What is going on with Rasmus Dahlin?

[Buck Naked]

You can't really blame Dahlin here, this is the worst run franchise in the NHL and it isn't close. The Sabers beat the love of the game out of O'Rielly, imagine what it's doing to a 20 year old defenseman

Yeah, a single player's poor defense is usually the fault of the owner and GM. I wonder how the young players on Ottawa's roster can perform..? That franchise must be super well run.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He should have had some veteran, preferably a swede, to mentor him for a few years. I think it's not a question about talent but a question of not having the right support structure around him.

 

[leafsfan5]

Yeah, a single player's poor defense is usually the fault of the owner and GM. I wonder how the young players on Ottawa's roster can perform..? That franchise must be super well run.

I mean for all the jokes we make about the Sens their rebuild has been going well. They’re a team that works very hard and is a pain to play against. That’s a solid environment for a young player to step into and we’re seeing it with guys like Stutzle excelling. The leafs had something similar the year before Matthews was drafted and reaped benefits for it. A good environment and structure around any player is important (e.g O’Rielly), but for a young defenseman that importance only amplifies. It’s no surprise Dahlin is struggling, he’s in the most toxic environment in the NHL

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Gotta feel bad for him. Playing for this Sabres team during his developing years will severely impact the rest of his career.

 

[Atas2000]

He should have had some veteran, preferably a swede, to mentor him for a few years. I think it's not a question about talent but a question of not having the right support structure around him.

I mean Provorov never had a mentor in the NHL and started playing like a NHL pro right away. On a team where he had to be the best D-man and play what feels like 25 minutes per game(sometimes it is 25+ minutes for him IRL) in all situations. And he wasn't a 1OA. I am not completely dismissing your point, but I think Dahlin might have been just a bit overrated at draft day and it resulted in too high expectations to perform as a 1D right away.

 

[HaNotsri]

Yeah, a single player's poor defense is usually the fault of the owner and GM. I wonder how the young players on Ottawa's roster can perform..? That franchise must be super well run.

You know that every single player on the Sabres except for Reinhart and Lazar are total disasters 5 vs 5 right? Hall had his first decent game of the year against Philly this week.
It's not just Dahlin struggling.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I mean Provorov never had a mentor in the NHL and started playing like a NHL pro right away. On a team where he had to be the best D-man and play what feels like 25 minutes per game(sometimes it is 25+ minutes for him IRL) in all situations. And he wasn't a 1OA. I am not completely dismissing your point, but I think Dahlin might have been just a bit overrated at draft day and it resulted in too high expectations to perform as a 1D right away.

Very different scenarios imo. Provorov had more of a support structure (Giroux, Voracek etc.) and far from the same expectations. He had also played in North America a few years compared to Dahlin moving to a new country with a different language (something he himself mentioned as being hard).
I don't think Dahlin was overrated but it goes to show that not even a #1OA with generational type skillsets can just be thrown into a bad situation with little-to-no help and be expected to handle it. It's hard to single out one thing, but we've seen so many situations where it helps especially for kids coming over from europe to have that same-language mentor around.
Tampa signed Öhlund when they drafted Hedman, not because Öhlund was a fantastic player at that point but to mentor Hedman. Washington had Nylander around for Nicklas Bäckström, I think Bäckström even lived with Nylander a while. Datsyuk was helped tremendously by the russians in Detroit, Larionov especially.

 

[Dubi Doo]

There's no doubt the environment he's in makes it incredibly difficult for him to hit his stride and maximize his potential. We'll never really know how good he would be playing right now had he gone to a well run franchise. The potential is still there, though.

