What are the Blues missing?

[SpeedDemon]

They have great forward depth, great defense, and pretty good goaltending. Yet, they've lost in the 1st round 3 years in a row. What do they need to go far in the playoffs?

A four leaf clover, a rabbit's foot, a horseshoe, and anything else "lucky" that they can get their hands on. They only thing stopping this team from a Stanley Cup appearance is a string of ridiculously repetitive bad luck.

 

[Dbrownss]

A four leaf clover, a rabbit's foot, a horseshoe, and anything else "lucky" that they can get their hands on. They only thing stopping this team from a Stanley Cup appearance is a string of ridiculously repetitive bad luck.

Not this year...with how Chicago dispatched Minnesota. It shows just how bad the Blues choked this year. They never played with the fire and intensity they had against Chicago and Los Angeles

 

[sfvega]

I notice you only chose to address my general point after I stated what Fuhr specifically allowed the team in front of him to do.

He also won the greatest best-of-3 series I've ever seen (the best hockey I've ever witnessed, in fact) despite allowing 6, 5, and 5 goals respectively.

What made him great wasn't his GAA.

We didn't play a markedly more open style until Quinville took over, and it didn't have anything to do with having Fuhr.

 

[sfvega]

THIS.

Anyone who thinks Fuhr wasn't an elite goalie is a few pucks short of a bag.

And yes, that 87 CC series was the best ever. That final rush...!

He was an elite goalie in the late 90's?......Because that's what we are discussing here.

 

[sfvega]

blues are missing a goaltender

Is there really even any doubt that quality #1 goaltending is their biggest weak point?

Simple as that

So about a dozen forwards not showing up at all in the playoffs isn't the issue? That's laughable. Ask any Blues fan if Allen played better than Bouwmeester, Backes, Oshie, Goc, Jaskin, Lehtera, Stastny, Ott, Jackman, Michalek, Gunnarsson, and you could argue Berglund (even though he showed up more than recent postseasons.) Some have made excuses for Bouwmeester's play, but the fact is he was completely lackluster at both ends of the ice all series long. The last 2 years, Oshie has our 2nd most goals in the post-season. And his playoff track record is embarrassing. We can't score, our defense is wildly overrated, and maybe 3 forwards show up in any given series. This time is was Tank and Schwartz. These problems are not solved by a goalie.

It's weird that so many Blues fans want Hitch gone and Oshie traded and Backes demoted and a scoring forward. But so many non-Blues fans say tat goaltending is hands down the biggest problem. Allen was at the least as good as Miller was last year, and if we had Miller in goal I feel like less people would be saying goaltending was the main issue.

 

[Rebuilt]

So about a dozen forwards not showing up at all in the playoffs isn't the issue? That's laughable. Ask any Blues fan if Allen played better than Bouwmeester, Backes, Oshie, Goc, Jaskin, Lehtera, Stastny, Ott, Jackman, Michalek, Gunnarsson, and you could argue Berglund (even though he showed up more than recent postseasons.) Some have made excuses for Bouwmeester's play, but the fact is he was completely lackluster at both ends of the ice all series long. The last 2 years, Oshie has our 2nd most goals in the post-season. And his playoff track record is embarrassing. We can't score, our defense is wildly overrated, and maybe 3 forwards show up in any given series. This time is was Tank and Schwartz. These problems are not solved by a goalie.

It's weird that so many Blues fans want Hitch gone and Oshie traded and Backes demoted and a scoring forward. But so many non-Blues fans say tat goaltending is hands down the biggest problem. Allen was at the least as good as Miller was last year, and if we had Miller in goal I feel like less people would be saying goaltending was the main issue.

I think goaltending is a weakness but the leadership group also has to go. This means HItchcock and Backes. I would still keep Oshie.

 

[sfvega]

I think goaltending is a weakness but the leadership group also has to go. This means HItchcock and Backes. I would still keep Oshie.

It was a weakness in the deciding games of this series. But Allen is still very inexperienced. We can't make the same mistake we made with Ben Bishop by going out and trading for veteran goalies and not even knowing what we have in our own system. Hitch needs to go definitely. I think it's pretty much a consensus among the fanbase that he is the biggest issue right now. I love Oshie and Backes, but I'm not sure that a change of scenery wouldn't be best for everyone involved.

 

[BladesofSTEELwFIRE]

The Blues are fools if they bring Hitch back. The definition of insaity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Hitch's playoff record is 1-7 in his last 8 series and 12-24 in his last 36 playoff games. He needs to go!

 

[sfvega]

There's a lot of people who think he is still capable of taking a team to the promised land, but I really do think that opinion is outdated. He's on his way to being run out of town by a 3rd straight team with no one in their fanbases having a lot of good to say about his playoff success. He's still a good coach, but he can only take a team so far.

 

[BladesofSTEELwFIRE]

That's why he has to go! He's no longer effective!

Let's get REAL. His '99 team won the Cup with 3 hall of famers in Hull, Modano, and Belfour plus other great players. Any of us on this board could have coached that team to a Cup!

 

[thedustman]

The Blues are fools if they bring Hitch back. The definition of insaity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Hitch's playoff record is 1-7 in his last 8 series and 12-24 in his last 36 playoff games. He needs to go!

