When did Malkin establish himself as the 3rd best player of his generation?

[Uncle Scrooge]

For me personally it was the 11-12 WHC, i wasn't able to follow the NHL as much as i liked the few years prior. No matter what you think of the WHC all great players have played there and i've never seen someone dominate like Geno did. It was like a cheat code, he would go coast to coast through entire team and get a scoring chance. He looked like the fastest, most skilled and physically intimidating player on the ice all at the same time.

During that NHL season he scored 50 goals and 109 points in 75 games mostly without Crosby, for comparison sake Hall and MacKinnon who had to lead their teams like Malkin and were dominating the league had 93 and 97 points in pretty much same amount of games played. Neal is a good goalscorer but he's only had 30 goals one other time than this season - and Malkin turned him into a 40 goalscorer.

Pens also finished 4th in the regular season - with Sid playing 22 games.

I think Geno was at his peak during that time, and i don't think i've ever seen him in that type of shape after - he's also only played over 70 games once since then which is a shame.

So regardless if you think it's 2009 or 2012 or something in between, i don't think there's an argument for later than 2012.

 

[Neuf]

2009 in ink, 2012 in blood

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Yeah from 2007-14 they were pretty much handing it off to each other each year. Crosby 07, Ovechkin 08, Malkin 09, Ovechkin 10, Malkin 12, Crosby 13, 14. 10-11 was weird since Ov had a down year and both Crosby/Malkin were hurt.

11 was not weird. Crosby was easily the best player in the world

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I'm not sure he is or ever was.

I guess from like 2007-2012 he probably was in the Top 3. But of this generation overall he's not in my top 3.


Crosby
Ovechkin
Karlsson


That would be my Top 3. Had Karlsson and the Sens won that Game 7 double OT against the Pens 2 years ago and went on to win the cup with Karlsson getting the Smythe it wouldn't even be a discussion.

A forward of Malkin's caliber makes a significantly larger impact than Karlsson. You can have an opinion, but that opinion doesn't have to be right.

I love EK, but the guy has been outscored at 5v5 over his career. That isn't going to happen with someone as good as Malkin.

 

[abo9]

I still can't believe the Pens got Crosby AND Malkin. Still can't believe Ovy, Crosby and Malkin ended up in 2 consecutive drafts. I was like 10 and it set the bar high for future drafts !!!

 

[22FUTON9]

Yeah I just don’t see an argument for EK over Malkin

 

[nowhereman]

People who constantly complain about Malkin not getting respect, and blaming Toews for that, are just showing their pure ignorance and utter stupidity. Yes, Malkin should have been included in some meaningless list that has no baring on the real world. And you know what, Toews should have been on there too. It's not as if Toews sat at #100, while Malkin was #101. But I understand that none of you have been around hockey long enough to know who most of the players on that list are, so now that Toews appears to be on the back side of his career, you think he's an easy target.

Just remember, you discount Toews because he was the best player on a "stacked team" that won 3 Cups (yet never complain about Kane being on the list, despite Toews being better than he is. Add Sundin, Shanahan, Kurri, Francis, Clarke, Chelios, Conacher, Datsyuk, Kennedy, etc), but stay quiet while Malkin plays behind the best player in the game, who will end up being Top 5 of all time. Keep moving the goal posts though

Aww, somebody’s feelings got hurt. Turn down your emotion and take your baseless insults and ramblings elsewhere, champ.

No one is saying Toews is the reason no one respects Malkin. It’s just that in the early 2010s, there was a ridiculous notion permeating the NHL media that defensively-minded two-way centers with a “winning pedigree” (ie playing on a great team) were the key to success. Suddenly, guys like Toews, Bergeron and Kopitar were being propped up over legends like Crosby, OV and Malkin. Toews was just the poster boy for this nonesense, with knuckleheads like Jeff O’Neil going on about how he was “better than Crosby”. It was a fad that I can assure you was not the general sentiment of eras past. No one thought Guy Carbonneau was better than Lindros because he was winning Cups and Selkes.

And I’m not even sure what youre getting at by name-dropping Clarke, Conacher or Kurri here. Do you honestly think that Toews is comparable to those players?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

He's not, Toews is

 

[Laineux]

Aww, somebody’s feelings got hurt. Turn down your emotion and take your baseless insults and ramblings elsewhere, champ.

No one is saying Toews is the reason no one respects Malkin. It’s just that in the early 2010s, there was a ridiculous notion permeating the NHL media that defensively-minded two-way centers with a “winning pedigree” (ie playing on a great team) were the key to success. Suddenly, guys like Toews, Bergeron and Kopitar were being propped up over legends like Crosby, OV and Malkin. Toews was just the poster boy for this nonesense, with knuckleheads like Jeff O’Neil going on about how he was “better than Crosby”. It was a fad that I can assure you was not the general sentiment of eras past. No one thought Guy Carbonneau was better than Lindros because he was winning Cups and Selkes.

And I’m not even sure what youre getting at by name-dropping Clarke, Conacher or Kurri here. Do you honestly think that Toews is comparable to those players?

