Player Discussion: What to do with Lemieux?

[roccerfeller]

I think Lemieux is one of those guys who just needs time on the ice, and will get better with more games. He's really in his first proper NHL season this year, and his good games have been really encouraging imo

Our PP sucks because its super static and we have zero adjustments. The teams now sit in the passing lanes and dare Wheeler to shoot. What really blows my mind is why the Jets coaching staff that switching Laine and Shief would fix that....same passing lanes!

That being said I have really really liked Lemieux's game over the last 5-6. He is attacking now, playing more like he did in the AHL.

Hopefully Buff's return will reinvigorate the PP

 

[Eyeseeing]

Lemieux is in the line up to stay I think that’s becoming abundantly clear.
I’m waiting for another mental meltdown at an inopportune time.
I think as the games become more important the other teams coaches will plan for this scenario.

 

[Whileee]

While Lemieux has been scoring, he's still been a defensive disaster, only outshooting the opposition once in that albatross game against Nashville.

1) Dallas (2-4) CF%=47.06 (8-9)
2) Nashville (5-1) CF%=78.57 (11-3)
3) Vegas (4-1) CF%=25.00 (2-6)
4) Anaheim (4-3) CF%=38.46 (5-8)
5) Detroit (4-2) CF%=10.00 (1-9)

Last 20 games Lemieux is at 52% CF, 6th among Jets forwards, ahead of Perreault, Wheeler, Scheifele, etc.

I think that same is a better representation of his recent play, and quite possibly a better indicator of his future performance than his first 20 NHL games.

 

[KingBogo]

Lemieux is in the line up to stay I think that’s becoming abundantly clear.
I’m waiting for another mental meltdown at an inopportune time.
I think as the games become more important the other teams coaches will plan for this scenario.

It is an interesting question, can Lemieux mature as a player who can maintain an edge while be disciplined? Other than the incident against Florida he has walked this line pretty well, especially as a rookie. And if you have other coaches game plan to try and throw a 4th liner onto tilt and he is able to continue to walk that line that will be a huge edge for the Jets.

 

[Eyeseeing]

It is an interesting question, can Lemieux mature as a player who can maintain an edge while be disciplined? Other than the incident against Florida he has walked this line pretty well, especially as a rookie. And if you have other coaches game plan to try and throw a 4th liner onto tilt and he is able to continue to walk that line that will be a huge edge for the Jets.

True as long as it doesn’t involve injuries to our stars

 

[KingBogo]

True as long as it doesn’t involve injuries to our stars

I don't think any team in the NHL will take on the strategy to try and physically intimidate the Jets. We are not a small team, or one that can easily be pushed around.

 

[ffh]

people are over rating Lemieux and his lack of discipline. not even in the florida game was he running around undisciplined. he tried to make a hit and missed. trying to hit someone and missing is not being undisciplined. if he was like that he would be taking 1 or 2 bad penalties a game. he does no such thing.

 

[PhilJets]

I believe at the same age as Tanev now, he will be a better version but nastier!!

Keep him

 

[Jet]

I know what he was saying. But there is no “new age narrative”. Just people that like to bury their heads in the sand. I think he’s the one who’s been missing the point judging from his post.

P.S. You liked Lemieux whether he was effective or not. The goal is to win. If he’s not effective he’s not helping. If he’s effective, he’s helping. It’s literally THAT simple.

There absolutely IS a new age narrative whether you believe it or not. It is extremely prevalent in the fandom space right now (probably less so in the actual professional arena).

If you look at my history with Lemieux I didn't like him whether he was effective or not. I believe a player who plays the style he does is best suited on the 4th line for a very high skill team such as ours where we do lack a bit of size with some of our wingers. When he had that meltdown in Finland I openly questioned whether he could control himself enough to be a useful player for us. Since then, he has shown excellent control and really worked on doing the kinds of things his dad did to help those teams win.

I am very transparent in my beliefs on here. I do not flip flop, hide my true thoughts, but at the same time I do not form concrete opinions about players as I do believe they can change, improve and grow.

 

[Jet]

Lemieux is in the line up to stay I think that’s becoming abundantly clear.
I’m waiting for another mental meltdown at an inopportune time.
I think as the games become more important the other teams coaches will plan for this scenario.

I think with a player like Lemieux, he is bound to have 'meltdowns' or do stupid shit from time to time. What the Jets need to consider is whether the net benefit is positive. I think he's gone a long way in redeeming himself from Finland but I guess time will tell.

 

[Duke749]

There absolutely IS a new age narrative whether you believe it or not. It is extremely prevalent in the fandom space right now (probably less so in the actual professional arena).

If you look at my history with Lemieux I didn't like him whether he was effective or not. I believe a player who plays the style he does is best suited on the 4th line for a very high skill team such as ours where we do lack a bit of size with some of our wingers. When he had that meltdown in Finland I openly questioned whether he could control himself enough to be a useful player for us. Since then, he has shown excellent control and really worked on doing the kinds of things his dad did to help those teams win.

I am very transparent in my beliefs on here. I do not flip flop, hide my true thoughts, but at the same time I do not form concrete opinions about players as I do believe they can change, improve and grow.

There’s only a narrative for people who can’t actually move forward and just want to use out dated ways to evaluate players as if the league and game hasn’t evolved over the years.

 

[ffh]

nhl teams rely more on that out dated way more then just raw data when evaluating players. always have always will. look at the 3 most heated debates around here for years and those using those out dated ways are right on petan right on dano right on tanev and trending right on Lemieux. by right I mean being everyday nhl players.

 

[ps241]

I think with a player like Lemieux, he is bound to have 'meltdowns' or do stupid **** from time to time. What the Jets need to consider is whether the net benefit is positive. I think he's gone a long way in redeeming himself from Finland but I guess time will tell.

