What did Winnipeg do differently from us?

[nobody]

What did NJ, Arizona, Edmonton, Ottawa, Montreal and St. Louis all do different from us? Because all of those teams have made it to the conf finals only once and never sniffed it again. 4 of those 6 teams didn't even make the playoffs. (Edmonton made it to the 2md round 7 games last year and were the favs going into this year to win it all)

How about we all wait and see how Winnipeg does next season to see if this year was a norm or a fluke run for them. Then we'll decide what they did differently.

On the flip side, I find it rather ironic that Jets fans are putting down Vegas and calling their season and playoff run a fluke. While they fail to realize that their team hadn't made the playoffs in 4 years and both their goalie had a massive season out of the blue along with their 32 year old captain who had the best year of his life. Neither things happen on the regular and are the farthest from the norm.

As great as Schiefele has been for them this playoffs, if you take away Blake Wheeler from that lineup, they don't make it past the Preds. Wheeler has been feeding easy goals to that entire team. The guy has been absolutely unreal.

 

[ToneDog]

Consistency is a big plus for Vegas. For the most part the players execute the same way every night. Puck battles, gap control, speed, coverage etc.
We seriously lack consistency. Some of our players are Jekyll and Hyde. We can fail on the execution at times.

Many posters have claimed that speed and skill beats size and toughness all the time. What they don't realize is that "will" beats skill sometimes. We need more "will".

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Tak7 said it best.

Burke & Nonis wern't actually rebuilding....they were just bad GM's.

Shanahan started the rebuild the year we came in last place.

To me, its a bunch of splitting hairs, semantics & differences in terminology. When a team finishes in the bottom 1/3rd of the standings consistently over the span of several years, management needs to rebuild regardless of what label or term it uses to describe its approach.

 

[hoglund]

What?

Oh right. It’s legal now.

It's not legal until July.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Many posters have claimed that speed and skill beats size and toughness all the time. What they don't realize is that "will" beats skill sometimes. We need more "will".

Hard work frequently beats talent that doesn't work hard.

 

[charliolemieux]

Hard work frequently beats talent that doesn't work hard.

Very true.
And in the case of Vegas, all but a couple players have a very large chip on their shoulders for being left available in the expansion draft.
They work hard and have something to prove.
Ethic and Ethos, a dangerous combination for anyone who goes against it.

 

[mydnyte]

they never bottomed out like we did ...they got lucky in the draft, otherwise they were noplace near as bad as we were.
We are 2 years behind Buffalo, and more than that behind Arizona in our rebuild if that helps put things into a better perspective. where are they?

 

[Pyromaniac]

Suck it Winnipeg.

 

[charliolemieux]

Suck it Winnipeg.

lol Just because...

 

[bobbyorr04]

Vegas is unreal
First year in the league and have gone further than the Leafs have in...........

Great goaltending, solid D, hard working forwards with speed who don't get rattled and don't shy away from physical contact....combined with great coaching and great home town fans.

= pretty damn good team!

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

What Winnipeg did and what we should continue to do is to not trade away our core and semi-core pieces just because the process has hit a speed bump on the way to becoming a true contender. Imagine if Winnipeg had decided to trade one of Wheeler, Byfuglien, Hellebuyck, Scheifele (who was the same age as Nylander, and older than Matthews and Marner when they were swept by Anaheim), or Ehlers during they're struggles after getting swept and failing to make the playoffs between 2015-2017? They didn't panic and trade their key players away to fill holes like many here are so eager to do. So many are ready to part ways with Nylander, Kadri, Gardiner, etc. because we're not where we "should be" as a team. Who decided where we should be right now?

If the Leafs had missed the playoffs in 16-17 like the majority of people predicted, this years' game 7 semi-collapse against the Bruins would be seen in a much different light. As it stands, because we're out in the first round in back to back years (when our best players are 20-21 mind you) we need to start making moves now because we've got these huge holes to fill and no time to wait in filling them. Christ, I thought we were all about patience now?

Certain fans want to be patient, but management has shown they want to speed things up. This team is NOT rebuilding. Rebuild ended mid way through the season after we drafted Matthews meaning it lasted what? 2 years, 3 years max if we're talking about when Carlyle was fired. Rebuilding teams don't trade picks for 4th line deadline rentals. Most rebuilding teams don't hold onto valuable FA that they have no intentions of signing. If this team is still "rebuilding" it is one of the most backward rebuilds I've seen in the NHL. And now people want to trade guys like Nylander for older Dmen. Again backwards rebuild.

