There are drips and drabs where any player gets pushed to the margin...Sid in the 2013 ECF vs. Boston (0 ES points), in 2009 SCF vs. Detroit (2 ES points). Notably, later rounds against tougher opponents, but still...it happens...

Sid's most common opponent is an archrival...Philadelphia.

2008 ECF
Game 1 - 2-2 goal in the 1st.
Game 2 - Primary on EN
Game 3 - Primary on 2-0 goal
Game 5 - Primary on 3-0 goal

5 games - 4 ES points

2009 ECQF
Game 1 - Assist on 4-0 goal in the 3rd
Game 2 - Assist on 1-1 goal in 2nd
Game 3 - Primary on 2-2 goal
Game 4 - 1-0 goal in the 2nd
Game 6 - GWG late 2nd, EN goal

6 games - 5 ES points, but you can lose one that didn't really have an impact.

2012 ECQF
Game 1 - 1-0 goal, assist on 3-0 goal in the 1st
Game 2 - 1-0 goal, primary on 3-1 goal in 1st
Game 4 - 3-3 goal

6 weird games - 5 ES points

2018 Patrick Division Semi-Final
Game 1 - 5-0, 6-0, 7-0 goals
Game 3 - 1-0 goal, Primary on 4-0 goal in 2nd
Game 4 - 4-0 goal in 2nd
Game 5 - Primary on 2-1 goal in the 2nd
Game 6 - 1-1 goal, assist on 3-4 goal in 2nd, primary on GWG late 3rd

6 games - 10 ES points, though you could easily lose 4 of them as they lacked impact.

Then after all that, you factor in how much more there is to the game outside the top of the circle in and all the things I mentioned before...I don't want to paint in broad brushstrokes, but man, it takes a really, ahem, interesting perspective on the game to take Ovechkin over Crosby for any noteworthy length of time...it's one of those takes where you make a Jim-from-The-Office face and look at the camera kinda things...

You don't control the matchup on the power play, nor do you control when you get them, so the team's that are gunning for you ought to have an answer for the best player on the other side. How are the New England Patriots so successful? They remove the biggest threat on the other side...how well does that really work though? Well, they've played in every single Conference Final game this decade, that's ridiculous...the guy's that can't be pinned down are the most special ones...notably, perhaps the best QB in history, Peyton Manning won three straight AFC Championship games vs. New England. Special moniker for a reason, tough to keep down. Sid's on that next level, Ovechkin not quite...but there's still story left to be written...

 

[Michael Farkas]

A) It seems to me you´re actually talking about what these two players became and not what they where at the time. So your rankings or opinions actually seems to change with weather. Because Ovechkin 05/06-09/10 certainly wasn´t just "great at the thing (or two?) that he did or does". That he since then taken on being more old Brett Hull doesn´t change the fact that he was Bobby Hull at least his first 5 seasons. Actually probably Bobby Hull+ during his season 3-5. He could score in as many ways as anyone I´ve seen. He was a better playmaker than his older self by far. And as soon he was on the ice he had that Lindros/Forsberg vibe, that almost directley tilting the ice by just stepping on from the bench. Even if closer to the reason Lindros did it than Forsberg. He hit everything in sight and scared the bejesus out of opponents there for a while. Creating a great amount of giveaways/turnovers. The kind of player that you really didn´t want your own players to hit, because it just seemed he responded with a one-man-show-goal or goal chance.

B-C) And I agree with the love for defencemen (and centers...). I think it´s ridicilous that Lidstrom for example didn´t come away with a few Harts. And there are very few wingers that reach as high as Ovechkin on my ranking as well. But to me there was no question at the time during especially thoose 3 years that Ovechkin didn´t "tilt the ice" more than Crosby. And even if awards ain´t everything, this was 3 straight years he was viewed as the best player in the game by his fellow players. And at the same time judged more valuable to his team than Crosby in Hart voting. Strange choices has been made with the Lester Pearson and Hart, but not 3 straight years...
About "finite window". The thread is about when people tought/realised he was better. That is, if I don´t misunderstand the english language, asking for a finite point and therefore period of time from the start of their careers.

And I´m a little bit dissapointed with the condescending tone with "There was a time where Ovechkin had more hardware I'm sure." and mentioned "great at the thing (or two?) that he did or does". Seems unobjective and frankly rather biased.

I have yet to see any kind of case for Crosby being a better player during Ovechkins 3 peak seasons. If you wanna make one, I´m all ears.

Would also be interesting to here where you have other great wingers on your rankings. H0we, Hull, Richard, Lafleur, Jagr... Or is it just one particular winger who´s not your taste?



Agree completley here. And great example of what thoose 2 awars stand for. Crosby was obvious the better player that year, but I can see how Ovechkins season led to the Hart votes. Even if I would have had Crosby get that one as well.