Babcock has a similarly poor playoff record in his past 40 or so. Who do the Blues bring in? Ted Nolan?

I think they are just missing things to plug their ears with.

 

[ChuckW]

He was an elite goalie in the late 90's?......Because that's what we are discussing here.

Thanks. I didn't know what we were discussing. Thanks for clearing that up.

Fuhr was an elite goalie in 1996.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I think goaltending is a weakness but the leadership group also has to go. This means HItchcock and Backes. I would still keep Oshie.

Oh god no. Backes is at least useful in the playoffs because of his defense. Minnesota didn't score a single even strength goal against us with him on the ice. Oshie was literally useless.

 

[Blues88]

That's why he has to go! He's no longer effective!

Let's get REAL. His '99 team won the Cup with 3 hall of famers in Hull, Modano, and Belfour plus other great players. Any of us on this board could have coached that team to a Cup!

Remind me again how many rag tag nobodies led the way to Cup glory for coaches like Bowman, Arbour, Blake, Irvin, Quenneville, Babcock, and Sutter etc. I think elite talent is a prerequisite to winning...

 

[NYR89]

They need Rick Nash

 

[The Kingslayer]

Its goaltending. Its the same issue Philly had for years.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Its goaltending.

It's more than just goaltending.

 

[The Kingslayer]

It's more than just goaltending.

It starts with goaltending...and get rid of Oshie hes useless.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Its goaltending. Its the same issue Philly had for years.

Wrong. It's top players not producing. Let's just say Steen has the most points of the old core with 14 in 31 games. Goaltending could be better but it certainly isn't the reason we are losing.

 

[Thallis]

Wrong. It's top players not producing. Let's just say Steen has the most points of the old core with 14 in 31 games. Goaltending could be better but it certainly isn't the reason we are losing.

It was a big issue this year and trying to deny that is just plugging your ears at this point.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

They're the tin man of the NHL.
No heart.

 

[STL fan in MN]

1. Lack of killer instinct/heart/swagger/confidence/whatever you want to call it. It's pretty clear to me that too many of the core players simply don't have it. They either need to somehow magically acquire it (bloody unlikely) or they need to be shipped out for players that have that win at all costs mentality.

2. Too deep at forward at the cost of elite talent. They have only 1 game-breaker, Tarasenko...and he finished last on the team in +/- against the Wild as Parise/Granlund tore him and Lehtera apart at even strength. IMO, the teams that win are a little more top heavy. The Blues have great depth but they need more stars as that's what seems to matter at crunch time in the playoffs...and those stars need to have the heart/winning mentality of point #1.

3. Questions in goal. When was the last time the Blues had a consistent goalie? Cujo? Fuhr? It's been a while. Good luck to them getting that rock of a goalie but they need someone to step up in goal and be the man. He doesn't need to be elite but at least more consistent than Elliott/Allen have been.

4. Tougher d-men. I've never seen a team that's so talented just let team after team just skate into their D zone untouched. Perhaps that's what Hitch wanted them to do but stand players up at the blue line for Christ's sake! J-Bo and Gunnarsson are cream puffs. Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk aren't exactly mean/intimidating either. The Blues focused on acquiring transitional d-men but they did so at the expense of heart/killer instinct and you really need both IMO.

5. Coaching/players rejecting the coaching. Hitch's message has clearly gotten stale and there were a few instances of players openly questioning him (Oshie on at least 2 occasions). IMO, Hitch relies too much on matchups and seems to be poor at in-game adjustments. I like Hitch but once it became clear that the Blues seriously explored hiring Babcock, I think it's deplorable that it now looks like they'll keep Hitch. Reports are that Hitch will likely be back on a one-year contract. Hitch had problems getting some of the players to play his system last season. How do the Blues expect the players to follow a guy many of them don't like that they know is on thin ice that they know the team tried to replace that's only signed to a one-year deal. That situation is inviting mutany/locker room problems but that seems to be the path the Blues likely will be taking. Stupid IMO.

6. They need a GM that has the balls to make the needed changes. Army is being too loyal IMO to Hitch. He just needs to cut the guy loose. The Blues failures aren't all on Hitch and some of the core (Oshie, etc) defintely should be traded but once they tried to replace Hitch with Babs, I find it ludicrous that Army is considering bringing Hitch back. Hitch will have no credibility in that room, even if some of the players that dislike him the most are traded away.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Wrong. It's top players not producing. Let's just say Steen has the most points of the old core with 14 in 31 games. Goaltending could be better but it certainly isn't the reason we are losing.

Goaltending has been an issue in STL for years but you can go ahead and pretend its not all you like. Yah the top players should produce sure. Maybe they are too scared to make a mistake because 1 mistake can lead to a soft ass goal.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Move out of the Central.

Then lose in the second round?

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

A better starting goalie and a system that promoted scoring goals ahead of preventing them (a better goalie would allow them to do that)

Goaltending has been an issue in STL for years but you can go ahead and pretend its not all you like. Yah the top players should produce sure. Maybe they are too scared to make a mistake because 1 mistake can lead to a soft ass goal.

That is certainly an element that exists when you're playing elimination games and don't have an established above-average starting tender, which the Blues don't have.