What did Winnipeg do differently from us?

[HoweHullOrr]

The Jets acquired talent over many years and are a well built team. When they finally got good goaltending, they leaped into the (true) contender echelon. We are far too optimistic about how long this process takes in the vast majority of cases.

 

[Tak7]

Winnipeg were patient.

That's the key difference. Some fans here think the Leafs are contenders already, without really understanding what it means to be a contender.

Winnipeg is the prime example - just having very good players on a roster isn't enough to make you a contender. You need system, structure, experience, and a know-how of getting things done at this time of year. All things that the Leafs currently lack

 

[Trapper]

Boston has some core players who could be worse next season. I do not expect them to be better than the Leafs next season.

Time catches up with everyone and while it's true they have some core that could be worse, they also have some players (Debrusk,Pastrnak) who could be significantly better.

 

[-DeMo-]

I don't get a lot of the comments?

The Leafs have been rebuilding for 3 seasons.
The Jets started their rebuild like 6-10 years ago.

That's why their better at the moment (note: the Leafs should have been rebuilding as well, but Burke thought Kessel, Phaneuf & Bozak would take us to the promised land).

However...the Jets did a good job sticking with the build.

They avoided losing assets in their bubble years & they hit on a ton of mid/late 1st rounders:

2nd | Laine (no credit given)
7th | Scheifele
9th | Trouba
9th | Ehlers
17th | Connor
18th | Stanley (No idea - but he's huge)
24th | Vesalainen (I think he'll be good)
25th | Roslovic (I think he'll be good)


One thing the Leafs may be struggling with is asset retention.

We could have had all the picks below (if players were moved at a good time):

1st Rounder + | JVR
1st Rounder + | Gardiner
2nd Rounder | Bozak
2nd Rounder | Boyle Trade
2nd Rounder | Pleks Trade
3rd Rounder | Komarov

why do people say we've only been rebuilding for 3 years? we've been rebuilding since like 2004.

 

[Tak7]

why do people say we've only been rebuilding for 3 years? we've been rebuilding since like 2004.

They've only been "trying to lose" more recently. The stuff before that was just inept management & poor evaluations of the roster.

That's not necessarily considered a rebuild.

 

[Gary Nylund]

why do people say we've only been rebuilding for 3 years? we've been rebuilding since like 2004.

Just a guess but I think it might make people feel better about losing in the 1st round - hey look, we have an excuse for losing or something like that. 3 years, 13 years, 30 years, I couldn't care less. All I care about is where we are today and how we get to where we want to be, that's it.

 

[-DeMo-]

They've only been "trying to lose" more recently. The stuff before that was just inept management & poor evaluations of the roster.

That's not necessarily considered a rebuild.

in 08 Fletcher was brought in to clean the slate for a new GM how is that not a rebuilding point? just because it failed and needed to clean the slate again doesn't mean we haven't been rebuilding since then. we've drafted parts of our Core like Kadri/Nylander/Reilly alot longer then 3 years ago.

 

[Pookie]

why do people say we've only been rebuilding for 3 years? we've been rebuilding since like 2004.

What?

Oh right. It’s legal now.

 

[Pookie]

in 08 Fletcher was brought in to clean the slate for a new GM how is that not a rebuilding point? just because it failed and needed to clean the slate again doesn't mean we haven't been rebuilding since then. we've drafted parts of our Core like Kadri/Nylander/Reilly alot longer then 3 years ago.

We drafted every year. Even when not rebuilding.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

in 08 Fletcher was brought in to clean the slate for a new GM how is that not a rebuilding point? just because it failed and needed to clean the slate again doesn't mean we haven't been rebuilding since then. we've drafted parts of our Core like Kadri/Nylander/Reilly alot longer then 3 years ago.

The leaders of the core here are 20, save Rielly who is 24. The leaders of their core all have 7+ years NHL experience.

Before anyone starts, yes Kadri I would consider core and for example Laine and Ehlers but the top 4 producers on their team are all vets. The comparables are Matthews vs Laine, Nylander vs Ehlers, Rielly vs Trouba. There is no real Marner comparable. Winnpeg's four leading PO guys: Scheifele, Wheeler, Stastny and Byfuglien. That's where we don't compare yet. Imagine Winnipeg minus those 4. Also obviously need to address the D but advance us a couple years and Rielly/Dermott/Liljegren should be 3 pretty solid guys. Need to fill it out. Would like to get Petry in that mix (he's the guy I wanted them to target, not Plekanec so ship may have sailed) if available for a good price. Would kill to get Ellis but unlikely.

 

[drewjenks]

why do people say we've only been rebuilding for 3 years? we've been rebuilding since like 2004.

Tak7 said it best.

Burke & Nonis wern't actually rebuilding....they were just bad GM's.

Shanahan started the rebuild the year we came in last place.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Tak7 said it best.

Burke & Nonis wern't actually rebuilding....they were just bad GM's.