If you want to say the rebuild started when we drafted Kadri or maybe Rielly that's another story. But when it comes to the idea that the rebuild started two years ago we can see it ended before it could really get started. Babcock was preaching "pain" but it seems him and management didn't want to go through any real pain. However it backfired for us as we have traded 2 2nds. Lost out on a nice return for JVR and all we have to show for it are 2 first round exits. I think most people would rather have those two first round exits + 2 2nds and the return New York got for Nash +.

On the bright side we haven't done anything too drastic like trade Marners or Nylander. However, the scary thing is that now that we have made the playoffs two times in a row improvement will be expected. This can lead to knee jerk moves that might not have happened had we taken a different path. Let's just hope for the best.

 

[nobody]

I don't think I've ever enjoyed reading another teams PGTs.

Jets fans are losing their minds blaming bad bounces and refereeing for their losses. While their sieve of a goalie can't make a stop to save his life and all he does in the post game is blame his luck. Hockey is a game of karma. The good bounces you had today will catch up to you tomorrow. Same goes for penalties. Crucial cross check to the face of Scheifele which could've been a 4 minute PP for the Jets instead swings momentum for the VGK by becoming a 2 minute slashing penalty. We all remember the atrocity that was the missed crosscheck to the neck against Minny that basically took wind out of the Wilds sails. Hellebuyck is one of the most cocky goalies I've ever seen give a post-game interview. It wouldn't kill you to admit that you played like shit instead of pretending like Vegas is playing 100 hockey off pure bounces. That's a lot of bad juju.

Also, the person who made this thread should feel very bad about it. Playoff hockey is about getting good goaltending, timely bounces and making quick vital adjustments. The Leafs were victims of poor goaltending and as this series has shown, if your goalie can't make a save, even the mighty Jets may fall. Just like the Preds and Penguins.

 

[drewjenks]

To me, its a bunch of splitting hairs, semantics & differences in terminology. When a team finishes in the bottom 1/3rd of the standings consistently over the span of several years, management needs to rebuild regardless of what label or term it uses to describe its approach.

So you're saying that Burke was rebuilding when he traded a 1st + 1st + 2nd for Kessel?

 

[Pookie]

Very true.
And in the case of Vegas, all but a couple players have a very large chip on their shoulders for being left available in the expansion draft.
They work hard and have something to prove.
Ethic and Ethos, a dangerous combination for anyone who goes against it.

It’s a nice story but we’ve had expansion drafts before.

Last one was 2000, with Columbus and Minnesota coming in.

Both had “discarded” players with chips and something to prove.

Minnesota made the playoffs just 3 times in their first decade. Columbus took 7 years to get in.

Rules were “tweaked” to allow a Vegas to be competitive out of the gate. One might argue they require a little more tweaking in the other direction.

 

[Drytoast]

Think the question needs to be asked here;

What did Vegas do differently to every other team in the league?

Top player makes 5 mil
Team consists of spare parts and cast a ways.

Apparently no NHL team gm and scout can properly predict talent outside of mcdavid and matthews.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Certain fans want to be patient, but management has shown they want to speed things up. This team is NOT rebuilding. Rebuild ended mid way through the season after we drafted Matthews meaning it lasted what? 2 years, 3 years max if we're talking about when Carlyle was fired. Rebuilding teams don't trade picks for 4th line deadline rentals. Most rebuilding teams don't hold onto valuable FA that they have no intentions of signing. If this team is still "rebuilding" it is one of the most backward rebuilds I've seen in the NHL. And now people want to trade guys like Nylander for older Dmen. Again backwards rebuild.

If you want to say the rebuild started when we drafted Kadri or maybe Rielly that's another story. But when it comes to the idea that the rebuild started two years ago we can see it ended before it could really get started. Babcock was preaching "pain" but it seems him and management didn't want to go through any real pain. However it backfired for us as we have traded 2 2nds. Lost out on a nice return for JVR and all we have to show for it are 2 first round exits. I think most people would rather have those two first round exits + 2 2nds and the return New York got for Nash +.

On the bright side we haven't done anything too drastic like trade Marners or Nylander. However, the scary thing is that now that we have made the playoffs two times in a row improvement will be expected. This can lead to knee jerk moves that might not have happened had we taken a different path. Let's just hope for the best.

