What do you think Ken Holland does if we miss the playoffs?

[The Zetterberg Era]

Serious question: When was the last time we had players who (a) had reason to request a trade, (b) actually had value, and (c) we didn't have reason to keep around?

I'm blanking. Only names I can think of are Hudler and Flip, who really didn't seem to like it here under Babcock, but we were a playoff team and we arguably had good reason to keep both of them around.

Smith was allegedly on the block last year, and I could see why he'd want a change of scenery, so I could see him being moved. And while I agree that Holland will probably try to retain Vanek, I see very little reason why Vanek would agree to that. The team is going nowhere, there's no big infusion of talent expected, and Metro Detroit as an area isn't up there in terms of desirability.

Same thing with Green. I could see him asking to be moved at the deadline if the offers are there. The body language on the ice suggests this team is not fun to play for right now and, for Green, I can't imagine it was that great last year either. But that's the only way I see him getting traded.

I get why posters with no knowledge of the city and in particular the surrounding area fall into this USA Today or Time Magazine narrative. But the idea that Metro Detroit isn't desirable is pretty laughable to me. The suburbs of Detroit are some of the nicest areas on the planet and the schools for families are fantastic.

The problem with Metro Detroit is some of the best areas are incredibly expensive but that isn't an issue for our players. A guy like Vanek who has kept his family in Minnesota for years might actually look around Detroit and think hey I can finally bring my whole family to the city I play in again as I am sure that was a disappointing part about Minnesota not working out. But my guess is a married guy with three kids isn't exactly worried about the night life and sees the suburban area of Detroit for what it is. A spectacular place to live.

The worst part about being a Red Wings player is actually their building. Which you know goes away next year in terms of the JLA being incredibly poor in the player dressing room.

The reason we have done better with older players over the years is they have a better understanding of what the Detroit area is. Many of them have stayed in the Townsend over the years and been to the surrounding areas. They have friends in the game that likely sell living in the area as Detroit remains an extremely popular off-season area with NHL players. Look at all of our sports teams, we don't have trouble locking up talent once it arrives in town. The reason for that is living in Detroit's suburbs isn't bad at all, in fact you will struggle to find nicer places at least I have when traveling.

 

[Winger98]

also, I think it helps that Michigan in general is very hockey friendly without being a media fish bowl. Players who like the history of the league/team but want to maintain some level of privacy would have a hard time beating the combination that Detroit offers, regardless of how much fans might wish the sports writers were a bit more...combative.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

also, I think it helps that Michigan in general is very hockey friendly without being a media fish bowl. Players who like the history of the league/team but want to maintain some level of privacy would have a hard time beating the combination that Detroit offers, regardless of how much fans might wish the sports writers were a bit more...combative.

Completely agree. I am curious if the downward trend continues when the kids gloves get taken off though. The Wings have been able to keep a thumb on the media in part because of how successful they have been. The other teams don't enjoy as much control of the press and the Wings better buckle up because I think this is one of the things that goes out the window first. It isn't going to become Toronto or anything, but I think things could get bumpy in a second here.

Papers sell more when speaking to their audience. Well the Wings audience is frustrated, a reporter taking them to task in print is going to get more volume these days and that decision from the local press is coming in my opinion.

 

[Frk It]

Completely agree. I am curious if the downward trend continues when the kids gloves get taken off though. The Wings have been able to keep a thumb on the media in part because of how successful they have been. The other teams don't enjoy as much control of the press and the Wings better buckle up because I think this is one of the things that goes out the window first. It isn't going to become Toronto or anything, but I think things could get bumpy in a second here.

Papers sell more when speaking to their audience. Well the Wings audience is frustrated, a reporter taking them to task in print is going to get more volume these days and that decision from the local press is coming in my opinion.

Yeah, we seem to be trending this way. I have seen more articles starting to be critical of Holland this season than I have seen the last 5 years combined, probably.

 

[jkutswings]

Completely agree. I am curious if the downward trend continues when the kids gloves get taken off though. The Wings have been able to keep a thumb on the media in part because of how successful they have been. The other teams don't enjoy as much control of the press and the Wings better buckle up because I think this is one of the things that goes out the window first. It isn't going to become Toronto or anything, but I think things could get bumpy in a second here.

