Confirmed with Link: What to do with Trouba? (UPD: 1y/5.5m arb award)

[ps241]

The NHL is also a business, for both teams and players. Let’s remember Drew Doughty held out on LA in 2011-12 and missed training camp and 5 preseason games. At the end of the day, I don’t think Trouba simply wants to be overpaid, he wants to be paid at or close to market value - my guess. Is that really a bad thing? Seeing as he is 5 years into his career and hasn’t been given all the opportunity yet given Byfuglien is here, I don’t think he wants to sign a deal that by year 2 is a “steal” for the team like we have seen with Scheifele, for example. I can’t blame Trouba for that because I think if he were given opportunity and PP time to be that #1 guy I do think it’s possible he’s worth 7-8 mill right now long-term, say for the next 7 years.

If this is a case of each side grinding out the best deal for themselves and it’s not Jacob simply wanting out, I personally don’t blame the team or Trouba for negotiating to the bitter end. Welcome to business, welcome to contract negotiation. I just hope if it’s a money or term debate that both can settle in the middle and we can move on happily and respect the process of negotiation for what it is.

Hear, hear

 

[kcin94]

The NHL is also a business, for both teams and players. At the end of the day, I don’t think Trouba simply wants to be overpaid, he wants to be paid at or close to market value - my guess. Is that really a bad thing? Seeing as he is 5 years into his career and hasn’t been given all the opportunity yet given Byfuglien is here, I don’t think he wants to sign a deal that by year 2 is a “steal” for the team like we have seen with Scheifele, for example. I can’t blame Trouba for that because I think if he were given opportunity and PP time to be that #1 guy I do think it’s possible he’s worth 7-8 mill right now long-term, say for the next 7 years.

Except there is no comparable to say that the market value for him is 7-8 million. The market is more 5-6..5 million for someone with his stats/advanced stats.

To say he hasn't been given the opportunity is not correct. He is given 1st pair minutes and while he has been great in a shut down role, his point production has not been at Buff's level or even Myers' level. The only reason to give him that PP time is to boost his stats which is not the best way to run the team. We were 5th in the league in PP% last year. When Trouba was given PP time due to injuries to Buff/Myers, he did not produce as well as the other two.

If his argument is that if he was on a lesser team he would have better stats to get more money, then trade him to a lesser team. This team requires you to earn your spot.

 

[kittiecarlyle]

I am surprised at how many people would like to be under paid at their own jobs for the benefit of the company.

This is the business of hockey and playing out within the rules of the CBA.

KO Sports does great work for their clients , I wish my union could have them hammer out my next contract.

This isn’t personal this is all business.

I still expect a long term deal to be announced.

Expect or wish?

 

[Guerzy]

Chevy doesn't underpay. Their is an 8 year history there. The problem is a player overvalueing his worth.

This I do agree with. Chevy has shown to be very fair to players and contracts, in my opinion. My gut feeling is this coming down to Trouba believing he can be better than he’s shown given the opportunity and maybe he’s trying to negotiate off of that? He’s betting on himself, I think...? The flip side is he’s on a pretty damn good team, so my opinion is at the end of the day sign a fair deal for what you’ve done today and wait your turn the way John Carlson has in Washington.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

The NHL is also a business, for both teams and players. Let’s remember Drew Doughty held out on LA in 2011-12 and missed training camp and 5 preseason games. At the end of the day, I don’t think Trouba simply wants to be overpaid, he wants to be paid at or close to market value - my guess. Is that really a bad thing? Seeing as he is 5 years into his career and hasn’t been given all the opportunity yet given Byfuglien is here, I don’t think he wants to sign a deal that by year 2 is a “steal” for the team like we have seen with Scheifele, for example. I can’t blame Trouba for that because I think if he were given opportunity and PP time to be that #1 guy I do think it’s possible he’s worth 7-8 mill right now long-term, say for the next 7 years.

If this is a case of each side grinding out the best deal for themselves and it’s not Jacob simply wanting out, I personally don’t blame the team or Trouba for negotiating to the bitter end. Welcome to business, welcome to contract negotiation. I just hope if it’s a money or term debate that both can settle in the middle and we can move on happily and respect the process of negotiation for what it is.

