What is the timeline to shed this current core?

Pookie

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Oct 23, 2013
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I really like what Button said in Leafs lunch today, the bit about The impact of how other players will view the Leafs if Babcock can get Kessel going, also the part about Leafs just missing the playoff but somehow gets a high lottery pick bc of the new format….

That's like using the lottery as your retirement plan. Yes, you could finish 10th last and win the lottery. But it's weighted. And if you are 30th and lose out on all 3 weighted lotteries, you draft 4th at worst. Finish 10th, at worst you draft 14th. See the difference?

It makes sense bc if we questions the reason why The Leafs want to sign Franson bc by the time the rebuild is done, Franson will be in his 30s. Same thing can be said with Stamkos next year.

Yes, it makes absolute sense if you fear that the team isn't going to really tear this down.

There are plenty of reasons to think you are right.

  • Shanahan's contract will expire before they can compete under a real rebuild.
  • So too will his GM Brigade
  • These content driven owners are losing money. Leafs in the Playoffs sooner helps that
  • Babcock has $50M
  • And lastly, history has shown they always take short cuts. The names on the office doors may have changed but the culture of MLSE hasn't.

So you might be right. Unfortunately. And we can look forward to more of the same futility.
 

burpsalot

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
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The objective here is not about finishing in the bottom of the league. The objective should be changing the culture. I hope the Leafs objective is the latter.

Yup, no one on the Leafs management team, nor Babcock would accept not trying to do the best we can. The players will be expected to perform to the best of their abilities. If the talent we have means that ends in 20th place or 30th so be it, but the culture has to be about giving 100%, 100% of the time.
 

Canada4Gold

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
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We've been rebuilding now for 3 months. I figured it'd be all done by now :sarcasm:

There is no timeline. It'll be done when it gets done. If we can't get good deals now then the trades won't be made now.

As for actually being competitive again, that'll happen once we get enough young players to move forward and they start playing well. Think of Calgary, they started to be competitive before people thought they would be. There's no timeline to, ok we're going to stop sucking now, a la Buffalo.
 

burpsalot

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Feb 12, 2015
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We've been rebuilding now for 3 months. I figured it'd be all done by now :sarcasm:

There is no timeline. It'll be done when it gets done. If we can't get good deals now then the trades won't be made now.

As for actually being competitive again, that'll happen once we get enough young players to move forward and they start playing well. Think of Calgary, they started to be competitive before people thought they would be. There's no timeline to, ok we're going to stop sucking now, a la Buffalo.

There are times, like after a dispicable game, that I am like, "just trade them, even if it's only for a bag of pucks, trade them." But of course that would be irresponsible as a GM or management. It is their job to get the most for our assets & if they can't get the right value, then balancing the positives with the negatives with when to pull the trigger.

I am sure Shanahan would like the core moved. The problem is, other team's GMs have no interest in giving us the best value for our players. I am sure management have decided what our minimum requirements are to trade each player. At the same time, Babcock may feel he could "change" some of our core. So as management, you must also weigh the benefits of allowing Babcock to try to change them.

As an example, if Kessel sees the light & becomes a Babcock disciple (not sying he will). Works out all summer, commits to his defensive duties, plays 200' of ice & actually became a positive influence plus a 35-40 goal producer his value would sky rocket from today. The argument from other teams & it is legit is "what if" Kessel is done & is never going to produce more than 25 goals again & stays a defensive liability. Then his trade value would be next to squat & he would be virtually immovable to or by any future team. Personally, I think if he were to go to Pittsburgh he may be a 40+ goal scorer. But it is Pittsburgh that makes the gamble, dud or stud?

We just have to wait until Pittsburgh or another team become desperate enough to accept the gamble or until Kessel proves he still has it & it's not a gamble (during the season). That's the patience game we have to play, accept the bag of pucks or wait until the above happens. One thing with Pittsburgh, they are slowly running out of time as a Stanley Cup challenger & Rutherford is running out of time quicker. They may be ready to gamble.
 

