What Needs to Happen This Offseason?

[InjuredChoker]

They are going to have to do it at some point, I would have preferred just rolling Bigras and Zadorov this year to put them in a better position to hit the ground running next year but they got caught up in the short term. It's not an experiment, they are the future. It's possible one or both just won't work out but we don't know that until they try it. And if they don't we have a whole lot more problems anyway. Zadorov whenever he was here got near 20 minutes at least so I don't think they are going to ease him in on a third pair or anything. I could see them stick Bigras with that to start. I'll be completely shocked if Bigras and Zadorov are both in the top 4 to start the season, the hope is they can end up there. I know there's ways to do it but I'm saying realistically what's going to happen. I don't know how you distribute EJ, Beauch and Barrie then because I agree Roy doesn't see Barrie with EJ holding down that sort of role. They are going to use a crutch of some sort, of its not Beauch next year I don't know. If Holden is still here, which I assume he will be, I wouldn't be shocked to me see something like

Holden-EJ
Zadorov-Beauch
Bigras-Barrie

Then they don't have to play the third pair 10 minutes a game, they can be fed more minutes and when they are down they can play Barrie more like they do anyway but I could see them cut his 5v5 minutes down.

even though he wouldn't be traditional 3rd pair guy, i can't see avs paying barrie around 6 mil to pay on 3rd pairing.

in arbitration he would get less but i don't think that's the route they should be going with.

 

[Avs_19]

You know its true though. It could be worse, both Zadorov and Bigras could not be in the lineup.

Nah. What you posted above, with Holden on the top pairing, is about as bad as it gets.

 

[flyfysher]

You know its true though. It could be worse, both Zadorov and Bigras could not be in the lineup.

I don't think we should be surprised at the possibility that Roy rolls the same D pairings as this past season.

Play Zadorov and Bigras next year. They will have their difficulties but the only way they will grow into solid NHL D-men is if they play in this league.

Sorry TV but the idea of Holden on the first pair makes me want to barf. Holden did not and does not belong in the top 4 except for spot (I mean really occasional) duty on the second pair. Heck, Holden should not have even been playing anywhere near as many minutes as he did. It was just appalling!

 

[CobraAcesS]

You know its true though. It could be worse, both Zadorov and Bigras could not be in the lineup.

Nope, if Holden is in the starting lineup in the first game of the year. Sakic has failed this city IMO.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Y'all know this isn't what I WANT, right? Sure its possible they find some way to move on from Holden and I feel what I posted is very possible too.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Y'all know this isn't what I WANT, right? Sure its possible they find some way to move on from Holden and I feel what I posted is very possible too.

Death is also possible, lol

I know what you said has validity, I just wish it didn't. Hopefully with both Roy and Sakic admitting that they need to upgrade the defense, and with Sakic saying both Bigras and Zadorov will be here next year. That's far less of a possibility.

Because the only thing left that fits within those perimeters is upgrading on Nick Holden.

Edit : On a positive note, there is lots of flexibility in how they can run the pairings depending on if that upgrade is someone like Polak, or someone like Hamonic, or by some miracle it's Yandle. FB's flexibility helps a lot there IMO.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Y'all enjoy optimism too much

 

[CobraAcesS]

Y'all enjoy optimism too much

Hey we got a top six forward rental at the deadline, you may not count that as optimism panning out lol. However there are more than a few people here who would count it.



Personally I count the fact that Bigras and Zadorov played in the lineup at the same time during the season as an optimistic outcome as well. lol

 

[dwkdnvr]

Watching the playoffs I find my thoughts running along the same lines they did last year, and it's tough to be optimistic about the near future.

IMHO, if you look at any team that looks like they have any shot at playoff success, they all have at least 2 (and in some cases more) players that are 'better' than anyone on the Avs. 'Better' in this context being a generalized concept - basically, think where they'd be picked in a league-wide dispersal draft. This gets to be really depressing since it makes it tough not to conclude that our problems are 3-fold:
- questionable coaching and systems
- questionable depth
- questionable top-end talent

I don't mean to be down on Duchy/Landy/MacK/EJ in particular, but aside from MackK they pretty much have developed to the point that we see what they are, and they are all short of the 'elite' tier of players. Thinking this way makes me realize the degree to which Varly has probably been responsible for leveling the playing field for the last few years.