Papers sell more when speaking to their audience. Well the Wings audience is frustrated, a reporter taking them to task in print is going to get more volume these days and that decision from the local press is coming in my opinion.

True, but Detroit sports media in general is pretty soft compared to other large markets. The Tigers and Pistons have gone through prolonged rough stretches, and it's not like the franchises were really held to the fire in the media. Heck, the Lions have been awful for half a century, and they don't really get killed in anything more than occasional editorials.

It's been nice to see public discussion increasing a bit regarding the slide for the Wings, but I don't expect the market to ever really get critical, even if it gets ugly. If memory serves, the "Dead Wings" era was more media apathy than criticism.

 

[HIFE]

Serious question: When was the last time we had players who (a) had reason to request a trade, (b) actually had value, and (c) we didn't have reason to keep around?...

I read your post this morning, hilarious. Literally years of unceasing debate over the trade value of our almost worthless players. Tatar+ Jurco for Trouba! The Detroit board (and probably all of HF) drastcally overvalue our guys it is comical. I didn't understand at the time but I remember a few bemoaning the fact we got nothing for Hudler or Filppula, another example of Holland sitting on his hands.

As for Green- sometimes in sports a great player may not mind being the best player on a losing team. You know what you're contributing and can take pride in your place as true leader. Just a thought.

I get why posters with no knowledge of the city and in particular the surrounding area fall into this USA Today or Time Magazine narrative. But the idea that Metro Detroit isn't desirable is pretty laughable to me. The suburbs of Detroit are some of the nicest areas on the planet and the schools for families are fantastic...

Types this from a beach in south Florida.... Just joking. Yeah I wouldn't say Detroit and the burbs are a bad place, but they are far from being a city that has a huge amount to offer. I've been to Chicago, Seattle, New York, LA, many other cities and there are masses of people that actually fill the public spaces with all types of activities. Pittsburgh is another I've only read about has a vibrant night life.

Besides Greektown, the casinos, or the newly developed river walk, Detroit has VERY little life and energy compared. The suburbs where most Wings live (Novi, Farmington Hills, etc.) are extremely dull. Novi has a shopping mall. I guess life anywhere is what you make it. Our schools are adequate and the parks are gorgeous. Still not sure I'd label the area as exceptionally "desirable" to a younger professional athlete.

True, but Detroit sports media in general is pretty soft compared to other large markets. The Tigers and Pistons have gone through prolonged rough stretches, and it's not like the franchises were really held to the fire in the media. Heck, the Lions have been awful for half a century, and they don't really get killed in anything more than occasional editorials.

It's been nice to see public discussion increasing a bit regarding the slide for the Wings, but I don't expect the market to ever really get critical, even if it gets ugly. If memory serves, the "Dead Wings" era was more media apathy than criticism.

Just wanted to point out this small reference. I'm reading fans labeling the 70's-80's team the "dead things", I've NEVER heard them called that before. I grew up in the latter end of that time period and they were known by all as the DEAD WINGS.

 

[odin1981]

Probably not much in all likely hood. Ken Holland has really salary capped the wings in. The team will have to go dollar for dollar on any trade. Where if we had say 2.5-3 million under the cap it would multiply towards the deadline to around 5-7 million of space. Then at least they would potentially be able to move around say one bad long term contract for a slightly less bad shorter term deal (say for example trading abby for a player on a 4-5 year deal instead of his 6-7 year deal).

Also aside from Green (NTC though), Vanek, and say Nyquist we don't really have any contracts other teams would be particularly interested in. Tats unfortunately is highly violatile in terms of production and what he brings. Larkin and Mrazek are more than likely good pieces to keep and will play a role in the future but unfortunately are in the midst of sophomore slumps. DDK isn't doing great but right now is in over his head atm ( I would peg him as just a #3 at present with potential for #2 duties in 2-3 years in his prime).

So best case scenario is we can unload Vanek at the deadline if any of the contending teams have room (unlikely) for a late 1st.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Prepare for the worst. This is from an insider-only article from Craig Custance, who is a bit of a Wings insider:

RW Gustav Nyquist, Detroit Red Wings: The sense from his colleagues is that Detroit GM Ken Holland is eager to make a move to improve his struggling team.

