What is the timeline to shed this current core?

[ACC1224]

Lets not confuse patience with frustration.
Kessel/Phaneuf and Bozak/Lupul should be shopped aggressively until they get the right deal. Does that mean 1 week, 1 month or 1 year? Doesn't matter. But they shouldn't stop until they get the deals they are looking for. That's patience.

Saying they will be traded one day and then not traded the next. Full rebuild, partial rebuild, hybrid rebuild are the things that frustrate me to no end.

The decision should have been made at the end of the year (and the 4-6 years before) to move on. Move on. So keep working everyday to do it. This team should know what it has to do now. Move them for the best deals possible. Do not deviate.

If you were patient you wouldn't be frustrated.

Who is saying that? How do you know they aren't working on this every day?

 

[-DeMo-]

The trade deadline and the entry draft are the 2 biggest and busiest times for make player moves.

Leafs removed only their rental players at the TD Franson, Santo and Winnik and struck out at the entry draft.

Now the UFA season is the next and last real pressure point otherwise get prepared for the Vets to return next season if they're not dealt in the next 2 weeks.

I think that there is also a small window in Late August early September for unsigned RFA's asking for to much.

 

[Suntouchable13]

There shouldn't be one.

Fact is, with this core, the team has been drafting consistently in the top 10 for the past few seasons.

That's pretty much where you want to pick if you are rebuilding, and it's been where we are picking WITH this core, so there's no urgency.

The objective here is not about finishing in the bottom of the league. The objective should be changing the culture. I hope the Leafs objective is the latter.

 

[Drew75]

Lets not confuse patience with frustration.
Kessel/Phaneuf and Bozak/Lupul should be shopped aggressively until they get the right deal. Does that mean 1 week, 1 month or 1 year? Doesn't matter. But they shouldn't stop until they get the deals they are looking for. That's patience.

Saying they will be traded one day and then not traded the next. Full rebuild, partial rebuild, hybrid rebuild are the things that frustrate me to no end.

The decision should have been made at the end of the year (and the 4-6 years before) to move on. Move on. So keep working everyday to do it. This team should know what it has to do now. Move them for the best deals possible. Do not deviate.

If you're frustrated listening to media guys with zero inside information speculate about things they don't know - I can't help you.


Of course Shanny is saying he's OK if some of these guys come back next year - if he said 'I really want to move them this summer' he should be fired for weakening his negotiations so stupidly.

Patience is understanding that a) the media doesn't know jack, b) the Leaf brass are not going to spell out their plans in the media just to make us feel better at the cost of negotiations, and c) we likely won't know the success of the off season until September.

If we start camp with at least one significant piece gone, I'm good.

 

[MapleLife*]

i think the luongo situation demonstrates that it's better to act early and decisively, than to be too passive and nitpick at what you get back. there's definitely a balance between expediency and value.

this

 

[MapleLife*]

The objective here is not about finishing in the bottom of the league. The objective should be changing the culture. I hope the Leafs objective is the latter.

I hope its both

 

[jmart21]

You don't need top 5 picks if the guys you draft at 29 and in the 5th and 6th round turn into top 5 picks in the NHL.
You can't compare Detroit to us or anyone. 3 obscure picks became superstar core players right after the previous superstar core retired.
If Verhaeghe,Rupert and Finn become Datsyuk/Zetterberg and Kronwall, yeah, we are golden.

I'm not saying we need to be able to expect to find Dats/Zet/Lidstrom, you can't plan for that. But you can plan to have guys you pick in late-1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th round to play for you in the NHL. People think the "Detroit" model means getting guys like Dats in the 6th round. It doesn't. There's so much more to the Wings development track record than just those 2-3 notable diamonds in the rough from the late 90's.

Jurco (35th)
Nyqvist (121st)
Tatar (60th)
Abdelkater (42nd)

Smith (27th)
Ericsson (291st)
Kindl (19th)
Kronwall (29th)


Not to mention the pipeline:
Larkin (15th)
Mantha (20th)
Pulkkinen (111th)
Sproul (55th)

 

[Trapper]

If you were patient you wouldn't be frustrated.