 

[Atas2000]

Very different scenarios imo. Provorov had more of a support structure (Giroux, Voracek etc.) and far from the same expectations. He had also played in North America a few years compared to Dahlin moving to a new country with a different language (something he himself mentioned as being hard).
I don't think Dahlin was overrated but it goes to show that not even a #1OA with generational type skillsets can just be thrown into a bad situation with little-to-no help and be expected to handle it. It's hard to single out one thing, but we've seen so many situations where it helps especially for kids coming over from europe to have that same-language mentor around.
Tampa signed Öhlund when they drafted Hedman, not because Öhlund was a fantastic player at that point but to mentor Hedman. Washington had Nylander around for Nicklas Bäckström, I think Bäckström even lived with Nylander a while. Datsyuk was helped tremendously by the russians in Detroit, Larionov especially.

Except for the language/culture I don't see any difference between Buffalo for Dahlin and Prorovov coming to Philly at that time. Philadelphia is not a perennial contender either to put it mildly. A lot of people on here will tell you how garbage Giroux is. On the other hand it's not like Buffalo does not have skilled players. The same people will praise Eichel a lot. Anyway, I don't see much supporting cast in Philadelphia too. On paper they might only have an edge in goal, but Provorov also started out before Hart was there. It's just how abysmal everything is working out in Buffalo. With proper coaching and leadership they should be much higher in the standings.

And the main point remains. Dahlin was 1OA, i.e. considered to be not only best in the draft, but also a NHL ready prospect as by far most 1OAs are. That also includes his ability to adapt. If people thought he might have trouble adapting and need time until he can be a not sheltered NHL D-man, they'd probably not draft him 1OA. Also Kotkaniemi and Hughes are doing just fine in the league. The latter on a pretty bad team with no real metors as for now where he basically was given the same role as Dahlin in Buffalo. I'd say Dahlin was overrated. The talent is there, probably a top 10 pick would have been alright.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Except for the language/culture I don't see any difference between Buffalo for Dahlin and Prorovov coming to Philly at that time. Philadelphia is not a perennial contender either to put it mildly. A lot of people on here will tell you how garbage Giroux is. On the other hand it's not like Buffalo does not have skilled players. The same people will praise Eichel a lot. Anyway, I don't see much supporting cast in Philadelphia too. On paper they might only have an edge in goal, but Provorov also started out before Hart was there. It's just how abysmal everything is working out in Buffalo. With proper coaching and leadership they should be much higher in the standings.

And the main point remains. Dahlin was 1OA, i.e. considered to be not only best in the draft, but also a NHL ready prospect as by far most 1OAs are. That also includes his ability to adapt. If people thought he might have trouble adapting and need time until he can be a not sheltered NHL D-man, they'd probably not draft him 1OA. Also Kotkaniemi and Hughes are doing just fine in the league. The latter on a pretty bad team with no real metors as for now where he basically was given the same role as Dahlin in Buffalo. I'd say Dahlin was overrated. The talent is there, probably a top 10 pick would have been alright.

I think you are only looking at on-ice factors, what I'm talking about is much more the off-ice factors, having veteran leadership and mentors, having someone that speaks the same language etc.

Kotkaniemi is not a great example, if he was #1OA he would have been heavily, heavily questioned.

Hughes and Pettersson have had some struggles this season and a lot of people have speculated it's linked to losing Markström/Tanev in the offseason.

You're comparing to names without the same expectations on them, that didn't enter the NHL at 18 in many cases, that have had good/great veteran mentors around etc.

 

[Buck Naked]

You know that every single player on the Sabres except for Reinhart and Lazar are total disasters 5 vs 5 right? Hall had his first decent game of the year against Philly this week.
It's not just Dahlin struggling.

There's one thing to struggle and still show heart and effort. Dahlin just looks slow and lazy. He makes bad plays a lot more than he makes good ones, especially in his own end.

 

[Atas2000]

I think you are only looking at on-ice factors, what I'm talking about is much more the off-ice factors, having veteran leadership and mentors, having someone that speaks the same language etc.

Most 1OA are good enough to be successful regardless. That's the whole point. Ovechkin's English was a wild mix of swear words and thick accent at first. He did score over 100pts in a season though. I know it's not fair to compare generational freaks of nature to an "average" 1OA, but just to put it in perspective. Of course there are numerous factors affecting development, but mostly for a 1OA they are not that important because of the talent level.

