What Needs to Happen This Offseason?

[Foppa2118]

Rookies almost always hit a wall at somepoint during the season. Teams get NHL tape on a kid and start exploiting their weaknesses. Happens all the time. Bigras hitting a wall was expected. How he adapts over the summer and early in next season will be important. He will be fine.

I don't think Bigras hit a wall. The timing was perfectly aligned with him being put in a first pairing role with EJ. He just wasn't ready for that.

He'll be just fine in the future, but it proved they can't rely on him playing a big role next year. He should probably start on the 3rd pairing again, just with more minutes because hopefully he'll have a more responsible partner the coaching staff can trust.

I understsnd sending down Zadorov instead of Bigras because that's what they thought was best for his development, but I thought he ended the year ahead of Bigras, based on how he looked with Beauch in his short stint in a top role, and down the stretch. I'd feel comfortable penciling him into a 2nd pairing role with a reliable partner like Beauch/Hamonic next year, if they find a good LD to play with EJ (not Holden).

 

[McMetal]

Morgan Rielly just received a 6 years $30million dollar contract. He has played basically as many games as Barrie, and Barrie has outproduced him by a fair margin. Likely Rielly is better defensively by a fair margin. I think the $5million tag is pretty fair since Barrie is never going to be a #1 type guy and will always be an offense first guy.

Do we resign Barrie if he refuses to sign unless its for more than $5million per season?

I'd go as high as 5.75 max. We need that kind of dynamic puck mover on the back end in a bad way. There's no way he can earn more than that reasonably from us with a -16 (worse than his partner). Worst case we go to arbitration, get a bridge deal, sour the relationship and expose him in the expansion draft.

 

[AslanRH]

It's in the best interest of players on LTIR to remain in it versus retirement. Players under contract get their medical bills payed by the team. Retired players have to pay out of their pockets. And cap wise it's better for the team. It's win win for both sides.

ok....did something in my post contradict that?

 

[CobraAcesS]

I don't think Bigras hit a wall. The timing was perfectly aligned with him being put in a first pairing role with EJ. He just wasn't ready for that.

He'll be just fine in the future, but it proved they can't rely on him playing a big role next year. He should probably start on the 3rd pairing again, just with more minutes because hopefully he'll have a more responsible partner the coaching staff can trust.

I understsnd sending down Zadorov instead of Bigras because that's what they thought was best for his development, but I thought he ended the year ahead of Bigras, based on how he looked with Beauch in his short stint in a top role, and down the stretch. I'd feel comfortable penciling him into a 2nd pairing role with a reliable partner like Beauch/Hamonic next year, if they find a good LD to play with EJ (not Holden).

Bigras did seem to be dealing with some minor injuries here and there at the end as well. Out with a foot injury, and a concussion.

While he had some hiccups, I thought he performed admirably considering the position he was put in.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I'd go as high as 5.75 max. We need that kind of dynamic puck mover on the back end in a bad way. There's no way he can earn more than that reasonably from us with a -16 (worse than his partner). Worst case we go to arbitration, get a bridge deal, sour the relationship and expose him in the expansion draft.

Trade before exposing him to the exp draft

 

[Freaky Styley]

Barring any major moves (if we are throwing money at anyone, I hope it's Ladd), I would like us to clean out the dead weight on D and sign a guy like Schenn or Polak. Polak is safer but Schenn is younger and both have played well from what I've watched this playoffs. Have the defense pairings look something like:

Bigras - Johnson
Beauchemin - Barrie
Zadorov - Polak/Schenn
Gelinas

The lefties can rotate up and down depending on how Bigras handles the big role right away but having a guy like Polak could really help Zadorov early on. My only other wants would be to trade Iggy back to Calgary to retire and pick up some big name winger in the form of Radulov or Drouin. Realistically the goaltender situation won't be worked out until the deadline because Varly's value is at an all time low and Picks isn't ready to take the load.

 

[the_fan]

Pickard is more ready to be #1 goalie than Bigras on top pairing. I mean if i was given two options and i could only pick one, i'd pick Pickard #1 goalie instead of Bigras on top pair. I don't know what gives you people the idea that Bigras is a top pair material, not only he didn't look like a top 2 but he didn't even look NHL ready at all. You put him on top pair next year and the Avs are certainly headed for a top 3 pick.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I think Zadorov is better fit for heavier minutes right now than Bigras. When you look at the numbers, Zadorov was really not sheltered at all when he was in the NHL, especially compared to Bigras, and he came out with better possession numbers. Small sample sizes for both, but it's just interesting. Bigras will hopefully get stronger this summer and that will help his game a lot. He hit a wall towards the end, which isn't surprising in his first pro year.