Who is saying that? How do you know they aren't working on this every day?

I don't know. I'm just saying this is a reason people would get frustrated.

 

[Bullseye]

Relax fans - Shanny wants to trade these guys but I think Babcock is gonna get a long crack at Phil and Dion and the rest of these inmates on the island of misfit toys to see if there's any Gold in that Dirt that he can pan for(talk about mixed metaphors).

A culture change and not a personnel change (as blasphemous as that sounds) may provide far more than another miserable season.

Hunter and Co. have just proven that good players are available after the first round. Have faith now and come on down and worship at the church of Babs, Hunter, Dubas, and Shanny...

This is where Faltorvo calls me a "jock-smelling sycophant" lol.

 

[IBeL34f]

Relax fans - Shanny wants to trade these guys but I think Babcock is gonna get a long crack at Phil and Dion and the rest of these inmates on the island of misfit toys to see if there's any Gold in that Dirt that he can pan for(talk about mixed metaphors).

A culture change and not a personnel change (as blasphemous as that sounds) may provide far more than another miserable season.

Hunter and Co. have just proven that good players are available after the first round. Have faith now and come on down and worship at the church of Babs, Hunter, Dubas, and Shanny...

This is where Faltorvo calls me a "jock-smelling sycophant" lol.

Not a completely mixed bag:

Moving these guys will take the same amount of time as the rebuild: As long as it takes. When the right deals for us come along, we'll move them out piece by piece. If some of these guys are here to start the season, people shouldn't freak out. Though if all of them are, I will be a tad disappointed.

 

[Durrr]

Not a completely mixed bag:

Moving these guys will take the same amount of time as the rebuild: As long as it takes. When the right deals for us come along, we'll move them out piece by piece. If some of these guys are here to start the season, people shouldn't freak out. Though if all of them are, I will be a tad disappointed.

And you rightfully should be disappointed. Shanny straight up said this current mix will not be the same.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Lets not confuse patience with frustration.
Kessel/Phaneuf and Bozak/Lupul should be shopped aggressively until they get the right deal. Does that mean 1 week, 1 month or 1 year? Doesn't matter. But they shouldn't stop until they get the deals they are looking for. That's patience.

Saying they will be traded one day and then not traded the next. Full rebuild, partial rebuild, hybrid rebuild are the things that frustrate me to no end.

The decision should have been made at the end of the year (and the 4-6 years before) to move on. Move on. So keep working everyday to do it. This team should know what it has to do now. Move them for the best deals possible. Do not deviate.

To be fair here. All of these actual verbage - is media driven.
Scorched earth (which I got wrapped in, I'll own my stuff)
Hybrid Retool
Rebuild

that's all being driven by the media, trying to figure out what the Leafs are doing.

Dubas, Shanahan, Babcock have all been saying the same things. We're building. we're creating. We want to establish.

I have been stating from last year Shanahan wants to address everything from tip to stern. And I know a lot of people will keep saying "I don't care about ____, I don't care about ______." but he wants the ECHL to be a huge resource. He wants the Marlies to be a huge resource, and then he wants the leafs to be a success, because of those two avenues." THAT takes time.

He also stated he's not going to sacrifice the development of the younger people on the team. (so I figure if people are expecting to be Buffalo-bad, or Edmonton-egregious better pump the breaks).

I feel anyone who thinks the organization is going to be satisfied for being happy with simply "making the playoffs" - has to stop and take a breath, because Horachek said that wasn't the case (and he got fired). Shanahan said that wasn't the case, and Babcock Mr "Professional Grinder, I love winning" said that's not the case.

I know a lot of people are "show, don't tell," but in my mind - Shanagement is
showing what they are doing. They are being consistent, by trying to get talent from all facets, they are trying to build a compound of state of the art everything, and trying to address the roster.

Until Shanagement makes moves that I truly can't defend. (and I don't even know what those moves would be, so don't ask me for examples), I am going to, as Shanahan stated - have the stomach to see this thing through, and not kick up a fuss every time the media says something that has been evident since January that they may not know anything in the front office. (or rather. everything). Maybe it will be trading 2 1sts and a 2nd. Maybe it's trading Nylander for a playoff push.