Selke winners tend to also win Stanley Cups. Funnily enough Toews and Bergeron both have much better +/- and rel gf% over their careers than Ovechkin or Malkin. For some reason, a lot of people seem very offended by the idea that players with inferior point totals could be impacting the goal differential as much as the best point getters...

I'm not suggesting that those players are better than Ovie and Malkin. I just don't think it's as black and white. I think that there's a lot of truth to the claim that two-way Selke centers effect the game as much as the best of them.

 

[seabass11]

February 12th, 2010.

 

[wasunder]

In terms of players like EK, Kane, Toews(I admittedly fell for the hype train) etc. I think generally it's in reference to a shorter time frame, more so year to year.

ex. Kane had a lot more impact in 2015-2016, and in 2016-2017. He was certainly the better player at that period(accommodating for injuries) but looking at a larger time frame like 2007-today, I have a hard time believing anyone would take someone besides Sid and Ovie over Malkin.

 

[Tweed]

A) 6 games in.

 

[Binister]

Hes not, Toews is better, just ask the people who voted on the Top 100 NHlers of all time

I saw what you did there #TOP100Joke

 

[Riddum]

why do you hate crosby and OV so much

I don't hate them. I just know they're overrated. A healthy Malkin is better than both.

Aside from his rookie season, everytime Malkin has played 70+ games, he has thoroughly outshined both. Hell, he did it again last year and people still claim Crosby and Ovi were better than him last year lol.

People act as if Malkin doesn't have 2 Art Ross under his belt.

 

[nowhereman]

I don't hate them. I just know they're overrated. A healthy Malkin is better than both.

Aside from his rookie season, everytime Malkin has played 70+ games, he has thoroughly outshined both. Hell, he did it again last year and people still claim Crosby and Ovi were better than him last year lol.

People act as if Malkin doesn't have 2 Art Ross under his belt.

Injuries are not a card you should be playing here, especially with Sidney Crosby. Malkin may have two Art Ross trophies but let's not pretend that Crosby wouldn't have almost double his trophy case if not for injuries. It's pretty disingenuous to create this arbitrary stat where Malkin "thoroughly outshines" both Crosby and Malkin, as long as he plays more than 70+ games, since Malkin never lost a Hart or Art Ross as a results of being injured. It just so happens that he did very well in those three seasons where he played close to 82 games (even though Ovechkin won a Hart in 2 out of those 3 seasons where he was being "outshined" and Crosby was injured in the other) but being healthy wouldn't have changed anything.

Even in a parallel universe, where injuries never happen, Malkin is still behind Sid and OV (and quite a ways behind Sid). Malkin proved his peak was comparable to Ovechkin and Crosby but he hasn't proven he could sustain his play as well or as long as the other two.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

For me, I was really starting to think this around 2009, when he had that insane Stanley Cup Run. It got cemented for me in 2012, after he blew out his knee in 10-11 and said he would come back and win the scoring title and he did exactly that.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I don't hate them. I just know they're overrated. A healthy Malkin is better than both.

Aside from his rookie season, everytime Malkin has played 70+ games, he has thoroughly outshined both. Hell, he did it again last year and people still claim Crosby and Ovi were better than him last year lol.

People act as if Malkin doesn't have 2 Art Ross under his belt.

Sid and OV are overrated now
HF boards clearly has a wide spectrum of opinions lol

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

For me, I was really starting to think this around 2009, when he had that insane Stanley Cup Run. It got cemented for me in 2012, after he blew out his knee in 10-11 and said he would come back and win the scoring title and he did exactly that.

Where did he say that?

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Where did he say that?

He made some kind of remark about it in an interview before the '11-'12 season.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Duncan Keith is the third best player after the lockout.

I'd put Toews ahead of Malkin, also.

So....top five?

 

[Tweed]

Duncan Keith is the third best player after the lockout.

I'd put Toews ahead of Malkin, also.

So....top five?

This is a perfect example of why whenever I read anything you post, I know that if I believe the opposite of what you've said, there's a real good chance I'm not wrong.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

This is a perfect example of why whenever I read anything you post, I know that if I believe the opposite of what you've said, there's a real good chance I'm not wrong.

Keith at least has some sort of case. Been a top 5 d all of Malkin career, two Norris and a Conn smythe, 3 cups, 2 Olympic golds.

 

[fashi13]

He had two 100+ point seasons, a Calder and a Smythe by the end of the 2009 season. The Smythe sealed the deal.

This.

 

[Bonzo111]

I remember seeing a lot of posts on this board and other websites where, prior to the Pens' back-2-back titles, many were claiming Toews was the 3rd best player of his generation by virtue of his 3 cups, or even Carey Price who was playing out of his mind. Some even mentioned Karlsson and even Lidstrom. After Kane had his career year in 2016, people started to mention him as the 3rd best due to his accomplishments.

2 weeks come Monday

 

[Tweed]

Keith at least has some sort of case. Been a top 5 d all of Malkin career, two Norris and a Conn smythe, 3 cups, 2 Olympic golds.

Keith is an amazing player. I totally respect him and his accomplishments. Malkin is on a completely different level.