“He’s not going to wait around,” said one NHL executive.

Adding to the urgency is the dominance of the Metropolitan Division teams this season, making it looking like that division will have a stranglehold on the two wild-card slots. The Red Wings are currently five points behind the Bruins in the Atlantic, and the Bruins are the better team right now, one that is probably a little luck way from going on a run.

Detroit needs a top-four defenseman, and its depth at forward makes a player like Nyquist expendable. His goal scoring is down some, but he’s shooting just 5.8 percent so that may turn around sooner than later.

P.S. This is the link: http://www.espn.com/blog/craig-custance/insider/post?id=8545

 

[Frk It]

Prepare for the worst. This is from an insider-only article from Craig Custance, who is a bit of a Wings insider:

****. I don't like the smell of this.

Just don't do something stupid, like trade for a defenseman like Edler. Please.

 

[Dotter]

I get why posters with no knowledge of the city and in particular the surrounding area fall into this USA Today or Time Magazine narrative. But the idea that Metro Detroit isn't desirable is pretty laughable to me. The suburbs of Detroit are some of the nicest areas on the planet and the schools for families are fantastic.

The problem with Metro Detroit is some of the best areas are incredibly expensive but that isn't an issue for our players. A guy like Vanek who has kept his family in Minnesota for years might actually look around Detroit and think hey I can finally bring my whole family to the city I play in again as I am sure that was a disappointing part about Minnesota not working out. But my guess is a married guy with three kids isn't exactly worried about the night life and sees the suburban area of Detroit for what it is. A spectacular place to live.

The worst part about being a Red Wings player is actually their building. Which you know goes away next year in terms of the JLA being incredibly poor in the player dressing room.

The reason we have done better with older players over the years is they have a better understanding of what the Detroit area is. Many of them have stayed in the Townsend over the years and been to the surrounding areas. They have friends in the game that likely sell living in the area as Detroit remains an extremely popular off-season area with NHL players. Look at all of our sports teams, we don't have trouble locking up talent once it arrives in town. The reason for that is living in Detroit's suburbs isn't bad at all, in fact you will struggle to find nicer places at least I have when traveling.

I believe you are well traveled, but perhaps we should question if you've ever been to some of the nice area's around the country? I have lived in two of the top 20 wealthiest counties in the Nation. And I can tell you from personal experience that, while there may be "not bad" area's in the 'burbs of Detroit to live. It's really not close to struggle to find a nicer places to live or raise a family as you said.

I am sure there are nice places to live in the 'burbs of Detroit, I have seen it with my own two eyes. But it's not that amazing when you look around some of the areas live around the nation to play hockey. Especially if consider raising a family, roads, infrastructure, metro crime rate, weather and etc...

I don't often agree with Reddwit on everything, but I do agree that is def an area of concern.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

Prepare for the worst. This is from an insider-only article from Craig Custance, who is a bit of a Wings insider:



P.S. This is the link: http://www.espn.com/blog/craig-custance/insider/post?id=8545

I really don't see this article any different than all the others over the past few years. I'll believe it when I see it. Being eager to trade and being able to trade are totally different things.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I really don't see this article any different than all the others over the past few years. I'll believe it when I see it. Being eager to trade and being able to trade are totally different things.

Right, but I worry the desperation of the situation will make Holland willing to overpay. He's done that before to try to save the season.

Nyquist+top 5 pick in 2017+cap dump for Trouba?

 

[jkutswings]

****. I don't like the smell of this.

Just don't do something stupid, like trade for a defenseman like Edler. Please.

Agreed. A trade at this time will be scrutinized VERY closely. If Holland somehow manages to package Nyquist for a good defenseman, then kudos. If it's Gus leaving in exchange for Clayton Stoner, oh boy...

(And yes, I know there is a whole spectrum in between fleecing and getting fleeced, but trades aren't exactly Kenny's forte, so we'll see.)

 

[obey86]

Prepare for the worst. This is from an insider-only article from Craig Custance, who is a bit of a Wings insider:



P.S. This is the link: http://www.espn.com/blog/craig-custance/insider/post?id=8545

If he trades a forward or two for a young defensemen who can be here for years to come i'm not going to complain. I just hope he doesn't trade for an older guy.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

If he trades a forward or two for a young defensemen who can be here for years to come i'm not going to complain. I just hope he doesn't trade for an older guy.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it comes across like the implication is that Holland is trying to improve the team for this season. I have to think that would be an older guy, especially since Nyquist isn't likely to have a lot of value.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

Right, but I worry the desperation of the situation will make Holland willing to overpay. He's done that before to try to save the season.

