What's the beef with Gabriel Landeskog?

[Ice Crusher]

As an NHL player he's ahead....

I wouldn't necessarily say it's a slam dunk in the future...Zibanejad is a pretty raw kid right now.

That's what I said as of now in every aspects he is. We don't really know who will have a brighter future though. Zibanejad is a gem. This guy will be good but he's more of a project right now. It will take a couple of years for him to make some impact in the league and than will know more who will end up better.

 

[Zaphod]

For a rookie forward, I'm really surprised how often Landeskog has been used so often in the defensive zone so far - 36 defensive zone starts vs. 20 offensive zone starts. Even though he's been sheltered by facing the easiest competition (-1.125 Corsi Rel QoC), he's been impressive. His PDO (.998) also suggests that his performance could be sustainable.

Solid start to his career.

Hmm.

Quality of Competition is one of those I've never really figured out... only the Montreal game (against Max Pac's line) really stands out as a game where they didn't have a (purported) tough match-up. In the two Chicago games, the Landeskog-O'Reilly-Winnik line scored on and was scored on by the Toews line, in the Toronto game they scored on and were scored on by a line by Kessel's line... against Ottawa they faced Spezza or Alfredsson, against Columbus they were out there late against Nash and Carter and scored.

I know there's bound to be a difference between shift charts and who happened to be on the ice when a goal was scored, and I would guess QoC would be related more to corsi than a less quantitative measure of how many all-stars are out there - would QoC be higher if they were facing the other team's shut down line instead of their 1st or 2nd scoring line?

 

[Mansfield]

brisket, isn't it?

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Lando is awesome. So jelly.

 

[pullyoursocksup]

I'm jealous of the avs getting Landeskog he is the type of player that every team needs a future two way power forward with leadership and a good shot.

He makes me think a bit like Todd Bertuzzi at his best years i think the guy will crack the 60 points 25 goals soon enough he has all the tools to succeed.

agree with the first part. he is the perfect core forward to build a team around. seems like a mature good locker room guy as well.

i see him as having the potential of being above a ppg, and that coupled with his game at both ends of the rink, he could be very special.

bertuzzi comparison is way off though, bertuzzi had more apparent talent and used his body more. but landeskog does know how to go to the dirty areas and use his body a lot for a young player.

a comparison of him to eric staal reasonable in a best possible scenario of development.

 

[AvsFan7*]

Some how Phil Kessel manages to find his way into this thread.

Kessel is 24 years old and much more develloped then Landeskog, obviously he is at least a slightly better player right now. But reall the only thing he is probably better then Landy at is shooting, Landy is without a doubt better defensivly, and has a better Hockey Sense, equal if not better playmaking ability.

Kessel has a better shot then Landy, and a better knack for scoring goals, but thats about it. Landeskog will without a doubt become a better player then kessel, Probably matching Kessel in Point totals(70-80 in Prime), while playing MUCH better Defensivly and being a MUCH better team player!

 

[The Mauve Avenger]

Hmm.

Quality of Competition is one of those I've never really figured out... only the Montreal game (against Max Pac's line) really stands out as a game where they didn't have a (purported) tough match-up. In the two Chicago games, the Landeskog-O'Reilly-Winnik line scored on and was scored on by the Toews line, in the Toronto game they scored on and were scored on by a line by Kessel's line... against Ottawa they faced Spezza or Alfredsson, against Columbus they were out there late against Nash and Carter and scored.

I know there's bound to be a difference between shift charts and who happened to be on the ice when a goal was scored, and I would guess QoC would be related more to corsi than a less quantitative measure of how many all-stars are out there - would QoC be higher if they were facing the other team's shut down line instead of their 1st or 2nd scoring line?

I probably shouldn't have used that stat so early in the season. A larger sample size is required before one should analyze a player/line/team using the Corsi, and that's usually after 30-40 games. Nonetheless, he's played very well so far this year.

 

[nanzenkills]

How many players score 40 and 40? There are much more gifted players than Landeskog who haven't come close to that, Phil Kessel being a prime example.

Talent isn't everything. If that were the case, Alexei Kovalev would have been the greatest player in the history of hockey, Alexandre Daigle would be a generational player, and Pavel Brendl would have multiple 100-point seasons in the NHL under his belt.

It's not unheard of for players with similar skillsets to Landeskog to put up 40 and 40 in a season. Jarome Iginla has done it multiple times, and he came into his draft year facing similar criticisms to Landeskog. Todd Bertuzzi, Brendan Shanahan, Keith Tkachuk, all of those players played a similar style of game to Landeskog, and they all had 40 and 40 seasons as well (Shanahan and Tkachuk both did it more than once).

Some how Phil Kessel manages to find his way into this thread.

Kessel is 24 years old and much more develloped then Landeskog, obviously he is at least a slightly better player right now. But reall the only thing he is probably better then Landy at is shooting, Landy is without a doubt better defensivly, and has a better Hockey Sense, equal if not better playmaking ability.

