What UFA should we really go after?

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If you don't want to sign Karlsson. It is because of his injuries. Not because "it's not the right time". It's entirely acceptable to not want to offer double digit millions to a guy who might play half the games in that contract because his legs have taken such a beating. But if your reason is that Detroit is still rebuilding and shouldn't offer him because of that... that's stupid.

 

[Bench]

But if your reason is that Detroit is still rebuilding and shouldn't offer him because of that... that's stupid.

Detroit is still rebuilding!

Yes, and...?

They don't have enough top talent!

So add Karlsson.

They need more top talent to add Karlsson.

.... K.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Detroit is still rebuilding!

Yes, and...?

They don't have enough top talent!

So add Karlsson.

They need more top talent to add Karlsson.

.... K.

That's like the similar argument of making a trade for a guy.

Land a #1 D

Ok, I'll have to trade Larkin

No, we can't trade him.

Alright, well how about Mantha or AA?

No, AA scored 30 goals and could get to 50 and Mantha is gonna be a superstar

Alright guys, I gotta trade something. How about 6OA?

Are you kidding, that could be anything, even a #1D! You can totally trade Svechnikov and Saarijavi though.

 

[FMichael]

For starters, we're not talking about the best defenseman in the league, we're talking about Karlsson. And in his current incarnation he is not the best.

Also Lidstrom didn't have a 70% tear in his achilles, major reconstructive ankle surgery, and now groin surgery all before the age of 30. Lidstrom was remarkably healthy and his game relied mostly on his hockey IQ. Karlsson's game relies greatly on his skating. When you're talking about the kind of deal he'll likely get, concerns about this long-term health are legitimate.

And you can only put him on LTIR if he's completely unable to play. The bad scenario is getting a 60% Karlsson on a contract paying him for 100% Karlsson. Again though, this is likely an issue for the Rangers or some other team, not the Wings.

Agreed.

Karlsson will have a handful of teams competing for his services...I pity the fanbase of the team that Karlsson signs for considering his injury woes will limit his ability over the next few years.

That said - I could see Karlsson signing with the Habs.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Doesn't sound like Yzerman is interested in "making a big splash"
Yzerman doesn't think you can 'build a team through free agency'

"I've never used free agency to make a splash. I like when people use that term. I'm not trying to make a big splash, I'm trying to build a good team. And I don't think you can build a team through free agency. But collectively and selectively, you can improve your team."

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

That's like the similar argument of making a trade for a guy.

Land a #1 D

Ok, I'll have to trade Larkin

No, we can't trade him.

Alright, well how about Mantha or AA?

No, AA scored 30 goals and could get to 50 and Mantha is gonna be a superstar

Alright guys, I gotta trade something. How about 6OA?

Are you kidding, that could be anything, even a #1D! You can totally trade Svechnikov and Saarijavi though.

Sure trade for a legit #1 dman but not just some guy who has only 1 at best 50pt season with a very questionable attitude to boot.

That screams 2013 shiny new toy syndrome .

Let's rebuild through the draft first.
Then IF we still don't have what we need we will be in a position to both
A) trade away assets do to our significant depth
B) be ready to compete and only rounding out needed

Dmen are ALWAYS available when you have what other teams need

Now IF we're neither ready to compete nor have drafted or developed significant assets then it's a good thing we didnt make a trade today because the whole rebuild would need to start all over.

 

[Bench]

Doesn't sound like Yzerman is interested in "making a big splash"
Yzerman doesn't think you can 'build a team through free agency'

"I've never used free agency to make a splash. I like when people use that term. I'm not trying to make a big splash, I'm trying to build a good team. And I don't think you can build a team through free agency. But collectively and selectively, you can improve your team."

He's mastered the GM speak. "I'm not going to sign anyone until I do."

Which is completely reasonable. Don't go looking for a splash. If one is there, you take it. Collectively. Selectively.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Doesn't sound like Yzerman is interested in "making a big splash"
Yzerman doesn't think you can 'build a team through free agency'

"I've never used free agency to make a splash. I like when people use that term. I'm not trying to make a big splash, I'm trying to build a good team. And I don't think you can build a team through free agency. But collectively and selectively, you can improve your team."

