What to do with our defense next year?

[Alchemy]

Well if we really are looking to overhaul the D, we are actually in a good position for that. You figure, we have Kimmo as a UFA next summer, then Coburn, Schenn and Grossmann the following one. We know we can trade Coburn for something good. It SHOULD be for a younger Dman that had yet to broken out but has showed signs. Teams will pay us more now than it would next summer or at the deadline before FA. Maybe the best bet is to run with what we have, see how the year is going, and then try and get an overpay at the deadline. The acquiring team will look at him as a non rental on a good contract. Could fetch us a bunch. I wonder what he will be looking for as a UFA because the reasons for trading for him are the same reasons for re-signing him.

I agree only except for the Coburn part. I feel if we trade him it should be for better forwards. The cupboard for defense is stacked. It's time to start looking at filling the forward ranks up. It would be nice if we could keep him but with Streit and McDonald signed to these long deals I just see how we can pay him and resign the prospects coming up while also worrying about playing time.

 

[Prongo]

I think if the Flyers somehow do jump into the Ernhoff bidding, they would want him to play with Coburn

Coburn-Ernhoff
Macdonald-Streit
Kimmo-Schenn

Not a bad to 6 but far too expensive and doesn't really leave much room for the young guys for several years.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The tv deal was not included in this years cap or something to that extent by the players. It is believed it will jump a good amount next year. I might have been a little optimistic with the number but I could see a cap from 76-80 million in two years.

Alright, I didn't know the TV deal was up. That makes a lot more sense. I wasn't sure if you were just being amazingly optimistic or what .

 

[Curufinwe]

I think if the Flyers somehow do jump into the Ernhoff bidding, they would want him to play with Coburn

Coburn-Ernhoff
Macdonald-Streit
Kimmo-Schenn

Not a bad to 6 but far too expensive and doesn't really leave much room for the young guys for several years.

Kimmo is almost certainly gone after this year and LSchenn & Coburn will be a UFA in two.

I think Ehrhoff is going to get way more money and term than would make sense for him here, even if we move Vinny and Grossmann.

 

[Tripod]

I agree only except for the Coburn part. I feel if we trade him it should be for better forwards. The cupboard for defense is stacked. It's time to start looking at filling the forward ranks up. It would be nice if we could keep him but with Streit and McDonald signed to these long deals I just see how we can pay him and resign the prospects coming up while also worrying about playing time.

And that could work too. I would love to target a young F or D what has not broken out yet, but looks poised to. I guess what I would like is a deal like we had with Carter and a Richards. Add 2-3 pieces where in a few years, those pieces are much better. But to a team that is contending, adding Coburn today helps them in a much better way than waiting.

And I only used Edmonton as Coburn has been tied to them before and we know they want yo push for the playoffs. Anaheim would be great too as they have lots of good F and D prospects that are on the verge of contributing.

 

[Alchemy]

I don't think we sign Ehrhoff because we already have Streit. Once again no need to make a 4 or 5 year commitment to an aging player when younger players plan on being slotted in the future. People just need to get the idea of this defense looking so so for the next two years until young defenseman get some seasoning and make it to the show.

 

[Tripod]

In a perfect world:

Alt replaces Grossmann this year
Ghost and Hagg replace Schenn and Kimmo next year
Morin replaces Coburn....or Alt if Coburn re-signs in 2 years
Sanheim replaces Streit in 3 years.

Then we MacD in 6 years.

 

[Prongo]

I am ready to cut ties with Grossmann and Schenn. They are two defenseman who can hit and somewhat defend but their passes are terrible. 12 inches of the ice sometimes and it's the simple play. Sorry Brayden, you will have to play without your brother here. Grossmann and Schenn would be a good player for Calgary. Burke likes his truculence.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I am ready to cut ties with Grossmann and Schenn. They are two defenseman who can hit and somewhat defend but their passes are terrible. 12 inches of the ice sometimes and it's the simple play. Sorry Brayden, you will have to play without your brother here. Grossmann and Schenn would be a good player for Calgary. Burke likes his truculence.

I'd be OK with keeping Schenn for another year or two. Maybe I'm misreading here, but you seem to imply Grossmann and Schenn are equal passers; I think that's flat out false, Grossmann is far, far worse than Schenn. Schenn can make the simple first pass. He's not gonna set up odd man rushes with two-zone passes, and he can't do much on offense, but he can pass it around in his own end reliably...more reliably than Braydon "What if I try to sneak this past that guy standing in the slot?" Coburn at times, too.

Grossmann though? His ankle/foot issues don't explain his horrible, horrible passing in all zones. There isn't a situation anywhere where he can be relied on to do more than dump.