Kotkaniemi is not a great example, if he was #1OA he would have been heavily, heavily questioned.

Oh he is a good example. Exhibit A how if Dahlin was not a 1OA he would be questioned less. I.e. 1OA was not the right pick for Dahlin. That's exactly what I was saying.

Hughes and Pettersson have had some struggles this season and a lot of people have speculated it's linked to losing Markström/Tanev in the offseason.

I wouldn't say 24 points, tied for 2nd in the league among defencemen is exactly struggling. Yes, Hughes is not far ahead of Dahlin in +/-, but that again just depicts what I said before. Similar situations, bad team. But Hughes mostly fits the bill of a offensively gifted defeneceman who is yet to learn the other aspects of the game, which is not at all unusual. Dahlin is not only atrocious defensively, he is not scoring much. Three even strength points IIRC too. HE definitely looks more like a guy in trouble.

You're comparing to names without the same expectations on them, that didn't enter the NHL at 18 in many cases, that have had good/great veteran mentors around etc.

And again, that was my point and my logic. Dahlin taken not as a 1OA, but as a say top 10 pick would be beneficial for his development and the proper assertion of his talent. Less expectations, more patience, maybe a stint in the minors before the NHL pressure cooker. Right now it looks like he is not head and shoulders above those other prospects, but that was how he was presented to us at draft day.

 

[Pavels Dog]

And again, that was my point and my logic. Dahlin taken not as a 1OA, but as a say top 10 pick would be beneficial for his development and the proper assertion of his talent. Less expectations, more patience, maybe a stint in the minors before the NHL pressure cooker. Right now it looks like he is not head and shoulders above those other prospects, but that was how he was presented to us at draft day.

At the draft it was 100% the right choice, one which 31 out of 31 teams would have made, and Dahlin would likely look better if he was drafted by nearly all other teams except Buffalo.

Right now it looks like that is a badly run organization that have not put the right environment in place for their young players to succeed and the team to improve. Would 18-20 year old Nicklas Lidström look good under same circumstances as Dahlin? Probably not. Does that mean you wouldn't draft Lidström #1OA in that draft? No, it means you need to change the circumstances. Not every #1OA is a Crosby, Ovechkin or McDavid that will score 100 points and be a superstar regardless. A lot of the best players in the world have been helped by teammates/mentors to achieve their status. And even Crosby and Ovie had guys like Lemieux, Fedorov, Kozlov etc. around the early years to help them.

 

[Atas2000]

At the draft it was 100% the right choice, one which 31 out of 31 teams would have made, and Dahlin would likely look better if he was drafted by nearly all other teams except Buffalo.

Right now it looks like that is a badly run organization that have not put the right environment in place for their young players to succeed and the team to improve. Would 18-20 year old Nicklas Lidström look good under same circumstances as Dahlin? Probably not. Does that mean you wouldn't draft Lidström #1OA in that draft? No, it means you need to change the circumstances. Not every #1OA is a Crosby, Ovechkin or McDavid that will score 100 points and be a superstar regardless. A lot of the best players in the world have been helped by teammates/mentors to achieve their status. And even Crosby and Ovie had guys like Lemieux, Fedorov, Kozlov etc. around the early years to help them.

Don't ask me. I am happy Svechnikov did not end up in Buffalo. Still, Svechnikov was probably the better choice.

Every young player need mentors, yes. I am just comparing the situations. The Caps were a mess too when Ovechkin arrived. The next best guy was Danius freaking Zubrus with 57 points on the season. And oh, yeah, there was not a single Russian on the team too. First overalls often come to bad teams, right?

I think Dahlin sdoes not need excuses. What he needs is finding out what's wrong with his game. There is a lot it seems.