I know it's highly unlikely to happen, but I'd love to see a Zadorov/EJ pairing tried. The size, reach, and skating ability between the two would be interesting to watch.

Really, if they play the kids and find a way to get rid of Holden (or upgrade), then I'll be happy. I'm not expecting a huge pickup, or that much change. They've got to commit and let both the young D just play and work out the problems in the NHL.

 

[cgf]

Ladd and Backes's next contracts are going to end up worse than Iginla's for which ever team signs them. Rads is the guy we need, and he won't kill you on the backend of his deal.

 

[the_fan]

I think Zadorov is better fit for heavier minutes right now than Bigras. When you look at the numbers, Zadorov was really not sheltered at all when he was in the NHL, especially compared to Bigras, and he came out with better possession numbers. Small sample sizes for both, but it's just interesting. Bigras will hopefully get stronger this summer and that will help his game a lot.

I know it's highly unlikely to happen, but I'd love to see a Zadorov/EJ pairing tried. The size, reach, and skating ability between the two would be interesting to watch.

Really, if they play the kids and find a way to get rid of Holden (or upgrade), then I'll be happy. I'm not expecting a huge pickup, or that much change.

One of the reasons if not the biggest reason this team has sucked for so long is because they keep putting people in wrong places specially on that blue line. They've been giving big minutes to d-men who don't even belong in the NHL then wonder why they sucked so bad.

I'm not saying Bigras and Zadorov wont become NHL players, but they both wont be top pair d-men even if they reach their top potential, they'll probably be #3 or #4. It's really time for this team to stop experimenting and start fixing things. When Beauchemin is done in couple of years or whenever, this team needs to find a legit top pairing d-man.

EJ is a good top pairing guy, but he's not Keith or Doughty to give him a so so partner and expect to win, in the perfect world EJ would be a #2 partnering a true #1 guy, it's just too bad this organization does't have the eye or the scouts to find top notch d-men.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I think Zadorov is better fit for heavier minutes right now than Bigras. When you look at the numbers, Zadorov was really not sheltered at all when he was in the NHL, especially compared to Bigras, and he came out with better possession numbers. Small sample sizes for both, but it's just interesting. Bigras will hopefully get stronger this summer and that will help his game a lot.

I know it's highly unlikely to happen, but I'd love to see a Zadorov/EJ pairing tried. The size, reach, and skating ability between the two would be interesting to watch.

Really, if they play the kids and find a way to get rid of Holden (or upgrade), then I'll be happy. I'm not expecting a huge pickup, or that much change. They've got to commit and let both the young D just play and work out the problems in the NHL.

Maybe if Zadorov earns a bit more trust, but as of the beginning of next season. I'd say Zadorov needs FB as a mentor.

I like the idea of playing Barrie with EJ as well, and then the second paring being Zadorov & FB.

All of it revolves around upgrading Holden though.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I'd love to see Barrie and EJ together too, but it hasn't happened in 3 years, so I'm pretty sure it won't happen at any point. I just hope Barrie is here next season.

 

[cgf]

It'll be Bigras-EJ and Zads-Beauch, with Barrie having to drag along Gelinas/Holden/other-third-pairing-dman, and we'll like it.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I'd love to see Barrie and EJ together too, but it hasn't happened in 3 years, so I'm pretty sure it won't happen at any point. I just hope Barrie is here next season.

Roy was doing it in the last few games of this season quite a bit I thought?

Meh, you never know with Roy to be honest. Maybe if the other pairings made enough sense.

It'll be Bigras-EJ and Zads-Beauch, with Barrie having to drag along Gelinas/Holden/other-third-pairing-dman, and we'll like it.

Ha, if either of those two are in the top six next season Sakic has failed IMO.

 

[Iceberg]

Bigras impressed me a lot more than Zadorov.

Zadorov played his best while paired with Beauchemin, our best D. I don't think Bigras ever had that luxury.

If we go into next season with the same group we ended the year on D, i would put my money on us having the same kind of season we just had.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Bigras impressed me a lot more than Zadorov.

Zadorov played his best while paired with Beauchemin, our best D. I don't think Bigras ever had that luxury.

