Salary Cap: What to do with Matt Murray (poll)

[HandshakeLine]

$7-8MM is too high. Both combined should be around $5MM.

That’s not exactly realistic, but being said, I’d much rather platoon MM and TJ for 8.5 than have a more expensive goalie at 7 million with a league minimum backup.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Keep him, extend him long term and reevaluate which goalie should be the #1 when the expansion draft comes

This. Unless Murray's asking for something ridiculous -- which I don't think he will given his struggles this season -- there's no point in dealing him just because Jarry had one good season (and we're making the assumption Jarry continues to play like this all season). Carrying two capable starters isn't a bad thing.

 

[cygnus47]

I just want to quietly remind people that Jarry has played 14 games this season. He's looked fantastic, but it's 14 games behind a really good team defense. Goalies have great runs. Might wanna hold your horses on immediately trading the guy that won you 2 cups in a row while looking nigh on unbeatable. Not saying that isn't the eventual right decision, but seriously chill.

 

[ncm7772]

I just want to quietly remind people that Jarry has played 14 games this season. He's looked fantastic, but it's 14 games behind a really good team defense. Goalies have great runs. Might wanna hold your horses on immediately trading the guy that won you 2 cups in a row while looking nigh on unbeatable. Not saying that isn't the eventual right decision, but seriously chill.

THANK YOU.

No slight at Jarry, but again: 14 GAMES.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Jarry's stats in both the NHL and the AHL prior to this season haven't been anything to write home about either.

 

[T1K]

Trade him during the off-season if there’s a good enough market for him. If we trade our 1st for a rental this year we could potentially recoup a 1st+ at the draft for Murray, all while saving cap space. Seems like solid asset management to me.

 

[ChaosAgent]

THANK YOU.

No slight at Jarry, but again: 14 GAMES.

Matt Murray Stats and News

Take a quick gander at how many Matt Murray played in '15-'16 when they made him our #1 for the playoffs.

When ya know ya know.

 

[ncm7772]

Matt Murray Stats and News

Take a quick gander at how many Matt Murray played in '15-'16 when they made him our #1 for the playoffs.

When ya know ya know.

Fail to see your point, friend. Murray played a full season in 2016-17 before the expansion draft. Different scenario.

We’re discussing the possibility of moving Murray in this thread. Not who the #1 netminder should be.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Fail to see your point, friend. Murray played a full season in 2016-17 before the expansion draft. Different scenario.

We’re discussing the possibility of moving Murray in this thread. Not who the #1 netminder should be.

I get what you're saying, but...

Murray is going to demand #1 money. If he's not the #1 guy here, he shouldn't get it. If he does get it, we better make sure we can leave him unprotected in the expansion draft in a year or just move him generally should his play warrant it.

My actual vote is to have patience and let this thing play out through this season. The poll here is to get a feel for which way people would lean if the season were to end today given what Murray, Jarry and DeSmith have shown us so far.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Matt Murray Stats and News

Take a quick gander at how many Matt Murray played in '15-'16 when they made him our #1 for the playoffs.

When ya know ya know.

Don't you remember that Fleury had a concussion and that's why he didn't start in the playoffs? Murray did too, but he came back sooner than Fleury did. And then he was playing really well, so it didn't make sense to take him out until he faltered. And then when he did in the Tampa series, Sullivan put Fleury in, but he played badly, so Murray started the next game.

This wasn't that long ago.

 

[66-30-33]

Option 2.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Both Murray and POJ gained weight this summer. Also, Murray has gone nearly a full calendar year without an injury.

Last I heard Murray was sporting 178 lbs, over his listed 175. And these guys lose weight during the season. Let's also see if Murray goes a full hockey year without an injury. I'm pretty sure it has never happened.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The fact that HFPens went from "we can't trade DeSmith because we need to have a better backup than Jarry" to "we should trade Murray and make Jarry the #1 goalie" because of a 15 game run by Jarry really shows that this place shouldn't be commenting on goaltending

 

[EightyOne]

The fact that HFPens went from "we can't trade DeSmith because we need to have a better backup than Jarry" to "we should trade Murray and make Jarry the #1 goalie" because of a 15 game run by Jarry really shows that this place shouldn't be commenting on goaltending

So...players can't grow and players can't regress?

Especially in a volatile position like goaltending?

 

[Peat]

As of now, my lean is that I'd prefer to have two good goalies than one if I can afford it, and I imagine I probably can, but that's about it.

So...players can't grow and players can't regress?

Especially in a volatile position like goaltending?

They can, but 15 games isn't really enough time to speak with confidence.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So...players can't grow and players can't regress?

Especially in a volatile position like goaltending?