Hawks - Kane/Toews/Keith and arguably others
Kings - Kopitar/Doughty
Stars - Benn/Seguin, maybe even Spezza and Sharp (this year, anyway)
Blues - Tarasenko, maybe Pietro
Ducks - Getzlaf/Perry
Sharks - Pavelski, Burns, Couture?, probably even Thornton this year
Nashville - Weber may be the only slam-dunk
Wild - N/A since they're going to flame out

Granted, there is far more to success than just having 2 or 3 'elite' players, but it's pretty tough to argue (unless you're the 2000's vintage Devils) that you can achieve long-term success without them. And of course, you could probably make a similar list with 'supporting cast' and 'coaching/systems' and we'd likely still look rather poor in comparison.

I can't tell whether this is an argument FOR trading one of the 'core' in an attempt to get better since this core will probably top out at a 1st/2nd round exit at best, or an argument that we're already short on top-end talent as it is so trading any of it is suicide.

 

[Former Ladder]

What would everyone thing of a D setup of:

Zads - EJ
Beauch - Barrie
Bigras - ?

Holden
Gelly


I am really curious to see how a Zads - EJ pairing would fair. Beauch could be a smart and reliable partner for Barrie. Bigras gets sheltered and is allowed to continue his growth next to ? (this is probably a rotating cast of Holden, Gelly, etc. again)

 

[AvsGuy]

I've done prettymuch nothing but complain about the Avs for months now, so for a change of pace, I'd like to reminisce about how completely awesome this entire play was. Favorite moment in an otherwise dismal season for me.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

What would everyone thing of a D setup of:

Zads - EJ
Beauch - Barrie
Bigras - ?

Holden
Gelly


I am really curious to see how a Zads - EJ pairing would fair. Beauch could be a smart and reliable partner for Barrie. Bigras gets sheltered and is allowed to continue his growth next to ? (this is probably a rotating cast of Holden, Gelly, etc. again)

I think that's what it needs to be in all honesty. Bigras can phase into Barrie's partner as Beauch phases out

 

[dahrougem2]

I'd rather just pair Barrie and EJ together, play Zads with Beauch and then have Bigras on the 3rd pairing. But Roy gonna Roy, we'll see Holden playing 25 minutes next season with an "A" on his jersey

 

[CobraAcesS]

I'd rather just pair Barrie and EJ together, play Zads with Beauch and then have Bigras on the 3rd pairing. But Roy gonna Roy, we'll see Holden playing 25 minutes next season with an "A" on his jersey

How are you so high on Drouin (showing optimism) yet so 'TV' about the defense lmao?

You guys are killing me with your Nick Holden Negativity lol, someone else has to believe (and be optimistic about it) Sakic will rip that bottle from Roy's cold hands.




You do show potential in the optimism category with the Barrie - EJ paring though, so props.

 

[dahrougem2]

How are you so high on Drouin (showing optimism) yet so 'TV' about the defense lmao?

You guys are killing me with your Nick Holden Negativity lol, someone else has to believe (and be optimistic about it) Sakic will rip that bottle from Roy's cold hands.




You do show potential in the optimism category with the Barrie - EJ paring though, so props.

214 games for Nick Holden and 173 games for Nate Guenin in Avs sweaters has me so negative and worried about seeing Holden playing top-4 minutes again next season.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It's not negativity, it's called realism

 

[CobraAcesS]

214 games for Nick Holden and 173 games for Nate Guenin in Avs sweaters has me so negative and worried about seeing Holden playing top-4 minutes again next season.

Yeah me too, and then you have this one here telling me it's not even negativity. It's REALISM lol.

