What is the timeline to shed this current core?

[egd27]

I think the Luongo situation demonstrates that it's better to act early and decisively, than to be too passive and nitpick at what you get back. There's definitely a balance between expediency and value.

I think your comparing apples to oranges using the example of trading a goalie.

Relax fans - Shanny wants to trade these guys but I think Babcock is gonna get a long crack at Phil and Dion and the rest of these inmates on the island of misfit toys to see if there's any Gold in that Dirt that he can pan for(talk about mixed metaphors).

A culture change and not a personnel change (as blasphemous as that sounds) may provide far more than another miserable season.

Hunter and Co. have just proven that good players are available after the first round. Have faith now and come on down and worship at the church of Babs, Hunter, Dubas, and Shanny...

This is where Faltorvo calls me a "jock-smelling sycophant" lol.

How did Hunter and Co. prove that?

 

[Pookie]

Timeline?

Best: Yesterday
Next Best: Today
Next Best Best: Before the season starts

Inexcusable: Any time after that

 

[BertCorbeau]

Timeline?

Best: Yesterday
Next Best: Today
Next Best Best: Before the season starts

Inexcusable: Any time after that

Wait... You're timeline is to trade all of Bozak, Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, and maybe even JVR before the season starts .. And if any of them aren't, it's inexcusable?

 

[Babcocks Marner]

2 years, 3 months, 13 days, 47 seconds.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Wait... You're timeline is to trade all of Bozak, Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, and maybe even JVR before the season starts .. And if any of them aren't, it's inexcusable?

Well, if all of them are back intact then I am not watching a single game next season. It's not a threat, I am just saying I am losing interest. It's not enjoyable watching them play. I am sure there are many other peeps who feel the same way. I have had just about enough of these guys. Sorry.

 

[Bomber0104]

Well, if all of them are back intact then I am not watching a single game next season. It's not a threat, I am just saying. I am sure there are many other peeps who feel the same way. I have had just about enough of these guys. Sorry.

A perfectly rational way to think.

How any fan can not get an uneasy, sickly feeling about bringing back the same cast of losers for yet another season is astonishing.

It's pretty clear to me that there are a number of Leafs fans who aren't interested in seeming the team win.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I would throw everything for a loop right about now and put it out there that Jvr is available. It would be the availability of him that could open the door to a multi player deal that retrieves us plenty of bang back.

Maybe the team likes him but we are at least 4 years to contendership cusp at present. Why not get this group young and hardworking in the meantime as a identity.

I would rather make these changes now. That said, i want hockey trades that will benefit both teams circumstances. I want picks,prospects and young roster players as the base of any deals but most of all i want full value for our assets.

Making a multiplayer deal might clear a proper path for two teams simultaneously being the goal. I don't have any priority including timeline that supersedes fair value.

Trade the whole core and i am fine with that but get full value. I would guess it could be all done in the next year from around mid july.

So 1 year should be a obtainable goal for the team considering their explained plan of building.

Extra picks in the first rounds over the next three years is fine with me also. I don't need it to all be in next years draft. Teams rarely trade first three years out but it could turn out favourably with unforeseens turning into a strong pick.

I'm in no hurry at all really.

 

[Falon]

I would focus very hard on trades with Calgary, that should make for a faster rebuild. I know there is a good deal there for Kessel AND Bozak.

 

[nsleaf]

Exactly. It's clear that some people don't really get what patience means.



I pretty much agree with you, i think over the next 12 months we'll see a lot of work done to this core...it's not something they were going to accomplish in the 2-3 weeks between the Cup Finals and the draft. As someone that would like to see management get it right, I rest easier knowing they are being methodical and thorough with their approach.