 

[Pi]

It’s a nice story but we’ve had expansion drafts before.

Last one was 2000, with Columbus and Minnesota coming in.

Both had “discarded” players with chips and something to prove.

Minnesota made the playoffs just 3 times in their first decade. Columbus took 7 years to get in.

Rules were “tweaked” to allow a Vegas to be competitive out of the gate. One might argue they require a little more tweaking in the other direction.

I think the main difference isn’t that they were handed better players. It’s that the expansion draft happened after the lockout with the salary cap in place.

If there was no salary cap, do you think Vegas would have gotten Fleury? Pittsburgh would have just kept him.

If Florida wasn’t cash strapped they wouldn’t have given Marchessault and Rielly Smith for nothing.

 

[Menzinger]

It’s a nice story but we’ve had expansion drafts before.

Last one was 2000, with Columbus and Minnesota coming in.

Both had “discarded” players with chips and something to prove.

Minnesota made the playoffs just 3 times in their first decade. Columbus took 7 years to get in.

Rules were “tweaked” to allow a Vegas to be competitive out of the gate. One might argue they require a little more tweaking in the other direction.

Though at the time of the expansion draft, not a single major commentator said “this is a contender” when describing Vegas.

In fact I’d say the broad consensus from a lot of folks following the draft was that McPhee screwed up his draft strategy. Ie by letting teams like the Wild keep their top 4 D in return for what seemed to be lesser assets like Tuch and Haula.

 

[Menzinger]

I think the main difference isn’t that they were handed better players. It’s that the expansion draft happened after the lockout with the salary cap in place.

If there was no salary cap, do you think Vegas would have gotten Fleury? Pittsburgh would have just kept him.

If Florida wasn’t cash strapped they wouldn’t have given Marchessault and Rielly Smith for nothing.

Eh, if Tallon wasn’t both an idiot and incompetent at his job Florida could have avoided what they did even with the salary cap constraint.

Don’t disagree though beyond that case, that the salary cap was a factor though.

 

[ShaneFalco]

It. Is true thouh the LV management team and coaches look like geniuses right now

 

[Pookie]

I think the main difference isn’t that they were handed better players. It’s that the expansion draft happened after the lockout with the salary cap in place.

If there was no salary cap, do you think Vegas would have gotten Fleury? Pittsburgh would have just kept him.

If Florida wasn’t cash strapped they wouldn’t have given Marchessault and Rielly Smith for nothing.

Sorry, the cap isn’t the differentiator. This was a purposeful tweak with one intent, to make Vegas more competitive out of the gate.

On the differences between the 2000 and 2017 NHL Expansion Drafts:

“We have made that a point to (general managers that) they are going to be forced to expose better players (in an expansion draft)," deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Wednesday at the general manager meetings.

 

[Buds17]

I think the main difference isn’t that they were handed better players. It’s that the expansion draft happened after the lockout with the salary cap in place.

If there was no salary cap, do you think Vegas would have gotten Fleury? Pittsburgh would have just kept him.

If Florida wasn’t cash strapped they wouldn’t have given Marchessault and Rielly Smith for nothing.

Yes and no. Even without the cap, Pittsburgh would've been faced with making Fleury available due to the expansion draft requirements. That said, they could've attempted to work out a side deal to have Vegas select someone else. Keeping both goalies would've tied up a lot of money in net, but perhaps without a cap, that's not too big of a deal.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Hellebuyck is putting up Andersen caliber numbers and Winnipeg is suddenly down 3-1. No matter how good you are, you can't overcome terrible goaltending, unless the other goalie happens to be even worse

 

[HoweHullOrr]

So you're saying that Burke was rebuilding when he traded a 1st + 1st + 2nd for Kessel?

No, I think Burke changed his philosophy after the Kessel blunder. In 2012 when they drafted Reilly he was rebuilding.

I think the confusion arises (imho) more so with the concepts of "tanking" versus "rebuilding". We've been rebuilding for quite some time. The tank didn't occur until the year before the Matthews draft.

 

[IPS]

Hellebuyck is putting up Andersen caliber numbers and Winnipeg is suddenly down 3-1. No matter how good you are, you can't overcome terrible goaltending, unless the other goalie happens to be even worse

In the same fashion too.

Jesus how many times has Hellebuyck given up a goal immediately after his team scores? Shit is deflating as hell to the team in front of you.