A) Negative. Explained below. Or, I guess, above now...
B-C) They both came in at the same time, it was pretty clear how it was gonna go from the get-go. It's a shame Crosby was cheapshotted, but that's the brakes...again, like I said above, Ovechkin's great, I know it's against the law to like both or whatever, but this is the position that you're put in and you have to make a binary vote...the pick is Crosby. If you want to say there's a couple years where Ovechkin's better, I don't buy it personally, but I see what you see...it was otherworldly for a little bit in there, for sure...that has a ton of value...at the end of the day, you could stop Ovechkin when you had to...you couldn't stop Crosby. And it's not a "once upon a time" thing like Giguere or Thomas or Keith Primeau or what have you...it's just a reliable, whatever, fact...whatever you want to call it. And it matches the eye test, it makes total sense. At the deeper view, it makes perfect sense. And it was very predictable. I remember sitting with a group of my players in 2007 getting lambasted because I said "there's no way Ovechkin will ever win a Cup on a team where he's the best player...in fact, he'll probably never win one at all."

And I said that with no disrespect to the talent or skill of the player, but it's an easy* read from a coaching perspective and advanced scouting perspective. Whether players have the physical ability to handle it (spoiler: they did) was another story...but he's not terribly hard to coach against. Crosby is a real tough match.

So I got run through the ringer that night and for a while thereafter...until one by one, over the years, I'd get the texts or some of my old players would see me at the rink and go "wow, ya know, I can't believe it...dude hasn't even been out of the 2nd round all this time..."

Now, naturally, he won a Cup last year as the third best player during the run...but he did a hell of a job finally maturing his game and helping put his team in a position for success. And I appreciate how he was able to mold his game, make those adjustments but still deliver the goods...led the playoffs in goals, power play goals, shots...all the Ovechkin stuff, except working within the team concept. That's a sign of greatness. When you don't have to sacrifice something to make it work. And he did it, and he deserves a lot of credit for it. I think pretty plainly not a Conn Smythe, but, what can you do...fun stories get them: 2016, 2014, 2011, 2006, etc. that's the media for ya...

Quickly on other wingers: Howe more complete, but less overall technical skill probably. Hull is Ovechkin but with a more dynamic skill set that encompassed more ice and more ways to dissect the attack zone. Richard does little for me at this level, questionably top-20 player. Lafleur does little for me as well. Jagr is a little different animal than the rest, definitely a more dynamic skill set than Ovechkin, much better vision and head for the game...but other issues (that is, self-inflicted) limited his ability.

 

[TheMule93]

definitely 2011-2012 was when Crosby leapt Ovechkin

 

[The Panther]

definitely 2011-2012 was when Crosby leapt Ovechkin

Yeah, but what about 2014-15? Was Crosby any better? I'd say definitely not.

In 2015-16 they're close, maybe slight edge to Crosby.

2016-17 goes to Crosby.

2017-18 again is really close, maybe slight edge to Ovechkin.

This year even again.

 

[seventieslord]

Yeah, but what about 2014-15? Was Crosby any better? I'd say definitely not.

In 2015-16 they're close, maybe slight edge to Crosby.

2016-17 goes to Crosby.

2017-18 again is really close, maybe slight edge to Ovechkin.

This year even again.

I just can't imagine someone watching the contemporary versions of these two players and then posting this ^^^

 

[Asheville]

Of the 72 playoff games that comprise their three Cup runs together:

Crosby: 29 G - 48 A - 77 PTS
Malkin: 30 G - 52 A - 82

Not certain Crosby is even better than Malkin.

 

[streitz]

Of the 72 playoff games that comprise their three Cup runs together:

Crosby: 29 G - 48 A - 77 PTS
Malkin: 30 G - 52 A - 82

Not certain Crosby is even better than Malkin.

What if Malkin is also better then Ovechkin?

 

[daver]

I must say that their 2009 playoff series gave a pretty good indicator of their nutshell descriptions as players. OV was a monster offensively with a bull in a china shop mentality, Crosby could match, and eventually surpass, OV's offensive value with a more well rounded and cerebral offensive game while being defensively responsible, if not effective; a must given his role as #1C.

 

[GlitchMarner]

I just can't imagine someone watching the contemporary versions of these two players and then posting this ^^^

I don't know... I think you can argue Ovechkin was better or on par in 2015 and last season (during the RS anyway), but those are two of his best three seasons since 2010 and two of Crosby's worst three healthy seasons.

This season their scoring stats look comparable, but Crosby has a decided advantage in terms of advanced stats and may have taken his defensive game to another level.

Conversely, I think there is a decided advantage for Ovechkin in the 2009 season. Despite all the talk his game wasn't as complete, the advanced stats are quite firmly in his favor back then.

Hart voting supports all of these assertions (not that that's always perfect).