Kessel has a better shot then Landy, and a better knack for scoring goals, but thats about it. Landeskog will without a doubt become a better player then kessel, Probably matching Kessel in Point totals(70-80 in Prime), while playing MUCH better Defensivly and being a MUCH better team player!

You forgot to mention that Kessel is a better skater than Landeskog. But I agree that Landeskog will be a better defensive and team-first player than Kessel will ever be. He probably already is.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

People misunderstand. I'm not saying Landeskog will be a bad player (I've been raving about the kid since his rookie year in the OHL). I'm just saying there are a lot of highly gifted, hard working players who struggle to hit 40/40. Pick apart my example of Kessel all you want, no one in their right mind would suggest Landeskog's offensive abilities trump Kessel's. Kessel skates better, has better vision, has a better shot and is a better passer.

YES, Landeskog is 6 years younger than Kessel, he will obviously improve. But Kessel (again, being an example that I am most familiar with, just as much as I am with Landeskog) has an elite skillset and the kid DOES work hard in the offensive zone. Even during his slumps, he's getting the opportunities. But even with that high level of skill, he's never hit 40. Will Landeskog's unmatched work ethic see him hit 40/40? Possibly. But people act like it's inevitable. I certainly don't see him doing it regularly. How many players in the NHL put up those kind of numbers each year?

 

[WayneBruce]

People misunderstand. I'm not saying Landeskog will be a bad player (I've been raving about the kid since his rookie year in the OHL). I'm just saying there are a lot of highly gifted, hard working players who struggle to hit 40/40. Pick apart my example of Kessel all you want, no one in their right mind would suggest Landeskog's offensive abilities trump Kessel's. Kessel skates better, has better vision, has a better shot and is a better passer.

YES, Landeskog is 6 years younger than Kessel, he will obviously improve. But Kessel (again, being an example that I am most familiar with, just as much as I am with Landeskog) has an elite skillset and the kid DOES work hard in the offensive zone. Even during his slumps, he's getting the opportunities. But even with that high level of skill, he's never hit 40. Will Landeskog's unmatched work ethic see him hit 40/40? Possibly. But people act like it's inevitable. I certainly don't see him doing it regularly. How many players in the NHL put up those kind of numbers each year?

I think Landeskog is a lot better than Kessel was at the same age and i think he is going to be better than Kessel when he is 24 as well. Kessel is on a hot streak right now and playing really well, but i would never call a player with a career high of 64 points elite. Landeskog might not be an elite player either in the future but i can see the possibility of that happening.

 

[TheStranger]

I'm as impressed as anyone, but I don't see him ever being a 40 goal guy. I would expect a max of 70ish points and 30-35 goals.

If you couple that with that he is already showing defensively, which will also improve, he will easily be top 5 all round in the game. I'm happy with that.

I don't think he will ever be in the very top few players though. Prove me wrong lando!

 

[AvsFan7*]

Talent isn't everything. If that were the case, Alexei Kovalev would have been the greatest player in the history of hockey, Alexandre Daigle would be a generational player, and Pavel Brendl would have multiple 100-point seasons in the NHL under his belt.

It's not unheard of for players with similar skillsets to Landeskog to put up 40 and 40 in a season. Jarome Iginla has done it multiple times, and he came into his draft year facing similar criticisms to Landeskog. Todd Bertuzzi, Brendan Shanahan, Keith Tkachuk, all of those players played a similar style of game to Landeskog, and they all had 40 and 40 seasons as well (Shanahan and Tkachuk both did it more than once).



You forgot to mention that Kessel is a better skater than Landeskog. But I agree that Landeskog will be a better defensive and team-first player than Kessel will ever be. He probably already is.

True, I did completly forget about skating haha! Kessel is definitly a better skater then Landeskog right now, will he be in 3-4 years, I dunno, I would be led to believe that yes he would still be better, but its something Landy knows he's not great with and with his hardwork and determination, he could just as easily become a great skater and possibly better then Kessel!

I think that's the biggest thing being left out for Landy and why he seems to be Underrated. He's an increibly hard worker who works his absolute hardest every day, and I think his drive to get better is stronger then 95% of players that play, and this is why I think he will prove everyone wrong, and be much more then a 60 Point 2way player! I think he has the ability to get to Eric Staals level of play, and I think he will at least come very close to it!

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Hmm.

Quality of Competition is one of those I've never really figured out... only the Montreal game (against Max Pac's line) really stands out as a game where they didn't have a (purported) tough match-up. In the two Chicago games, the Landeskog-O'Reilly-Winnik line scored on and was scored on by the Toews line, in the Toronto game they scored on and were scored on by a line by Kessel's line... against Ottawa they faced Spezza or Alfredsson, against Columbus they were out there late against Nash and Carter and scored.

I know there's bound to be a difference between shift charts and who happened to be on the ice when a goal was scored, and I would guess QoC would be related more to corsi than a less quantitative measure of how many all-stars are out there - would QoC be higher if they were facing the other team's shut down line instead of their 1st or 2nd scoring line?