Chevy is no dummy. He's an NHL GM that knows what Trouba's value is, and if all it took was a market value offer, Trouba would have been signed by now. There are really only two possibilities at this stage. Trouba wants to be paid far above his worth, or he just doesn't want to play in Winnipeg. Obviously, if a multi-year deal is announced in the next couple of hours, I and a few others are just flat out wrong. But I don't think I am.

 

[leer2006]

When all is said and done. I hope we get to hear what the final offer the Jet's made if JT doesn't except it.

 

[Guffman]

I mean, yeah, the city isn't amazing, but why would you want out of a young team that should be a contender for many years to come...

Some of these conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

Do some research, see how good he really is, take into account the Jets offering him only 4 million, and it really all adds up.

It’s wrong to say that the Jets just offered him $4M. That was the low ball amount for arbitration purposes based on the comparables that the Jets management decided to bring to the hearing. What they would be offering Trouba would actually be quite a bit different.

 

[SCP Guy]

I mean, yeah, the city isn't amazing, but why would you want out of a young team that should be a contender for many years to come...

Some of these conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

Do some research, see how good he really is, take into account the Jets offering him only 4 million, and it really all adds up.

That 4 mil was not a contract offer... It was for arbitration purposes. What the Jets have offered Trouba on an extension has never been made public....

 

[Guerzy]

Chevy is no dummy. He's an NHL GM that knows what Trouba's value is, and if all it took was a market value offer, Trouba would have been signed by now. There are really only two possibilities at this stage. Trouba wants to be paid far above his worth, or he just doesn't want to play in Winnipeg. Obviously, if a multi-year deal is announced in the next couple of hours, I and a few others are just flat out wrong. But I don't think I am.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I’m just trying to place a guess on where Trouba may be negotiating from (if he’s not trying to fast track himself out of the Peg) and this is a true negotiation of dollars, term and worth for today and however many UFA years we may lock him up for.

Scheifele is now clearly underpaid, I don’t think Trouba wants to be “clearly underpaid” in year 2 of a 6 or 7 year deal given he probably feels he hasn’t been given full opportunity yet given all of the depth we have. It’s a tricky negotiation if this is what is happening, in my opinion. He is 2 years from UFA where he will get paid a lot of money, be it by the Jets or another team. My wonder is if the two sides are at a roadblock of what is the market value deal when Jacob Trouba is a UFA.

*Sidenote: I’m not saying this isn’t all smokescreen and Trouba just wants out of Winnipeg. That very well may be the case.

Nothing will surprise me at this point when we see the outcome here. Long-term or one-year.

 

[ulf]

How does that we offer they offer work. Is our 4 million vs their 7 million and the arbiter picks the closer value.

 

[robertocarlos]

WTH! It's 12:30, is the arbitrator like an auctioneer asking if there are any last bids?

 

[robertocarlos]

How does that we offer they offer work. Is our 4 million vs their 7 million and the arbiter picks the closer value.

The 4 and 7 are what the two parties think is a fair deal. The arbitrator doesn't really consider them unless you offer 2 or ask for 9 and then he knows you are dreaming. The arb picks a fair value from comparable values and stuff.

 

[DRW204]

Something at the very least happens today correct? When the arbitrator sends the award, the Jets will pick up the 1 year option no matter what unless there's a long term signing right?

 

[ffh]

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I’m just trying to place a guess on where Trouba may be negotiating from (if he’s not trying to fast track himself out of the Peg) and this is a true negotiation of dollars, term and worth for today and however many UFA years we may lock him up for.

Scheifele is now clearly underpaid, I don’t think Trouba wants to be “clearly underpaid” in year 2 of a 6 or 7 year deal given he probably feels he hasn’t been given full opportunity yet given all of the depth we have. It’s a tricky negotiation if this is what is happening, in my opinion. He is 2 years from UFA where he will get paid a lot of money, be it by the Jets or another team. My wonder is if the two sides are at a roadblock of what is the market value deal when Jacob Trouba is a UFA.

*Sidenote: I’m not saying this isn’t all smokescreen and Trouba just wants out of Winnipeg. That very well may be the case.

Nothing will surprise me at this point when we see the outcome here. Long-term or one-year.