 

[HaNotsri]

There's one thing to struggle and still show heart and effort. Dahlin just looks slow and lazy. He makes bad plays a lot more than he makes good ones, especially in his own end.

He's probably just following Kruegers orders.

Sabres defensemen aren't allowed to go forward even when given space to do so. You can look at the shot charts, it's absurd. Our coach is so afraid of turnovers in the offensive zone that our defensemen are supposed to lick the blueline and just dump the puck down towards net.

Krueger is efficiently neutering the only strength of our defensemen - pinching and moving the puck while on the attack.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think Dahlin sdoes not need excuses. What he needs is finding out what's wrong with his game. There is a lot it seems.

You don't need to spend more than 5 seconds looking at how they are off the ice to see that Dahlin and Ovechkin are not the same type of personalities, I'm just saying that good management try to do everything they can to make "the talent" feel comfortable and make sure they're in a happy place mentally. Ovechkin maybe didn't need it to score, but no doubt having other Russians on the team in his early years helped keep him happy.
If I was GM and my extremely talented #1OA d-man was looking miserable and talking about how difficult the language barrier and social stuff was, I would be looking at available swedes to acquire. Is that the key to turning his game around? Maybe, maybe not. But most players perform better if they are happy and have it good off the ice.

 

[Buck Naked]

He's probably just following Kruegers orders.

Sabres defensemen aren't allowed to go forward even when given space to do so. You can look at the shot charts, it's absurd. Our coach is so afraid of turnovers in the offensive zone that our defensemen are supposed to lick the blueline and just dump the puck down towards net.

Krueger is efficiently neutering the only strength of our defensemen - pinching and moving the puck while on the attack.

Or, he just sucks defensively. Because I bet Kreuger doesn't order him to be on the wrong side of attackers, not using his stick or body while defending, or to play sloppy in his own end.

 

[Lacaar]

This league gobbles up young d-men and shits them out.
The position is the hardest one to play now imo. The new rules have made it harder for them. And quite frankly rightfully so. It was way too f***ing easy to hook and hold and impede to play solid defense.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Hes officially been Sabred

Unfortunately its been happening to almost everyone that puts the sweater on

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Yea Rasmus. f*** off with your offensive creativity and rushing ability. Be more like Radko Gudas!!

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Tbh I'm not worried about him at all.

Krueger is temporary. Dahlin is 20.

 

[Future]

He's probably just following Kruegers orders.

Sabres defensemen aren't allowed to go forward even when given space to do so. You can look at the shot charts, it's absurd. Our coach is so afraid of turnovers in the offensive zone that our defensemen are supposed to lick the blueline and just dump the puck down towards net.

Krueger is efficiently neutering the only strength of our defensemen - pinching and moving the puck while on the attack.

The Krueger hire has objectively been a disaster. This is the most talented Sabres team in a very long time. Really makes zero sense that they are THIS bad...

Rather than playing to their strengths, they are trying to force a square block into a round hole. Difficult to watch. Before blowing up the team they should bring someone in to install a system that works for the players playing in it. Common sense, no?

Could see Dahlin excelling in a Morgan Rielly type role. Allow him to free roam, create, jump into the attack, and live with the mistakes. But he needs to play with someone really smart and sound defensively.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

The Krueger hire has objectively been a disaster. This is the most talented Sabres team in a very long time. Really makes zero sense that they are THIS bad...

Rather than playing to their strengths, they are trying to force a square block into a round hole. Difficult to watch. Before blowing up the team they should bring someone in to install a system that works for the players playing in it. Common sense, no?

Could see Dahlin excelling in a Morgan Rielly type role. Allow him to free roam, create, jump into the attack, and live with the mistakes. But he needs to play with someone really smart and sound defensively.

Dahlin looked his best this season with Borgen. Up until Borgen broke his arm blocking a shot. Now whether he's a long-term solution or not is another story altogether, but Borgen made good reads and was defensively sound in his few games. And best of all, he can skate.

Which means even without the injury, he'd still be scratched.