Shanahan started the rebuild the year we came in last place.

Earlier, it started when Carlyle was fired after Shanny had seen enough of the core that Burke and Nonis built. So 3 and 1/2 years we've been rebuilding.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

What Winnipeg did and what we should continue to do is to not trade away our core and semi-core pieces just because the process has hit a speed bump on the way to becoming a true contender. Imagine if Winnipeg had decided to trade one of Wheeler, Byfuglien, Hellebuyck, Scheifele (who was the same age as Nylander, and older than Matthews and Marner when they were swept by Anaheim), or Ehlers during they're struggles after getting swept and failing to make the playoffs between 2015-2017? They didn't panic and trade their key players away to fill holes like many here are so eager to do. So many are ready to part ways with Nylander, Kadri, Gardiner, etc. because we're not where we "should be" as a team. Who decided where we should be right now?

If the Leafs had missed the playoffs in 16-17 like the majority of people predicted, this years' game 7 semi-collapse against the Bruins would be seen in a much different light. As it stands, because we're out in the first round in back to back years (when our best players are 20-21 mind you) we need to start making moves now because we've got these huge holes to fill and no time to wait in filling them. Christ, I thought we were all about patience now?

 

[scotian1]

Winnipeg's recipe = skill+speed+size

 

[Pookie]

Earlier, it started when Carlyle was fired after Shanny had seen enough of the core that Burke and Nonis built. So 3 and 1/2 years we've been rebuilding.

Almost.

Carlyle was fried with Board permission for being in danger of falling out of a playoff spot.

If you want to tank, you don’t fire a losing coach.

That decision to replace him with Horachek and play a style that Shanahan/Dubas believed in, backfired.

Shanahan had to go back to the Board about a month later, after a massive losing streak and ask for permission to change course and scorch the earth.

That’s when it began.

 

[Stephen]

Looks like the difference is they'll lose in the third round and not the first...

 

[Pi]

Winnipeg were patient.

That's the key difference. Some fans here think the Leafs are contenders already, without really understanding what it means to be a contender.

Winnipeg is the prime example - just having very good players on a roster isn't enough to make you a contender. You need system, structure, experience, and a know-how of getting things done at this time of year. All things that the Leafs currently lack

I agree with a lot of what you say but this is just not true.

Take a look up and down Vegas’ lineup, does it scream contender at all? Yet they are 2 wins away from the SCF.

The Leafs absolutely are contenders but there is a lot of factors that decide playoff success. We got a team as good as us right off the hop.

 

[LeafFever]

Yeah, you have to live in a world where Vegas doesn't exist to say the Leafs are nowhere close to being a contender. They lost in 7 games and almost no one showed up.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Here they are headed to the WCF having beat some pretty good teams. They look legit.

When they inherited Atlanta’s roster it wasn’t anything special and they were a bottom feeder, just like Toronto. Yet they appear to be in a much better position than us. Why?

They're a rare combo of being big and fast. We're just fast.
Not to mention their dcore is worlds better than ours.

 

[Stephen]

Vegas isn't big but they play hard and fast and that seems to be trumping Winnipeg's size. We certainly have the tools if the kids have the will.

 

[Mess]

Vegas isn't big but they play hard and fast and that seems to be trumping Winnipeg's size. We certainly have the tools if the kids have the will.

Vegas has Ryan Reaves who might be the last of the "tough guys" in the NHL and they have 6-4 Brayden McNabb and those 2 player finished 8th and 12th in the NHL in hits this year.

So there is lots of push back ability here.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Vegas is unreal
First year in the league and have gone further than the Leafs have in...........

 

[Trapper]

Vegas has Ryan Reaves who might be the last of the "tough guys" in the NHL and they have 6-4 Brayden McNabb and those 2 player finished 8th and 12th in the NHL in hits this year.

So there is lots of push back ability here.

Consistency is a big plus for Vegas. For the most part the players execute the same way every night. Puck battles, gap control, speed, coverage etc.
We seriously lack consistency. Some of our players are Jekyll and Hyde. We can fail on the execution at times.

 

[Mess]

Consistency is a big plus for Vegas. For the most part the players execute the same way every night. Puck battles, gap control, speed, coverage etc.
We seriously lack consistency. Some of our players are Jekyll and Hyde. We can fail on the execution at times.

Vegas is the team full of Zach Hyman type players on effort every game with varying degrees of skill level.

On the Leafs Zach Hyman stands out by his 110% nightly effort, on Vegas he would simply blend into the crowd as almost everyone plays with the same intensity night in and night out.

 

[Mess]

Vegas is unreal
First year in the league and have gone further than the Leafs have in...........

Vegas in their 1st year finished with 109 points, made up of a team of castoffs where Leafs needed 100 years to set their best ever mark at 105 points this year.

That is the stat that amazes me most.

They do that on the merits of hard work and 100% effort throughout their line-up with very few passengers when it comes to contributing to the blue collar workman like mentality.