One thing I think we should all keep in mind is that we don't actually know what the plan is. Shanny has never come out and said "we're tanking, we're going to be bad for a few years so get prepared for it".
I've been a believer that they are more or less looking to change the culture from top to bottom in the organization and build a Detroit style organization, because with that in place, success will follow. I don't think they intend to draft top 5 for 3-5 consecutive years. Detroit didn't need to draft top 5 to get their current core, and they've got a new wave of young stars that also didn't require top 5 picks.

It's about the culture; you need to find player players that have good personalities/attitudes (scouting), you also need to surround them with the right peers/leaders (player development), and you need to implement everything correctly (coaching, management). They are trying to create an organization with the proper pillars to success. These aspects are sustainable, you can continue to be competitive without the need of a burn it to the ground rebuild. Edmonton has neglected these for years and had zero improvement. You can't just count on high draft picks coming into the NHL and magically putting it all together.

The only really clear thing is that posters have different opinions.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

2015 trade deadline: Franson
2015 offseason: player x
2016 trade deadline: player y
2016 offseason: player z
2017 trade deadline: last player (going into the 2017-18 season, Kessel has 5 years left and Phaneuf has 4 years left on their deals)

While i don't want it to happen just because I don't think he's a great fit unless were looking at little to no term so we can flip, how does this timeline look if we resign Franson..

 

[Kamiccolo]

You don't need top 5 picks if the guys you draft at 29 and in the 5th and 6th round turn into top 5 picks in the NHL.
You can't compare Detroit to us or anyone. 3 obscure picks became superstar core players right after the previous superstar core retired.
If Verhaeghe,Rupert and Finn become Datsyuk/Zetterberg and Kronwall, yeah, we are golden.

Well under the new staffs first draft we got a guy who is being called the next Karlsson, A russian winger projected to go in the 2nd round in the 7th, and a Bracco. What he means is we can get 60 point players anywhere in the draft.

We already have Rielly, Nylander, and Marner as our future elite talent.

 

[Crysis]

A perfectly rational way to think.

How any fan can not get an uneasy, sickly feeling about bringing back the same cast of losers for yet another season is astonishing.

It's pretty clear to me that there are a number of Leafs fans who aren't interested in seeming the team win.

I'm one of them, this past year was year 2 of tank nation, it's a 4 year mission. After that we can start to win.

 

[kihei]

Somewhere between the sooner the better and as long as it takes.

 

[Ovate]

All these "Leafs fans aren't patient" posts.

I'm very patient about waiting through a rebuild. I like the idea of watching our prospects grow and improve, and I we've sucked anyway for years so it's not like it's much worse.

I'm less patient about actually beginning the rebuild. We haven't traded a single core piece yet. Impending UFAs at the deadline when we weren't in a playoff spots doesn't count, since that was a no brainer.

I'm more worried than impatient. Rumours are flying that we're looking at Beleskey or Franson on a long term contract. We may be "Rebuilding on the fly", which to me says not committing at all. There's no evidence that we're even rebuilding at all. I'm not impatient to move a big name player so that we're competitive again sooner. I'm impatient to move a big name player so that I can get some confirmation of the direction of this team.

 

[Stephen]

Just for reference, how many 1st round picks did the Boston Bruins accumulate in the last week, while not being in a rebuild, for Lucic and Hamilton alone? How many prospects did the Hawks acquire for Brandon Saad today?

The rebuild itself is happening full speed ahead at the draft. There's a lot of promise there and by all measures where all the major building blocks will come. It's just unfortunate that the ghost of the old team is still alive and well and intact.

 

[nuck]

Wait... You're timeline is to trade all of Bozak, Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, and maybe even JVR before the season starts .. And if any of them aren't, it's inexcusable?

Kessel and maybe Boz by seasons start but the rest are pretty iffy. Dion and Lupul might be here for the year(or more). JVR can probably be dealt at any time but I think with his contract they could have moved him at the draft if they didn't want to keep him.

 

[Judas Tavares]

I think there is a timeline, and I'm sure its somewhere within a year and a half for all of them combined. I just know its not five seconds after Dubas etc pick up the PS4 controller while playing NHL15.