Nyquist+top 5 pick in 2017+cap dump for Trouba?

Haven't checked, but I doubt this is the first time this team has been 5 points out of a PO spot 30 some odd games in, and its not like Holland wanting a top 4 D is new this year.

Pretty much every and any Dman that that was/is thought to be available has been, in varying degrees, linked or thought to be a good fit in Detroit. Myers, Edler, Phaneuf, Shattenkirk, Trouba, Fowler and most recently Hamilton are just off the top of my head(likely others) and I don't see them on the current roster.

I just don't see right now being desparation time for Holland. If it was closer to the deadline, and Wings are still 5+ points out, then sure, I wouldn't just shrug this off as being the same old article we see.

 

[Frk It]

Haven't checked, but I doubt this is the first time this team has been 5 points out of a PO spot 30 some odd games in, and its not like Holland wanting a top 4 D is new this year.

Pretty much every and any Dman that that was/is thought to be available has been, in varying degrees, linked or thought to be a good fit in Detroit. Myers, Edler, Phaneuf, Shattenkirk, Trouba, Fowler and most recently Hamilton are just off the top of my head(likely others) and I don't see them on the current roster.

I just don't see right now being desparation time for Holland. If it was closer to the deadline, and Wings are still 5+ points out, then sure, I wouldn't just shrug this off as being the same old article we see.

You look at the standings and don't think it might be desperation time for Holland?

Well... alright, man. I hope you're right, but I really doubt it.

 

[Syckle78]

Prepare for the worst. This is from an insider-only article from Craig Custance, who is a bit of a Wings insider:



P.S. This is the link: http://www.espn.com/blog/craig-custance/insider/post?id=8545

I feel like this post should of been accompanied by some ominous music you'd hear in a horror film before someone gets hacked to pieces.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

You look at the standings and don't think it might be desperation time for Holland?

Well... alright, man. I hope you're right, but I really doubt it.

I don't see right now being any more desparate of time than last year's TDL.

 

[Syckle78]

I don't see right now being any more desparate of time than last year's TDL.

We're bottom 5 in the league. At last years tdl we were jostling for a playoff spot. There's absolutely more reason to be more desperate now than then. Not to mention he spent a butt load of money in the off season and has nothing to show for it as far as on ice results going into the new barn next year. This is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Dotter]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it comes across like the implication is that Holland is trying to improve the team for this season. I have to think that would be an older guy, especially since Nyquist isn't likely to have a lot of value.

The source he referred was espn. I think that is like 5 steps worse than using Ekland's (e2) as a source. I think I'd more likely believe a streetside Vegas tarot card reader over these sources.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

We're bottom 5 in the league. At last years tdl we were jostling for a playoff spot. There's absolutely more reason to be more desperate now than then. Not to mention he spent a butt load of money in the off season and has nothing to show for it as far as on ice results going into the new barn next year. This is a recipe for disaster.

Oh, well in that case, sorry for being so skeptical over an an article that's full of the same thing that's been trotted out on pretty much a monthly basis since Lidstrom retired.

As I said before, I'll believe it when I actually see it. Right now, I'm not getting my hopes up nor fearing the worst over something I've read over and over again.

 

[Syckle78]

The source he referred was espn. I think that is like 5 steps worse than using Ekland's (e2) as a source. I think I'd more likely believe a streetside Vegas tarot card reader over these sources.

ESPN is an entity not the source. The source is custance whom has been a solid nhl insider for years.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

ESPN is an entity not the source. The source is custance whom has been a solid nhl insider for years.

In particular, Custance is a super solid guy when it comes to Detroit. He's based in Ann Arbor and is quite plugged in with the organization. This is absolutely not a bogus source.

 

[Dotter]

If that Custance guy is "solid", then he has said many times in the past that Kevin Shattenkirk is hot on the trade block.

Blues never traded him. But there is still some time if they really wanted to.