QoC is a little wonky, especially early in the year, since it uses the Corsi data for whoever the player faces (e.g. you can have an opposnig 4th liner who just kills it early on for whatever reason and gets his QoC rating twisted). It's an alright method for comparing amongst general difficulty of circumstance between teammates, but I'd also say it's the least reliable advanced statstical measure by a fair margin.

QoC, over enough games, should be highest if you're consistently facing top lines, and specifically good top lines. Shutdown guys tend to have fairly low Corsi rates because they don't give up much defensively, but they don't create a ton offensively either; they just create a small positive differential against decent competition.

That's my basic understanding of it, although there may be something I'm missing. Just like goals/points, small sample sizes are pretty undesirable, so I wouldn't read too much into those numbers until we're at least another month into the season.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

Perhaps it's just because he has O'Reilly on his line but he seems a bit like a Cy Young winner right now. We'll see in the future.

A what?

LOL

Anyways, it's early but it looks like the scouts were right again. What a surprise .

 

[FrozenJagrt]

I think Landeskog is a lot better than Kessel was at the same age and i think he is going to be better than Kessel when he is 24 as well. Kessel is on a hot streak right now and playing really well, but i would never call a player with a career high of 64 points elite. Landeskog might not be an elite player either in the future but i can see the possibility of that happening.

Kessel's level of skill was very evident in his rookie season. Landeskog might outplay him, but keep in mind the circumstances surrounding Kessel's rookie season. The cancer plus bottom six minutes for a guy who was never expected to play a bottom six role had an effect on his output. And I'm not sure what his point total has to do with his skillset. You aren't trying to suggest that his skating and shot are anything less than elite, are you?

 

[S E P H]

I agree with Ace14 concerning Landeskog point numbers. I too don't see him putting up 80 points, but 40 goals shouldn't be out of the question. Maybe around 30-40 goals and 30 assists for 65-70 points seems good enough.

 

[vippe]

Kessel's level of skill was very evident in his rookie season. Landeskog might outplay him, but keep in mind the circumstances surrounding Kessel's rookie season. The cancer plus bottom six minutes for a guy who was never expected to play a bottom six role had an effect on his output. And I'm not sure what his point total has to do with his skillset. You aren't trying to suggest that his skating and shot are anything less than elite, are you?

I doubt he is but that's also the only that's elite with Kessel.. then again probably the best things to be elite at as shown on the scoring race

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Colorado's third line is really their first line at the moment. Landeskog and O`Reilly look good together.

 

[oilsands]

Great player, and no one is hating on him. Do you know how hard it is to score 40 goals in the NHL? 30 goals?

Score 30 goals more than twice and you will be considered an upper echelon player, even if you only ever do it twice in your career. Too many kids on HF eat the hype and assume their favourite prospect will fulfill potential and be elite. It is only with the perspective of watching the NHL for a decade can you see that development is not linear.

 

[nanzenkills]

People misunderstand. I'm not saying Landeskog will be a bad player (I've been raving about the kid since his rookie year in the OHL). I'm just saying there are a lot of highly gifted, hard working players who struggle to hit 40/40. Pick apart my example of Kessel all you want, no one in their right mind would suggest Landeskog's offensive abilities trump Kessel's. Kessel skates better, has better vision, has a better shot and is a better passer.

YES, Landeskog is 6 years younger than Kessel, he will obviously improve. But Kessel (again, being an example that I am most familiar with, just as much as I am with Landeskog) has an elite skillset and the kid DOES work hard in the offensive zone. Even during his slumps, he's getting the opportunities. But even with that high level of skill, he's never hit 40. Will Landeskog's unmatched work ethic see him hit 40/40? Possibly. But people act like it's inevitable. I certainly don't see him doing it regularly. How many players in the NHL put up those kind of numbers each year?

I think it is indisputable that Kessel is more highly skilled than Landeskog, but I'm not absolutely convinced at this point that Kessel has better vision and hockey sense than Landeskog. At similar points of their careers, Landeskog seems to have a better knack of knowing where to be on the ice and knowing where to go to get scoring chances.

I certainly don't think that it's inevitable that Landeskog becomes a 40-goal scorer, but I think it's possible, and one thing that bodes well for his scoring future is the fact that he is putting a lot of shots on net already this early in his career. As he develops more and learns the NHL game better, there's a good chance that he's going to bury a lot more of them.

 

[R S]

Colorado's third line is really their first line at the moment. Landeskog and O`Reilly look good together.

Easily our best line all season. With that being said, I still see Landeskog as an eventual top 6 player with Duchene.

The Avs seem to have trouble finding Duchene a proper winger and at some point I think Landeskog has to be that guy.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Viking Mode Engaged

 

[dream catcher]

A winger version of Toews. Not quite as talented as him, but both think the game similar and have that IT factor.

 

[puckfan13]

The real question is how long until he takes off the visor. Those kids in Colorado really don't like those visors. O'Reilly, Yip and Stewart before that.

 

[Zih]

A what?

I believe "Cy Young" in reference to hockey means a player who has far more goals than assists. I only remember that because it was mentioned when Svatos had like 13 goals and 1 assist during one year.