Drew75

Registered User
Sep 5, 2005
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There are times, like after a dispicable game, that I am like, "just trade them, even if it's only for a bag of pucks, trade them." But of course that would be irresponsible as a GM or management. It is their job to get the most for our assets & if they can't get the right value, then balancing the positives with the negatives with when to pull the trigger.

I am sure Shanahan would like the core moved. The problem is, other team's GMs have no interest in giving us the best value for our players. I am sure management have decided what our minimum requirements are to trade each player. At the same time, Babcock may feel he could "change" some of our core. So as management, you must also weigh the benefits of allowing Babcock to try to change them.

As an example, if Kessel sees the light & becomes a Babcock disciple (not sying he will). Works out all summer, commits to his defensive duties, plays 200' of ice & actually became a positive influence plus a 35-40 goal producer his value would sky rocket from today. The argument from other teams & it is legit is "what if" Kessel is done & is never going to produce more than 25 goals again & stays a defensive liability. Then his trade value would be next to squat & he would be virtually immovable to or by any future team. Personally, I think if he were to go to Pittsburgh he may be a 40+ goal scorer. But it is Pittsburgh that makes the gamble, dud or stud?

We just have to wait until Pittsburgh or another team become desperate enough to accept the gamble or until Kessel proves he still has it & it's not a gamble (during the season). That's the patience game we have to play, accept the bag of pucks or wait until the above happens. One thing with Pittsburgh, they are slowly running out of time as a Stanley Cup challenger & Rutherford is running out of time quicker. They may be ready to gamble.

The only thing with Kessel is that I believe his value will not move (up or down), only if he shows up and takes that next step, more teams will be prepared to pay his value.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
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54,394
I really like what Button said in Leafs lunch today, the bit about The impact of how other players will view the Leafs if Babcock can get Kessel going, also the part about Leafs just missing the playoff but somehow gets a high lottery pick bc of the new format....what he didn't say and was in his mind was probably that guys like Stamkos would rather sign with this version of Leafs than the version where fans want Leafs to tank.

It makes sense bc if we questions the reason why The Leafs want to sign Franson bc by the time the rebuild is done, Franson will be in his 30s. Same thing can be said with Stamkos next year.

Is Stamkos really a viable plan at this point? Yes, go after him if he becomes available, but you can't build a team thinking about what Stamkos would want.

I'd say a lean and mean, young upcoming team would be a better landing spot than one with Kessel, Phaneuf etc still around.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
79,175
54,394
That's like using the lottery as your retirement plan. Yes, you could finish 10th last and win the lottery. But it's weighted. And if you are 30th and lose out on all 3 weighted lotteries, you draft 4th at worst. Finish 10th, at worst you draft 14th. See the difference?



Yes, it makes absolute sense if you fear that the team isn't going to really tear this down.

There are plenty of reasons to think you are right.

  • Shanahan's contract will expire before they can compete under a real rebuild.
  • So too will his GM Brigade
  • These content driven owners are losing money. Leafs in the Playoffs sooner helps that
  • Babcock has $50M
  • And lastly, history has shown they always take short cuts. The names on the office doors may have changed but the culture of MLSE hasn't.

So you might be right. Unfortunately. And we can look forward to more of the same futility.

How long is Shanahan signed for?
 

burpsalot

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
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I guess Kessels negatives out weighed the positives. Maybe Babcock figured Kessel couldn't be saved.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,140
7,058
Burlington
I guess Kessels negatives out weighed the positives. Maybe Babcock figured Kessel couldn't be saved.

He hasn't shown any interest in playing defence the first 28 years of his life...

What makes you think he'd start changing now...with an 8 year deal in his pocket?

Have fun Pittsburgh...but you're taking the bad with the good.
 

Brewsky

King Of The Ice Mugs
Jan 26, 2011
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So what is our core moving forward?

???-Marner-???
Kapanen-Nylander-???

Do we see both Marner and Nylander as C's?

I would love it next year if we get Matthews or Choo Choo.
 

burpsalot

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
5,633
0
He hasn't shown any interest in playing defence the first 28 years of his life...

What makes you think he'd start changing now...with an 8 year deal in his pocket?

Have fun Pittsburgh...but you're taking the bad with the good.

I never did & he is gone today.
 

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