AHHHHHHHHHH

It's not negativity, it's called realism

 

[cgf]

Barring a Barrie-EJ pairing, I'm expecting and content with:

Woody - Kondor
Peacock - Beauch
Gelinas* - Barrie
*or Holden

Barrie's pairing seeing more minutes than a typical third pairing, with Tyson getting all of the PP time and a lot of the ozone starts...basically how Yandle's sheltered by the Rags/how he was sheltered during his good years in the desert. In a perfect world we'd add a reliable third RHD and be able to roll these pairings evenly:

Beauchemin - EJ
Bigras* - Barrie
Zadorov* - Gudas/Demers/Petry/Gryba
(Gelinas/Holden)

but I'm not getting my hopes up for that. With an offensive role for the Barrie pairing (to make it easier for him to carry Gelinas/Holden) and the minutes being very spread out, that could still develop into an effective defense as Woody & Peacock grow into those bigger roles. Early in the year Patrick will probably turn to Beauch-EJ late in games, until he trusts one of the kids enough to play with EJ in the biggest moments.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I can't stand another year of EJ and Beauch together. It doesn't work.

 

[cgf]

I can't stand another year of EJ and Beauch together. It doesn't work.

I disagree. It didn't work at the end of the season when Beauch was gassed, and it didn't work right after EJ came back from his injury & was sucking it up. But they were fine during EJ's slow start to start the season, were good together during our holiday season push, and again after EJ returned to form but before Beauch gassed. Beauch's minutes need to be managed very carefully, he should never take any shifts on the PP, and be used as sparingly on the PK as we can. But if that happens; starting the season with Beauch-EJ playing 20-22 minutes a game (EJ getting more b/c of special teams), while planning to slide Bigras up into his spot during the year, is fine by me.

...at least if Rads happens and we don't break up our core...Matthias is brought back and/or Compher is signed.

 

[Alex Jones]

Here is something I am afraid of. Over the summer the Rags will be looking to dump Staal and Girardi. They are both "character" veteran defenders with size. If we can get Stuart to LITR and Iginla dumped somewhere, it wouldnt surprise me in the least to see Sakic and Roy consider bringing one of them in, since they fit the player mold management apparently wants.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I disagree. It didn't work at the end of the season when Beauch was gassed, and it didn't work right after EJ came back from his injury & was sucking it up. But they were fine during EJ's slow start to start the season, were good together during our holiday season push, and again after EJ returned to form but before Beauch gassed. Beauch's minutes need to be managed very carefully, he should never take any shifts on the PP, and be used as sparingly on the PK as we can. But if that happens; starting the season with Beauch-EJ playing 20-22 minutes a game (EJ getting more b/c of special teams), while planning to slide Bigras up into his spot during the year, is fine by me.

...at least if Rads happens and we don't break up our core...Matthias is brought back and/or Compher is signed.

I thought their defense was lacking all year.

 

[McMetal]

Here is something I am afraid of. Over the summer the Rags will be looking to dump Staal and Girardi. They are both "character" veteran defenders with size. If we can get Stuart to LITR and Iginla dumped somewhere, it wouldnt surprise me in the least to see Sakic and Roy consider bringing one of them in, since they fit the player mold management apparently wants.

Am I the only one who sees that we're going to have the opposite problem of too many defensemen next year? EJ, Barrie, Beauchemin, Zadorov, Bigras, Holden, Stuart, Gelinas. That's 8, unless we both bury Stuart (I still don't take that for granted) and trade Holden (Gelinas basically replaces him) we'll have too many Dmen, not too few. Bigras and Zadorov are both locks for the NHL next season. My vision is:

Barrie - EJ
Beauch - Zadorov
Bigras - Gelinas
Holden

We don't really need another defenseman except for a cheap #7-8 not-Bodnarchuck, which none of the veterans/Harmonic/Yandle would be. Holden is overpaid for that #7 spot anyway, I'd rather have Siemens/Gormley playing there instead.

 

[agentblack]

Here is something I am afraid of. Over the summer the Rags will be looking to dump Staal and Girardi. They are both "character" veteran defenders with size. If we can get Stuart to LITR and Iginla dumped somewhere, it wouldnt surprise me in the least to see Sakic and Roy consider bringing one of them in, since they fit the player mold management apparently wants.

I think this became more of a certainty with the "idea" that Bigras and Zads are gonna be here full time.
If it was just one 20 y/o probably not, but both?