If we go into next season with the same group we ended the year on D, i would put my money on us having the same kind of season we just had.

First, I don't think Beauch is our best D at all. I think that was Barrie this year, and maybe that's not a popular choice. Beauch's limitations got ignored a bit on this board, and his effectiveness dropped in the second half of the year (a good bit due to overuse). He doesn't move the puck well, and he was responsible for a lot of icings this year because of it. He's really strong in the defensive zone, but his inability to break it out (whipping the puck around the boards blindly is not a breakout pass) led to a lot more time in the defensive zone than is needed.

I would agree that playing with Beauch was an advantage for Zadorov, but the trade off is that those are not easy minutes, compared to sheltered third pairing minutes. He was often starting in the defensive zone (which the #'s show) and facing top 6 forwards on the other team.

It's entirely possible the Avs are in the same position next year as they are right now, but I'd rather they do that with young guys than stop gap solutions. I don't think we'll have the cap room to make significant upgrades defensively, so at least the young guys have room to grow.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Pickard is more ready to be #1 goalie than Bigras on top pairing. I mean if i was given two options and i could only pick one, i'd pick Pickard #1 goalie instead of Bigras on top pair. I don't know what gives you people the idea that Bigras is a top pair material, not only he didn't look like a top 2 but he didn't even look NHL ready at all. You put him on top pair next year and the Avs are certainly headed for a top 3 pick.

I didn't say it'd be ideal or that it would stick. I fully expect the left handers to be rotated and even see a Beauch - youngster pairing at some point. But given each players style and handedness those are the best looking pairings. It's a lot easier/less impactful for Bigras to try ~20 games on the top pairing than having Pickard the go to guy for ~60 games.

 

[agentblack]

Yeah if we are gonna go down this road of playing the kids (in theory) 75+ games I wouldnt be that upset if we are in the same position next year tbh.

At least they develop and get better for the future and we can build on it.

If we signed a bunch of FAs and are still in the same spot that will be horrible.

 

[cgf]

Roy was doing it in the last few games of this season quite a bit I thought?

Meh, you never know with Roy to be honest. Maybe if the other pairings made enough sense.



Ha, if either of those two are in the top six next season Sakic has failed IMO.

Eh. Don't get me wrong, I was hoping we'd be able to get a Polak/Gudas/Gryba at the TDL for much of this season; but 1 bottom pairing dmen shouldn't kill your team, and Holden/Gelinas are fine third pairing guys if they're not asked to do too much and legitimately pushing one another for PT. Biegs & Peacock are gunna have to be big for us, and we need to hope that EJ & Beauch don't break, but that defense has enough raw talent and at some point we're going to have to trust those kids in big roles...and hopefully that happens before the vets around them break down. Both showed signs that they'd be ready after another offseason to learn on the job without having their confidence shattered, and I'm very bullish on both.

I'm much more worried about getting Rads & bringing Matthias back without doing something stupid like trading Varly.

 

[cgf]

Being the starting goalie who plays entire games, is different than being one of 6 dmen who play in a game. It's much easier to easy a young player into one of these roles than it is the other.

 

[Iceberg]

First, I don't think Beauch is our best D at all. I think that was Barrie this year. Beauch's limitations got ignored a bit on this board, and his effectiveness dropped in the second half of the year (a good bit due to overuse). He doesn't move the puck well, and he was responsible for a lot of icings this year because of it. He's really strong in the defensive zone, but his inability to break it out (whipping the puck around the boards blindly is not a breakout pass) led to a lot more time in the defensive zone than is needed.

I would agree that playing with Beauch was an advantage for Zadorov, but the trade off is that those are not easy minutes, compared to sheltered third pairing minutes. He was often starting in the defensive zone (which the #'s show) and facing top 6 forwards on the other team.

It's entirely possible the Avs are in the same position next year as they are right now, but I'd rather they do that with young guys than stop gap solutions. I don't think we'll have the cap room to make significant upgrades defensively, so at least the young guys have room to grow.

Beauchemin is by far our most dependable D men, and that was an advantage for Zadorov, IMO. In his first stint Zadorov looked much worse when he had to spend time with the likes of Guenin, Stuart, Holden and even Barrie for a game.