You know that's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that the fact that HFBoards is hyper-reactionary about goaltending, which is exactly what making that jump over a 2 month span is, shows that HFPens shouldn't talk about goaltending.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I believe there's absolutely no right answer in this question except to show patience. That said, people do forget how players can come out of nowhere on occasion, so it's a bit of a silver lining that Murray's struggled lately so that we can actually get an idea of what we have in Jarry.

 

[ncm7772]

The fact that HFPens went from "we can't trade DeSmith because we need to have a better backup than Jarry" to "we should trade Murray and make Jarry the #1 goalie" because of a 15 game run by Jarry really shows that this place shouldn't be commenting on goaltending

Well, not saying they shouldn’t comment. Thinking they should possibly reserve their neurotic, frantically intense goaltending opinions until a larger sample size develops.

Ugh. Hate that term, “sample size”. Pleh!

 

[Louis Hensler]

As of now, my lean is that I'd prefer to have two good goalies than one if I can afford it, and I imagine I probably can, but that's about it.



They can, but 15 games isn't really enough time to speak with confidence.

Jarry also started 23 games two years ago and was 14-6-2 on a team that didn't play very well in front of him. He's also been very solid overall in the AHL. His pedigree is as good as Murray's, he just hasn't had the same opportunity. I'm not saying we know enough to crown Jarry the #1, I'm just saying that between Jarry and CDS, we know enough to cut Murray loose IF he demands elite money when he has not been a consistently elite performer.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jarry also started 23 games two years ago and was 14-6-2 on a team that didn't play very well in front of him. He's also been very solid overall in the AHL. His pedigree is as good as Murray's, he just hasn't had the same opportunity. I'm not saying we know enough to crown Jarry the #1, I'm just saying that between Jarry and CDS, we know enough to cut Murray loose IF he demands elite money when he has not been a consistently elite performer.

I mean, that's an objectively false statement. Jarry was a good prospect who was decent in the NHL and pretty good in the AHL. Murray was a decent prospect who literally set records in the AHL and set the NHL on fire.

 

[ncm7772]

So...players can't grow and players can't regress?

Especially in a volatile position like goaltending?

They certainly can, but we’re talking about 21 and 14 games.

Certainly something we can discuss, but again; 21 and 14 games.

 

[Louis Hensler]

I mean, that's an objectively false statement. Jarry was a good prospect who was decent in the NHL and pretty good in the AHL. Murray was a decent prospect who literally set records in the AHL and set the NHL on fire.

Jarry was drafted higher than Murray. Both played well in the AHL, Murray played more there and better. By "set the NHL on fire" I suppose you mean that Murray had two strong Cup runs (with big assists from Fleury both times -- Murray never carried the team on his back for any length of time). Since then, Murray had one strong 1/2 season. That's it. He has more of a track record than Jarry, but I'm not seeing that it's definitively better. If Murray "set the NHL on fire," then I suppose Jarry's in the middle of doing that now. The Pens have three legitimate NHL level goalies. It would be great to keep all three. Murray is good when he's good, but he's the least consistent of the three. He's not elite. The Pens can't afford to pay him as though he is.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jarry was drafted higher than Murray. Both played well in the AHL, Murray played more there and better. By "set the NHL on fire" I suppose you mean that Murray had two strong Cup runs (with big assists from Fleury both times -- Murray never carried the team on his back for any length of time). Since then, Murray had one strong 1/2 season. That's it. He has more of a track record than Jarry, but I'm not seeing that it's definitively better. If Murray "set the NHL on fire," then I suppose Jarry's in the middle of doing that now. The Pens have three legitimate NHL level goalies. It would be great to keep all three. Murray is good when he's good, but he's the least consistent of the three. He's not elite. The Pens can't afford to pay him as though he is.

This is a blatant misrepresentation of how good Murray was. Like this is pure fiction, this is all just false.

 

[T1K]

The fact that HFPens went from "we can't trade DeSmith because we need to have a better backup than Jarry" to "we should trade Murray and make Jarry the #1 goalie" because of a 15 game run by Jarry really shows that this place shouldn't be commenting on goaltending

Player values fluctuate all the time. You’re being a bit disingenuous to Jarry’s impact. From what I’ve seen in this thread (not much) very few people are not advocating that we make a decision until the offseason. Assuming Jarry/Murray split the remaining games somewhat evenly, that’s not enough of a sample size to make a decision about one of them?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Player values fluctuate all the time. You’re being a bit disingenuous to Jarry’s impact. From what I’ve seen in this thread (not much) very few people are not advocating that we make a decision until the offseason. Assuming Jarry/Murray split the remaining games somewhat evenly, that’s not enough of a sample size to make a decision about one of them?

Making a decision this off-season is still ridiculously reactionary. Even suggesting trading Murray this off-season is ridiculous to me. It's the same way that trading Fleury after the 2016 cup win would have been ridiculous, and that's pretending that Jarry will have the same impact that 2016 Murray had.