What is the timeline to shed this current core?

[A1LeafNation]

We know Leafs have to shed their core. We don't know how long its going to take.

Of Franson(first was Mar 2015) Lupul Bozak Kessel Phaneuf, 2 or 3 should be gone by the opener(1 is gone already). This is going to take years imo.

Look how long it took to get rid of the Muskoka 5: Tucker(first was June 2008) Sundin Kubina McCabe Kaberle(last was Feb 2011).

Click to read more...

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

There isn't one.

 

[cheeeko]

It'll take however long it takes. As badly as I want the Leafs to go full NHL 15 and dump all the players and go full prospects and picks, it can't be like that.

If we trade SOMEONE from the core this summer, I'll be fine.

 

[A1LeafNation]

2015 trade deadline: Franson
2015 offseason: player x
2016 trade deadline: player y
2016 offseason: player z
2017 trade deadline: last player (going into the 2017-18 season, Kessel has 5 years left and Phaneuf has 4 years left on their deals)

 

[ACC1224]

This rebuild is taking far too long.

 

[glue]

I think the order in which these guys will be gone will likely be Kessel, Phaneuf, Bozak and then Lupul. Timeline I think could be anywhere from now to about 2-2.5 years from now. For example I think Lupul literally has negative value right now. So if the Leafs truly stick to their guns that they want to maximize returns on any player, I think a guy like Lupul would fetch the most in his last year at the trade deadline. Thats when I can see a playoff team take a run at him as he'll be a UFA at the end of the year.

 

[Corleone]

Before Brown/Nylander make the big club. So 1 year 2 months.

 

[Northern Dancer]

This rebuild is taking far too long.

Don't worry, UFA season starts tomorrow, MLSE can accelerate the re-build in a nano-second.

 

[glue]

This rebuild is taking far too long.

I assume you are being sarcastic?

 

[Brown Dog]

Let's take a page out of LA Kings' book. Why shed a contract when you can just shred a contact!

 

[Swervin81]

Let's take a page out of LA Kings' book. Why shed a contract when you can just shred a contact!

Quick, hire a PI to follow Lupul around. Maybe there's a clause somewhere about having less than X number of suits/dress shirts/ties in possession somewhere in the contract

 

[burpsalot]

Don't worry, UFA season starts tomorrow, MLSE can accelerate the re-build in a nano-second.

I can hear the crickets already.
​

 

[Trapper]

Let's take a page out of LA Kings' book. Why shed a contract when you can just shred a contact!

I don't know how long it will take but we should be looking at moving Kessel/Phaneuf now.
Where do you see the Leafs next season? Bottom 5? Middle of the non-playoff teams? Wild card?
Who do you project the bottom 5 teams to be? This year it was Buffalo,Arizona,Edmonton,Toronto,Carolina.
Did Buffalo improve? Edmonton?
Are the teams just above us, NJ,Philly,Columbus,SJ,Colorado better or worse than the Leafs?
We have a real opportunity to be in the bottom 3 next year before 2017 expansion (maybe) gives the top picks to the new teams.
Arizona and Carolina already have 2 1st round picks in 2016 and at least one looks poised to finish at the bottom.

Would people consider the Boston Bruin moves of Lucic/Hamilton for Kessel/Phaneuf.

Can we get a 1st in 2016, plus a prospect Pouliot and maybe a Murray from Pittsburgh for Kessel?
Can we get a 1st in 2016, plus a prospect ? for Phaneuf.
Are we holding on to Kessel/Phaneuf for a specific reason? Better return? No guarantee. To win the Cup?

If we can, that's the way to go.
3 1sts in 2016 and a couple of prospects to add to what we've been building.
We should be able to form the basis of our team from all of this.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Quick, hire a PI to follow Lupul around. Maybe there's a clause somewhere about having less than X number of suits/dress shirts/ties in possession somewhere in the contract

well that would def. be a material breach

.... bahbumbish.

 

[Mess]

The trade deadline and the entry draft are the 2 biggest and busiest times for make player moves.

Leafs removed only their rental players at the TD Franson, Santo and Winnik and struck out at the entry draft.

Now the UFA season is the next and last real pressure point otherwise get prepared for the Vets to return next season if they're not dealt in the next 2 weeks.

 

[Falon]

I do not see this core being moved out anytime soon. I don't think Lupul will be moved unless he has a strong season, so the trade deadline at the very earliest. The same can be said for Bozak. If Phaneuf is traded, it will not be until later in the summer, after all the UFA's are gone. Kessel is the real mystery as he is an elite player, and is getting paid like one. Teams typically have room for 2 elite players or at least, two elite salaries among the forwards. Given Kessel's list of teams where he agree to go, the only team that has room for him is Montreal. The teams who have room, and have been discussed, (Nashville, Columbus, Florida, Arizona) are all internal cap teams and can't afford to take him on. Of all the teams that I could see a deal for Phil, Calgary is by far the best one, but they don't seem interested. There just may be no decent market for Kessel now, or in the near future.

 

[jmart21]

This rebuild is taking far too long.

This is pretty much how the fanbase is getting.

We're what, 3 weeks into the off-season on our new plan and people are complaining about it taking too long.

Newsflash: being patient means being patient in more areas than just "yeah i'm down for a tank".