Maybe the difference between the two stints was the result of his improved play or regained confidence, but i think it had more to do with his partner. I believe the results wouldn't be the same if he had played with EJ instead of Beauch, for instance.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Eh. Don't get me wrong, I was hoping we'd be able to get a Polak/Gudas/Gryba at the TDL for much of this season; but 1 bottom pairing dmen shouldn't kill your team, and Holden/Gelinas are fine third pairing guys if they're not asked to do too much. Biegs & Peacock are gunna have to be big for us, and we need to hope that EJ & Beauch don't break, but that defense has enough raw talent.

I'm much more worried about getting Rads & bringing Matthias back without doing something stupid like trading Varly.

That depends really on the bottom pairing guy is, but I don't have any faith in Holden or Gelinas.

Holden also is too easy for Roy to divert to if one of the kids has some hiccups IMO. Then if Gelinas ends up in the same place as Redmond with Roy, now you have a third pairing D Roy only trusts for less than 10 minutes a night dragging Bigras's minutes down.

I know you don't like the idea of trading Varlamov, but I have serious doubts they like what hes done in the last two years for his contract, and with the expansion draft factored in.

Personally I'd put Varly at about 75% as to the possibility of being traded.

Varly 75% Hes been too inconsistent for the money he makes and there is actually a market for him. Then there is Pickard's play thus far.
Barrie 30% We need to add defense, not take away from it
Duchene 25% Finding a deal worth it will be difficult

Holden 60% Because of Gelinas, and money in general
Berra 60% Because of Pickard, and hes not a good enough backup if Varly is traded
Mitchell 30% They only need to trade him if they have too, and the center depth isn't great

MacKinnon & Landeskog are probably like 5 or 10%

 

[tigervixxxen]

They are going to have to do it at some point, I would have preferred just rolling Bigras and Zadorov this year to put them in a better position to hit the ground running next year but they got caught up in the short term. It's not an experiment, they are the future. It's possible one or both just won't work out but we don't know that until they try it. And if they don't we have a whole lot more problems anyway. Zadorov whenever he was here got near 20 minutes at least so I don't think they are going to ease him in on a third pair or anything. I could see them stick Bigras with that to start. I'll be completely shocked if Bigras and Zadorov are both in the top 4 to start the season, the hope is they can end up there. I know there's ways to do it but I'm saying realistically what's going to happen. I don't know how you distribute EJ, Beauch and Barrie then because I agree Roy doesn't see Barrie with EJ holding down that sort of role. They are going to use a crutch of some sort, of its not Beauch next year I don't know. If Holden is still here, which I assume he will be, I wouldn't be shocked to me see something like

Holden-EJ
Zadorov-Beauch
Bigras-Barrie

Then they don't have to play the third pair 10 minutes a game, they can be fed more minutes and when they are down they can play Barrie more like they do anyway but I could see them cut his 5v5 minutes down.

 

[CobraAcesS]

They are going to have to do it at some point, I would have preferred just rolling Bigras and Zadorov this year to put them in a better position to hit the ground running next year but they got caught up in the short term. It's not an experiment, they are the future. It's possible one or both just won't work out but we don't know that until they try it. And if they don't we have a whole lot more problems anyway. Zadorov whenever he was here got near 20 minutes at least so I don't think they are going to ease him in on a third pair or anything. I could see them stick Bigras with that to start. I'll be completely shocked if Bigras and Zadorov are both in the top 4 to start the season, the hope is they can end up there. I know there's ways to do it but I'm saying realistically what's going to happen. I don't know how you distribute EJ, Beauch and Barrie then because I agree Roy doesn't see Barrie with EJ holding down that sort of role. They are going to use a crutch of some sort, of its not Beauch next year I don't know. If Holden is still here, which I assume he will be, I wouldn't be shocked to me see something like

Holden-EJ
Zadorov-Beauch
Bigras-Barrie

Then they don't have to play the third pair 10 minutes a game, they can be fed more minutes and when they are down they can play Barrie more like they do anyway but I could see them cut his 5v5 minutes down.

That makes me want to go buy a revolver so I can play Russian roulette by myself in a public bathroom at the Pepsi Center. I'll leave a note on the door that says "**** you Roy" as well.

That's like having a cut on your arm, and stabbing yourself with a knife to stop the bleeding.

Vomit

 

[tigervixxxen]

That makes me want to go buy a revolver so I can play Russian roulette by myself in a public bathroom at the Pepsi Center. I'll leave a note on the door that says "**** you Roy" as well.

That's like having a cut on your arm, and stabbing yourself with a knife to stop the bleeding.

Vomit

You know its true though. It could be worse, both Zadorov and Bigras could not be in the lineup.