Either way I don't think we need Grossmann if we have Schenn.

 

[Alchemy]

I am ready to cut ties with Grossmann and Schenn. They are two defenseman who can hit and somewhat defend but their passes are terrible. 12 inches of the ice sometimes and it's the simple play. Sorry Brayden, you will have to play without your brother here. Grossmann and Schenn would be a good player for Calgary. Burke likes his truculence.

I disagree. I feel sometimes people around here have an irrational view on defensive d-man. One of Luke Schenns strengths is his first pass. Hell remember that stretch pass he made to Vinny against the pens? If I'm getting rid of one of the two it's Grossman.

If our future D is Morin, Hagg, Schenn, Sanhiem, and Ghost I like that group. I'm sure McDonald will be here but I see another defensive d-man in the fold. One guy I hope they can get to come over is Vasilev. He's pretty much the exact player Emelin is.

 

[Prongo]

If I had to choose of course it would be Schenn over Grossmann and I do think he does make a better pass that Grossmann. I still don't think they are good passers. I have seen Schenn make passes about 12-18 inches off the ice when he is trying to transition out of the zone. Grossmann, like Beef said, is redundant and not the better player. I remember the pass but more than often Schenn has problems handling the puck as well.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'd be OK with keeping Schenn for another year or two. Maybe I'm misreading here, but you seem to imply Grossmann and Schenn are equal passers; I think that's flat out false, Grossmann is far, far worse than Schenn. Schenn can make the simple first pass. He's not gonna set up odd man rushes with two-zone passes,

Not very often, but sometimes.

[NHL]577337[/NHL]

 

[Beef Invictus]

Haha, yeah, that pass is the only one I can remember. It jumps out of me because of who it was.

 

[Tripod]

I can't help it, but every time I look Schenn I see that it could be JVR on our 1st line or Yandle instead.

That being said, I keep Schenn over Grossmann. Maybe we should try Schenn with Coburn in a purely shutdown pairing like we did with Coburn and Grossmann 2 years ago.not hen have Streit and MacD then Kimmo with Alt.

 

[flyershockey]

One or two nice stretch passes in two years is not a trend. I could find a pretty goal or two from Jody Shelley. Is he a goal scorer?

I'm with Prongo. I'm done with the Schenn/Grossmann experience.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I can't help it, but every time I look Schenn I see that it could be JVR on our 1st line or Yandle instead.

Yandle was never coming here nor anywhere else but Phoenix for that matter. Phoenix wanted JVR plus two additional value pieces. Phoenix has never been really serious about trading Yandle hence why he's still there & why the rumored prices were always jacked up.

 

[Curufinwe]

That Yandle rumor came from Timmy P and him alone. It's bollocks.

 

[Funf]

Next year should be one of Schenn's good years though, right?

Like it was said above me, Schenn's first pass is lightyears ahead of Grossmann's. Grossmann's was bad, until Malkin scrambled his brains, which resulted in it getting even worse. Schenn's issue is his skating. He can rarely put himself into a position to make that first pass, but when he does, it's generally solid.

Our forwards also did a generally terrible job at putting themselves in a good position to accept a pass, or support the D at all. It get better under Berube, but I think it's an area that the team can improve on next year.

 

[Striiker]

LSchenn is fine, people exaggerate his weaknesses far too much.

 

[mja]

We always look at our defensemen for what they aren't rather than for what they are. It goes back to the latter half of Desjardins' tenure with the Flyers, when people started to irrationally hate him for not being Chris Pronger or Brian Leetch. It drives me insane.

We have a deeply flawed defense, there is no question about it. It's been deeply flawed since Pronger went down. However, we have some talent on the blue line. Each of these guys brings something that is useful if only we're able to adjust the mix. This isn't to say that would should keep everybody, only that every player that half the fanbase considers to be a borderline NHL defenseman is actually much more than that.

 

[Tripod]

Playing better team defense and having a 4th line that can play will also help our D. I am praying Hextall can pull a rabbit out if his hat.

 

[Prongo]

You know what helps a better team defense....Ryan O'Reilly.... just saying.

 

[Schmidty324]

LSchenn is fine, people exaggerate his weaknesses far too much.

Just needs a puck mover who isn't horrible on defense. Played well with Timonen lockout year, and was best with Gus this year.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

That Yandle rumor came from Timmy P and him alone. It's bollocks.

Maybe so from the Flyers end but Yandle was connected to the Pens that summer as well & the asking price was similar (3 value pieces).

 

[Curufinwe]

I meant Timmy's rumor that Yandle was available straight up for JVR and the Flyers picked LSchenn instead.