"Yeah we're patient"
"Get rid of this core now. NOW. NOWWW. NOWW"
"Yeah we're patient"

 

[Drew75]

This rebuild is taking far too long.

A lot of people here have made it abundantly clear - these boards have the patience to do a full rebuild ... as long as it happens really quickly!

I for one expect a major purge of the core over the next 12 months (leading up to 2016 Free Agency). By that time we should also have a fairly decent prospect pool, and can begin the 'build' portion of the rebuild.

 

[Stephen]

I think the Luongo situation demonstrates that it's better to act early and decisively, than to be too passive and nitpick at what you get back. There's definitely a balance between expediency and value.

 

[jmart21]

A lot of people here have made it abundantly clear - these boards have the patience to do a full rebuild ... as long as it happens really quickly!

Exactly. It's clear that some people don't really get what patience means.

I for one expect a major purge of the core over the next 12 months (leading up to 2016 Free Agency). By that time we should also have a fairly decent prospect pool, and can begin the 'build' portion of the rebuild.

I pretty much agree with you, i think over the next 12 months we'll see a lot of work done to this core...it's not something they were going to accomplish in the 2-3 weeks between the Cup Finals and the draft. As someone that would like to see management get it right, I rest easier knowing they are being methodical and thorough with their approach.


One thing I think we should all keep in mind is that we don't actually know what the plan is. Shanny has never come out and said "we're tanking, we're going to be bad for a few years so get prepared for it".
I've been a believer that they are more or less looking to change the culture from top to bottom in the organization and build a Detroit style organization, because with that in place, success will follow. I don't think they intend to draft top 5 for 3-5 consecutive years. Detroit didn't need to draft top 5 to get their current core, and they've got a new wave of young stars that also didn't require top 5 picks.

It's about the culture; you need to find player players that have good personalities/attitudes (scouting), you also need to surround them with the right peers/leaders (player development), and you need to implement everything correctly (coaching, management). They are trying to create an organization with the proper pillars to success. These aspects are sustainable, you can continue to be competitive without the need of a burn it to the ground rebuild. Edmonton has neglected these for years and had zero improvement. You can't just count on high draft picks coming into the NHL and magically putting it all together.

 

[TankNationTillDeath]

Personally, I think this rebuild could take only 2 more decades. I think the current rebuild is coming along great, and yeah, a few obstacles in the 80's 90's and 00's, but finally signs are here that we may only have about 15 years left or so before being competitive.

 

[MR4]

Ideally we move out Lupul, Bozak, Kessel, and Phaneuf before next years Free Agency.

 

[Tak7]

There shouldn't be one.

Fact is, with this core, the team has been drafting consistently in the top 10 for the past few seasons.

That's pretty much where you want to pick if you are rebuilding, and it's been where we are picking WITH this core, so there's no urgency.

 

[Trapper]

A lot of people here have made it abundantly clear - these boards have the patience to do a full rebuild ... as long as it happens really quickly!

I for one expect a major purge of the core over the next 12 months (leading up to 2016 Free Agency). By that time we should also have a fairly decent prospect pool, and can begin the 'build' portion of the rebuild.

Lets not confuse patience with frustration.
Kessel/Phaneuf and Bozak/Lupul should be shopped aggressively until they get the right deal. Does that mean 1 week, 1 month or 1 year? Doesn't matter. But they shouldn't stop until they get the deals they are looking for. That's patience.

Saying they will be traded one day and then not traded the next. Full rebuild, partial rebuild, hybrid rebuild are the things that frustrate me to no end.

The decision should have been made at the end of the year (and the 4-6 years before) to move on. Move on. So keep working everyday to do it. This team should know what it has to do now. Move them for the best deals possible. Do not deviate.

 

[Trapper]

Exactly. It's clear that some people don't really get what patience means.



I pretty much agree with you, i think over the next 12 months we'll see a lot of work done to this core...it's not something they were going to accomplish in the 2-3 weeks between the Cup Finals and the draft. As someone that would like to see management get it right, I rest easier knowing they are being methodical and thorough with their approach.


One thing I think we should all keep in mind is that we don't actually know what the plan is. Shanny has never come out and said "we're tanking, we're going to be bad for a few years so get prepared for it".
I've been a believer that they are more or less looking to change the culture from top to bottom in the organization and build a Detroit style organization, because with that in place, success will follow. I don't think they intend to draft top 5 for 3-5 consecutive years. Detroit didn't need to draft top 5 to get their current core, and they've got a new wave of young stars that also didn't require top 5 picks.

It's about the culture; you need to find player players that have good personalities/attitudes (scouting), you also need to surround them with the right peers/leaders (player development), and you need to implement everything correctly (coaching, management). They are trying to create an organization with the proper pillars to success. These aspects are sustainable, you can continue to be competitive without the need of a burn it to the ground rebuild. Edmonton has neglected these for years and had zero improvement. You can't just count on high draft picks coming into the NHL and magically putting it all together.

You don't need top 5 picks if the guys you draft at 29 and in the 5th and 6th round turn into top 5 picks in the NHL.
You can't compare Detroit to us or anyone. 3 obscure picks became superstar core players right after the previous superstar core retired.
If Verhaeghe,Rupert and Finn become Datsyuk/Zetterberg and Kronwall, yeah, we are golden.