I have been saying the exact some thing for years.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Sure trade for a legit #1 dman but not just some guy who has only 1 at best 50pt season with a very questionable attitude to boot.

That screams 2013 shiny new toy syndrome .

Let's rebuild through the draft first.
Then IF we still don't have what we need we will be in a position to both
A) trade away assets do to our significant depth
B) be ready to compete and only rounding out needed

Dmen are ALWAYS available when you have what other teams need

Now IF we're neither ready to compete nor have drafted or developed significant assets then it's a good thing we didnt make a trade today because the whole rebuild would need to start all over.

That wasn't specifically referencing the Trouba situation. Just moreso the reluctance to trade ANYTHING of value for a guy.

Maybe I should have used Tatar and Nyquist as pieces to try to get Bouwmeester or trying to trade for Shea Weber or trying to trade for Myers in 2015 or etc. etc. etc.

The Wings have, probably correctly by value, not dealt for a top D man since 1999. However, you can't bemoan the fact that we don't have talent and then turn your nose up at any possible scenario that would add talent to our roster. If our roster is so bad and uncompetitive, why are you trying to hold onto so many of the guys on the roster?

The whole premise of trading for Trouba is that you'd be looking to get him at a discount rate for what he is because he's got Winnipeg over a barrel and would probably want to play here.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Dmen are ALWAYS available when you have what other teams need

If recent deadlines tell us anything, the thing that teams need more than anything is defensemen. Look at the price difference between the forwards and defensemen. Defensemen aren’t really a readily available commodity because teams are already in need of them.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

That wasn't specifically referencing the Trouba situation. Just moreso the reluctance to trade ANYTHING of value for a guy.

Maybe I should have used Tatar and Nyquist as pieces to try to get Bouwmeester or trying to trade for Shea Weber or trying to trade for Myers in 2015 or etc. etc. etc.

The Wings have, probably correctly by value, not dealt for a top D man since 1999. However, you can't bemoan the fact that we don't have talent and then turn your nose up at any possible scenario that would add talent to our roster. If our roster is so bad and uncompetitive, why are you trying to hold onto so many of the guys on the roster?

The whole premise of trading for Trouba is that you'd be looking to get him at a discount rate for what he is because he's got Winnipeg over a barrel and would probably want to play here.

1. I would say in those years where Myers and jaybo were available i was supportive of trading for them because of the idea we could extend our playoff window and marginal chances of success

2. I do think we have talent and that the rebuild is on the right track. But we're just at the start of this process. Let's give it some time and let it play out. Trouba is not worth disrupting or worse sabotaging the rebuild for(some posters suggest we trade zadina plus dach/cozens/Bryan for him). Now if he comes here for free as a free agent or practically free, a 2nd plus a berggren, than i can get behind that.

I know we all want playoff hockey but when the time comes I want a decade of it with legit multiple cup aspirations..

 

[Frk It]

Goodbye to the Karlsson pipe dream...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Goodbye to the Karlsson pipe dream...

On defense the Sharks now have:

Vlasic (32 years old) signed for 7 more years at $7 million.
Burns (34 years old) signed for 6 more years at $8 million
Karlsson (29 years old) signed for 8 more years at $11+ million.

Any bets on who will get bought out or LTIRetired first?

 

[Hen Kolland]

On defense the Sharks now have:

Vlasic (32 years old) signed for 7 more years at $7 million.
Burns (34 years old) signed for 6 more years at $8 million
Karlsson (29 years old) signed for 8 more years at $11+ million.

Any bets on who will get bought out or LTIRetired first?

The optics of this is worse than our roster and cap management 4-5 years ago. This "play for the window" mindset is damaging to franchises for a long time. 5 years from now you could be on the hook for 26+ million on a 39 year old Burns, a 34 year old Karlsson, and a 37 year old Vlasic. I can only imagine their production has dried up significantly, and two of them aren't exactly known for their defensive prowess.