 

[Stephen]

I think your comparing apples to oranges using the example of trading a goalie.

No, it's about a relationship between a team and player(s) that is over, and they're stuck waiting for the divorce papers to come in. Just move on.

 

[Pookie]

Wait... You're timeline is to trade all of Bozak, Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, and maybe even JVR before the season starts .. And if any of them aren't, it's inexcusable?

Yep.

Bringing them back suggests that they think Babcock can get more out of them. It would signal that the rebuild is taking a short cut.

There is absolutely no logical reason... if you are building a team that will be good in 5 years... to keep these guys. As good a season as they may have, the next 5 are useless.

To those that say you need to hold on to get value. 2 things can happen. They put up good numbers. Or they don't.

Let's say they put up great numbers. More goals for and less goals against equals better odds for a higher guaranteed draft pick. But forget the draft, the main flaw in that argument is that if the Leafs are playing better under Babcock and these guys are performing and the Leafs are contending ... for a playoff spot... you really think that the Board... content hungry and losing money on the NHL TV deal... will be comfortable in selling them off? Not a chance.

And if they put up bad numbers? How exactly does that raise their trade value?

Their value to this club... IF they are truly rebuilding... is at its peak. Trading this offseason is the only option IF they are truly rebuilding.

If they don't move, it's a shortcut Hail Mary and I find that inexcusable.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Going to be a lot of disappointed people come preseason by the look of it.

 

[Bomber0104]

Going to be a lot of disappointed people come preseason by the look of it.

Not as disappointed as fans will be with a team riddled with immovable contracts....

All because a very ignorant segment of the fanbase wanted to wait for a "fair deal" for most understand to be toxic assets (Kessel, Phaneuf, Bozak, Lupul, Gardiner)

 

[Daisy Jane]

Just for reference, how many 1st round picks did the Boston Bruins accumulate in the last week, while not being in a rebuild, for Lucic and Hamilton alone? How many prospects did the Hawks acquire for Brandon Saad today?

The rebuild itself is happening full speed ahead at the draft. There's a lot of promise there and by all measures where all the major building blocks will come. It's just unfortunate that the ghost of the old team is still alive and well and intact.

how many of those contracts had anything longer than 1 year on it?

we don't have good enough prospects
nonis and losielle trapped us under a lot of bloated contracts.

those teams can make the moves because it's easier to move a 1 year deal than it is 7. Columbus could give up a glut of players because they have the depth. we do not.

almost every single ugly contract out there that had 3+ years of term on it that didn't get moved - got bought out. so unless people are suggesting that we should have just stuck everyone on waivers....

 

[Gabriel426]

I really like what Button said in Leafs lunch today, the bit about The impact of how other players will view the Leafs if Babcock can get Kessel going, also the part about Leafs just missing the playoff but somehow gets a high lottery pick bc of the new format....what he didn't say and was in his mind was probably that guys like Stamkos would rather sign with this version of Leafs than the version where fans want Leafs to tank.

It makes sense bc if we questions the reason why The Leafs want to sign Franson bc by the time the rebuild is done, Franson will be in his 30s. Same thing can be said with Stamkos next year.

 

[Gabriel426]

how many of those contracts had anything longer than 1 year on it?

we don't have good enough prospects
nonis and losielle trapped us under a lot of bloated contracts.

those teams can make the moves because it's easier to move a 1 year deal than it is 7. Columbus could give up a glut of players because they have the depth. we do not.

almost every single ugly contract out there that had 3+ years of term on it that didn't get moved - got bought out. so unless people are suggesting that we should have just stuck everyone on waivers....

Great post and on top of that, beside Lupul, Leafs will be stupid to buy out any of their contracts bc those players can still play.

 

[PhillyFrisco]

This upcoming season's trade deadline IMO.

Particularly Phaneuf and Lupul.

Kessel and Bozak can stay.