Murat Ates wrote a very interesting article in the Athletic and he and his guest addressed this exact Lemmy v Lil’Nic debate. Good food for thought.

 

[DJBiffWPG]

I'd be curious to see the supporting evidence on that one. In truth he has been trending upward as of late. Against Nashville he had maybe the best stats line on the team on top of scoring twice so how did he make the Jets worse every single shift?

PDO is a wonderful thing isn’t it?

 

[DJBiffWPG]

I think the posts above clearly illustrate the opposite

Look up the numbers. He’s real bad with an inflated shooting %

 

[KingBogo]

PDO is a wonderful thing isn’t it?

So that is your proof he makes the team worse every single shift he plays?

 

[DJBiffWPG]

So that is your proof he makes the team worse every single shift he plays?

Go look up all of his shot metrics and analytics. He’s dead weight on every line he’s on.

He’s very good in front of the net he has been since junior but everywhere on the ice he drags the team down.

 

[KingBogo]

Go look up all of his shot metrics and analytics. He’s dead weight on every line he’s on.

He’s very good in front of the net he has been since junior but everywhere on the ice he drags the team down.

Just this morning Whileee posted that over his last 20 games Lemieux is 6th on the Jets with a 52% CF. Does this make him a dead weight over this period?

 

[ffh]

Look up the numbers. He’s real bad with an inflated shooting %

are you saying the player that isn't good enough to have a shooting percentage is the better option.

 

[Whileee]

Go look up all of his shot metrics and analytics. He’s dead weight on every line he’s on.

He’s very good in front of the net he has been since junior but everywhere on the ice he drags the team down.

A more accurate assessment would be that he struggled in the majority of his first 20 games in the NHL, as reflected by poor shot metrics, but he's been considerably improved over the more recent 20 games, as shown by good shot metrics over that time period.

 

[GaryPoppins]

I think with a player like Lemieux, he is bound to have 'meltdowns' or do stupid **** from time to time. What the Jets need to consider is whether the net benefit is positive. I think he's gone a long way in redeeming himself from Finland but I guess time will tell.

If you haven't noticed, a ton of our roster takes dumb penalties and does stupid shit... The rest of the roster is not immune

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

A more accurate assessment would be that he struggled in the majority of his first 20 games in the NHL, as reflected by poor shot metrics, but he's been considerably improved over the more recent 20 games, as shown by good shot metrics over that time period.

Just this morning Whileee posted that over his last 20 games Lemieux is 6th on the Jets with a 52% CF. Does this make him a dead weight over this period?

Depends where you look. nhl.com has him at 50.62 in his last 20 games. FYI those are sheltered minutes and the least amount of TOI or average TOI of any Jets player. He also leads the team in penalty minutes over the past 20 games, which includes two major penalties.

He's had a few nice offensive plays, the best of which being that power move from behind the net, but those attempting to make a case for improved defensive play off a 20 game sample size using CF% are grasping at straws.

Just as pertinent would be the fact he's 43%CF in his last 10 which included a 10%CF game and two 25%CF games.

 

[Duke749]

Depends where you look. nhl.com has him at 50.62 in his last 20 games. FYI those are sheltered minutes and the least amount of TOI or average TOI of any Jets player. He also leads the team in penalty minutes over the past 20 games, which includes two major penalties.

He's had a few nice offensive plays, the best of which being that power move from behind the net, but those attempting to make a case for improved defensive play off a 20 game sample size using CF% are grasping at straws.

Just as pertinent would be the fact he's 43%CF in his last 10 which included a 10%CF game and two 25%CF games.

Ok how much of that is from fighting or that one Florida game? I’m not so much concerned with total penalty minutes as how much has he put us short handed.

I still we have to give some credit for some improvement and managing to score. The kid still has a long way to go and has to improve his consistency.

 

[KingBogo]

Depends where you look. nhl.com has him at 50.62 in his last 20 games. FYI those are sheltered minutes and the least amount of TOI or average TOI of any Jets player. He also leads the team in penalty minutes over the past 20 games, which includes two major penalties.

He's had a few nice offensive plays, the best of which being that power move from behind the net, but those attempting to make a case for improved defensive play off a 20 game sample size using CF% are grasping at straws.

Just as pertinent would be the fact he's 43%CF in his last 10 which included a 10%CF game and two 25%CF games.

I think what has become clear, is that Lemieux has graduated up to the Jets. It seems very likely that he will be the #12 forward going forward. To me at least it is a bit telling that Appleton was sent back to the Moose to get games in over the player and all star break. I expect Lemieux to be a regular in the lineup unless he gets pushed aside by a TD pickup. For now he will be groomed as a 4th line agitator/s*** disturber/net crasher, and if he does that while walking the "staying in control" line and keeps scoring he will cement himself there.

 

[ffh]

I think what has become clear, is that Lemieux has graduated up to the Jets. It seems very likely that he will be the #12 forward going forward. To me at least it is a bit telling that Appleton was sent back to the Moose to get games in over the player and all star break. I expect Lemieux to be a regular in the lineup unless he gets pushed aside by a TD pickup. For now he will be groomed as a 4th line agitator/s*** disturber/net crasher, and if he does that while walking the "staying in control" line and keeps scoring he will cement himself there.

you say "staying in control" what exactly does that mean with regards to Lemieux.other then that finland game where would you say he wasn't "staying in control". that's 41 nhl games now. what other game is there. and even in that game he was very much stayed in control till he tried to make a hit and missed . it happens all the time. its happened to trouba more. he concussed 2 players missing the same hit. stone and landeskog. has he even gotten 1 penalty charging from behind and hitting someone into the boards like a lot of these out of control players get like Wilson or Bortuzzo.