 

[izlez]

Now seems like a good time to laugh at the fact that people thought there'd be 15-20 youngish star players hitting UFA this year when they still had 4 months to negotiate with their current teams

 

[ricky0034]

bleh was never gonna happen but was still hoping

at least I can stop reading ridiculous people bashing Karlsson now and talking about how the guy that was leading the Playoffs in assists through 3 rounds and was first in points per game among defensemen a year ago(and 6th this year adjusting to a new team) is done at the age of 29 and should probably just retire

 

[obey86]

The optics of this is worse than our roster and cap management 4-5 years ago. This "play for the window" mindset is damaging to franchises for a long time. 5 years from now you could be on the hook for 26+ million on a 39 year old Burns, a 34 year old Karlsson, and a 37 year old Vlasic. I can only imagine their production has dried up significantly, and two of them aren't exactly known for their defensive prowess.

Why not try for the Stanley Cup over the next few seasons? A lot of their team is old, so what? They're also really good. Might as well go for it now, even if it hurts later.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

bleh was never gonna happen but was still hoping

at least I can stop reading ridiculous people bashing Karlsson now and talking about how the guy that was leading the Playoffs in assists through 3 rounds and was first in points per game among defensemen a year ago(and 6th this year adjusting to a new team) is done at the age of 29 and should probably just retire

Care to quote those posts where people said he was done at the age of 29 and should just retire?

 

[ricky0034]

Care to quote those posts where people said he was done at the age of 29 and should just retire?

literally every other post in any Karlsson thread in the past year or so?

he's a future hall of famer that just turned 29 less than a month ago and has shown an ability to still score at an elite level while suffering from injuries AND adjusting to a new team and people act like he's 40

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

literally every other post in any Karlsson thread in the past year or so?

he's a future hall of famer that just turned 29 and has shown an ability to still score at an elite level while suffering from injuries AND adjusting to a new team and people act like he's 40

So it should be easy to find one where people were saying he's done and should retire.

 

[Dotter]

He's not done and shouldn't retire. He's only 29 and is a beast. SJS will probably make some other moves, but they will be a contender next post season.

 

[Ezekial]

The optics of this is worse than our roster and cap management 4-5 years ago. This "play for the window" mindset is damaging to franchises for a long time. 5 years from now you could be on the hook for 26+ million on a 39 year old Burns, a 34 year old Karlsson, and a 37 year old Vlasic. I can only imagine their production has dried up significantly, and two of them aren't exactly known for their defensive prowess.

What about the optics of having a signed Burns/Couture/Meier/Vlasic/Kane and being a fringe team until 2025 when those deals expire?

E:Meier hasn't signed yet but they'll lock him down.

 

[Hen Kolland]

What about the optics of having a signed Burns/Couture/Meier/Vlasic/Kane and being a fringe team until 2025 when those deals expire?

E:Meier hasn't signed yet but they'll lock him down.

What’s the question?

 

[Ezekial]

What’s the question?

They have big money invested in most of those players on this team until 2025 Karlsson's deal lines up with them. How would it look for them to go flaccid now? They wouldn't bottom out without Karlsson. With players like Burns, Vlasic, Couture, Kane, Hertl, and Meier you're going to be a fringe playoff team, so they are locking down their core for the next ~6 seasons, a core they see as a contender.
They lock down Karlsson and have 2 top 10 offensive defenseman and a top defensive defenseman most of the lives of the contracts. Not even mentioning the fact that they have less picks over the next 2 years than we have in this draft. Win now mode until they start the rebuild toward the end of these contracts.

 

[Hen Kolland]

They have big money invested in most of those players on this team until 2025 Karlsson's deal lines up with them. How would it look for them to go flaccid now? They wouldn't bottom out without Karlsson. With players like Burns, Vlasic, Couture, Kane, Hertl, and Meier you're going to be a fringe playoff team, so they are locking down their core for the next ~6 seasons, a core they see as a contender.
They lock down Karlsson and have 2 top 10 offensive defenseman and a top defensive defenseman most of the lives of the contracts. Not even mentioning the fact that they have less picks over the next 2 years than we have in this draft. Win now mode until they start the rebuild toward the end of these contracts.

I guess I understand the concept you are driving at. I would ask why one mistake justifies several more.