Kane wanted out also but he realized he could secure his future and ask for trade at same time. Even kane isn't this stupid to not sign a market value contract cause he wants out.

 

[robertocarlos]

Winnipeg is amazing. Why else would we live here? And where-ever you go, there you are.

 

[robertocarlos]

I know. Both sides are working on their "let's go win the Cup" speech.

 

[ulf]

The 4 and 7 are what the two parties think is a fair deal. The arbitrator doesn't really consider them unless you offer 2 or ask for 9 and then he knows you are dreaming. The arb picks a fair value from comparable values and stuff.

Has an arbiter ever gone outside he parameters?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Nice post and I think we see this in a similar fashion. I am all for trading him now if we can get a blend of assets coming back that represent strong value.

Like Whileee said the transition away from the Jets top priority being asset builder and gatherer to a contender spending their assets to win has been a bit slower for me than Chevy and his team. I realize there is a balance and we are beginning our run but each season holds huge value as far as winning “a” cup. I am also mindful that today’s traded 1st round pick “may” be the ELC cost controlled asset that helps us win a cup when Laine is 24 or 25.

I look at the Ducks as example A of a contending team that were steadfast in preserving their 1st round picks for the most part and did a great job adding valuable players out of those late picks. I am also mindful that they have come up just short each season in their quest for the cup.

Starting in 2011 the Scheifele draft here is the Ducks run:

2011 Rackell (30th)
2012 Lindholm (6th)
2014 Theodore (26th)
2015 Montour (55th)
2016 Larsson (27th)
2017 Sam Steel (30th)

Clear as mud right Mort? The debate in my head rages .

I don't think it is easy to describe any infallible strategy - but I do believe that asset management has to continue permanently.

We have lost 3 genuine assets since the TD, IMO. Foley, probably Veleno and Armia. In no case is the loss a disaster. But they could have either been retained or traded for value.

Armia bought us needed cap space but the price was high. Too high, IMO. But there is no denying the space was needed.

Now we are contemplating losing Trouba. Will we get 1 year and some lesser assets? 2 years and no return? Or a bigger return sooner. Just sooner alone has some value.

All that said we have a good example of the conundrum in Wheeler. I've considered things like his durability pointing to a longer career. The likely loss of a little speed pointing to a shorter one. And a dozen other things. Whether to move him now for an assumed big return, rent him for 1 more year, or extend him is really tough to decide. In the end it is his leadership, his role as the heart of the team that tips the scales for me. Then it is only on the assumption that we could extend him on an acceptable contract that keeps me in the extend camp.

Then we have the question of whether to extend him now or wait until after this season. That is another tough question.

I'm not confident in my opinions on those questions. I have opinions. I'm not sure I can defend them.

End of the day. Chevy needs to continue to take a long view, IMO.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm tired of the Trouba drama. Let's get something of value for him and get rid of the distraction.

I share the feeling - but is he distracting anybody but us? I mean is it a problem in the room? Affecting team cohesion? Maybe it is bothering Maurice & Chevy. No, forget maybe.

 

[Lorenzo1000]

5.5 for Trouba

 

[TheJadePipe]

1 X5.5

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Stop blaming Overhardt, he’s just acting on Trouba’s request. You give Trouba far too much rope here, speculating about his dad and his agent orchestrating this. No this is all Trouba, and he won’t sign at the last minute. The dude wants out and it’s time to accept it. It’s also ok to be disappointed in him but it seems like drafted players get never-ending amounts of rope here.

He hasn't signed an arb contract yet so I won't write him off. He might have in the last 5 minutes though - in which case I am in the trade him ASAP camp. Until he actually accepts the arbitration award though I will continue to wait for the last minute deal.

I agree it is on him, but KO is the guy who has the tactics and strategies. He is pretty consistently a pain in the ass.

If I was a GM I would be reluctant to draft or acquire any of his clients. Not that I would refuse but I would devalue them to some extent. Too much chance of this **** from any of his clients.

 

[Daximus]

He'll be traded this summer or next. It's clear at this point what he wants.

 

[Polar Vortex]

Exactly what a lot of people thought

 

[Brominator]

Average of 4 and 7 is 5.5. It took them 6 hours with an arbitrator to figure that one out?

Maybe no one in the room passed math in elementary school or had a calculator.