But not moving pieces off the roster, that they already identified that have to go (or get a better mix), when I demand they do it - is not going to be one of them. I want to get the "best" for the Leafs.

I can't speak for everyone . that's just how I see it. I know people have their breaking points, or what they want to have happen.

 

[brettzz]

we're a bubble team next year if nothing is done

 

[Masked Superstar]

as it stands right now I think the old boys are testing the new kid. Kessel needs to come back get off to a strong start and one of the teams that could really use him get off to a bad start. the Panthers for instance missed the playoffs by about 30 goals and have not got that so far this summer. but what do I know Sweeney could call tomorrow with an offer that could not be refused

 

[Durrr]

as it stands right now I think the old boys are testing the new kid. Kessel needs to come back get off to a strong start and one of the teams that could really use him get off to a bad start. the Panthers for instance missed the playoffs by about 30 goals and have not got that so far this summer. but what do I know Sweeney could call tomorrow with an offer that could not be refused

No one should have any problem with this team holding on to Kessel until a deal knocks our socks off.

What we should have a problem with, is them keeping players like Bozak and Lupul. These guys need to go, and before the season.

 

[Masked Superstar]

No one should have any problem with this team holding on to Kessel until a deal knocks our socks off.

What we should have a problem with, is them keeping players like Bozak and Lupul. These guys need to go, and before the season.

if someone called you with those 2 what would you offer

 

[Swervin81]

Lupul has no value right now. Can't do anything with him. Bozak must go before this season, no excuses. Kessel, he can stay if it means getting more value for him. Phaneuf must go IMO, trade the captain to send a huge message.

 

[Fogelhund]

Why is Lupul a must go NOW? I don't get that... we aren't going to get a return... if we want to get something for him, play him after trading away Kessel, Bozak etc... make him a focus of our offence and then hope to get something of value at the TDL. Right now he is basically a cap dump.

 

[Bullseye]

And you rightfully should be disappointed. Shanny straight up said this current mix will not be the same.

Do you believe he's not trying - what if it simply isn't possible without giving them away? Should we just give them away? Would that keep you happy?

 

[Bullseye]

Not a completely mixed bag:

Moving these guys will take the same amount of time as the rebuild: As long as it takes. When the right deals for us come along, we'll move them out piece by piece. If some of these guys are here to start the season, people shouldn't freak out. Though if all of them are, I will be a tad disappointed.

My compliments to you

 

[Menzinger]

Buffalo has just recently undertaken a rebuild - took hem a couple years to nice out their vets.

These things take time, especially guys on not so great contracts like Bozak and Lupul.

 

[Durrr]

if someone called you with those 2 what would you offer

Bozak is easily worth a 2nd, look at what Vermette got.

 

[glue]

Personally, I think this rebuild could take only 2 more decades. I think the current rebuild is coming along great, and yeah, a few obstacles in the 80's 90's and 00's, but finally signs are here that we may only have about 15 years left or so before being competitive.

 

[Mess]

Here is the problem.

Burke brought in a bunch of undesirables and unwantables from other teams. Then Nonis locked them all up to inflated bloated long-term deals. These players now under 3 different coaches have a reputation for lacking compete and produce epic 18-wheeler collapses annually.

So Shanny is trying to scorch the earth trying to get rid of all these players wanting to bring in quality character players as he wants to build a winning team and all these players are not a part of that vision.

However he is trying to sell these expendable players as great players and he wants a high return in exchange. Its almost an oxymoron situation where it is "Here take these great players that we want nothing to do with as were trying to win here ,but bring us top offers we can't refuse"

If these players are so great then why are you dumping them all?

So this is going to be a long drawn out process here, where you have to wait for opportunities like injuries for other teams to look for replacements or take back other teams bad contracts or be forced to retain salary to have any chance of moving some. If your waiting for top return this could take years to complete.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Do you believe he's not trying - what if it simply isn't possible without giving them away? Should we just give them away? Would that keep you happy?

I would give them away, easily. I don't want them on my team anymore. Those 2 are not the guys that you hold until you get a great offer. The fact that they would be gone is already a plus.