We've fallen and we can't get up. 18/19 MGMT thread VI.

[mathonwy]

It wasn't fair to the Sedins to rebuild...but apparently it was fair to sink to the bottom of the standings for years while spending to the cap trying to compete and failing miserably.

Yeah, ok.

Don't forget, burdening their neutral zone / transition game with trash blue liners such as Sbisa, Bartkowski, Larsen, Gudbranson, Del Zotto and Pouliot.

And then absolutely gutting their offensive game by signing Loui slow-as-eff Eriksson because Loui had chemistry with the Sedins in a non-contact tournament a few years ago and then trading away Hansen who was the only forward fast enough and good enough to be able to play the role of 3rd Sedin relentless forechecker and puck turner-over.

Not fair to the Sedins? Suck it Trev. Just because you're too stupid to realize how bad your employer is doesn't excuse you for saying BS like this. Idiot.

 

[bossram]

It wasn't fair to the Sedins to rebuild...but apparently it was fair to sink to the bottom of the standings for years while spending to the cap trying to compete and failing miserably.

Yeah, ok.

It's actually comical.

Had they went full-rebuild when Gillis wanted, the Canucks would probably have been on the upswing before the Sedins even retired.

Maybe seeing a team on the rise would have convinced them to stick around one more year too.

 

[nuck luck]

Benning was just as into trying to compete as linden so don’t leave him out of that. In addition we had a lot of different assets if not squandered that could have been used in a rebuild

Exactly. lindbenn are both to blame for this. Although I put more blame on lind for not taking Thachuk...personal issues.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

It's actually comical.

Had they went full-rebuild when Gillis wanted, the Canucks would probably have been on the upswing before the Sedins even retired.

Maybe seeing a team on the rise would have convinced them to stick around one more year too.

Completely agree..It was dead obvious to me after we were swept by SJS in 2013 that that the core group was done....So what do we do in 2013.., re-sign the Sedins up for another 4 years ...?...What rebuild..?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Completely agree..It was dead obvious to me after we were swept by SJS in 2013 that that the core group was done....So what do we do in 2013.., re-sign the Sedins up for another 4 years ...?...What rebuild..?

Finally something I can agree with you on.

 

[nuck luck]

Completely agree..It was dead obvious to me after we were swept by SJS in 2013 that that the core group was done....So what do we do in 2013.., re-sign the Sedins up for another 4 years ...?...What rebuild..?

We competely rebuild. Start from scratch and trade players when their value is still fairly high.

If Sedins want to stay, keep them for leadership reasons. Their high salaries, deserved, won't affect the team if we get rid of other contracts.

- draft bpa instead of skipping on Tkachuk because of Virt

- don't sign monster contracts at length (miller) and sign for short term and trade value.

- max use of cap space for picks

- provide ample NHL playing time for prospects and younger players to get a real idea of potential. Give the young guys real opportunities to develop here and hit potentials. Nothing more frustrating than see a young player thrive elsewhere because we never gave them a chance OR WATCHING THEIR ICETIME EATEN UP BY AGING VETS (FROM TRADES) AND MENTORSHIP REASONS.

- hire a good coach and not some rookie

- get draft picks and not prospects from other teams..especially if they are disappointments there. And a hell no if they are waiver risks.

- make good trades that improve the teams futures instead of trying to improve the next season.

- have a bloody plan to follow things through! don't go by gut feel...

- follow Toronto's path and send prospects to minors for further development. don't go forimmediate results and try to fill seats.

DON'T FIRE MG

- DON'T HIRE TWO IDIOTS WITH NO EXPERIENCE AT THEIR POSITIONS.

Just a couple thoughts off the top of my head...We could be a powerhouse now competing for the SC and have an incredible amount of depth with equal high quality prospects.

But, here we are still looking up and repeating the same mistakes each year blaming them on the same things each year.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

We competely rebuild. Start from scratch and trade players when their value is still fairly high.

If Sedins want to stay, keep them for leadership reasons. Their high salaries, deserved, won't affect the team if we get rid of other contracts.

- draft bpa instead of skipping on Tkachuk because of Virt

- don't sign monster contracts at length (miller) and sign for short term and trade value.

- max use of cap space for picks

- provide ample NHL playing time for prospects and younger players to get a real idea of potential. Give the young guys real opportunities to develop here and hit potentials. Nothing more frustrating than see a young player thrive elsewhere because we never gave them a chance.

- hire a good coach and not some rookie

- get draft picks and not prospects from other teams..especially if they are disappointments there. And a hell no if they are waiver risks.

- make good trades that improve the teams futures instead of trying to improve the next season.

- have a bloody plan to follow things through! don't go by gut feel...

- follow Toronto's path and send prospects to minors for further development. don't go forimmediate results and try to fill seats.

DON'T FIRE MG

- DON'T HIRE TWO IDIOTS WITH NO EXPERIENCE AT THEIR POSITIONS.

Just a couple thoughts off the top of my head...We could be a powerhouse now competing for the SC and have an incredible amount of depth with equal high quality prospects.

But, here we are still looking up and repeating the same mistakes each year blaming them on the same things each year.

You just don't get it...The Aqualini's did not sign the Sedins to 4 year extensions in 2013 for X Billion dollars to start a f***ing rebuild......

 

[Addison Rae]

The team clearly could have done a mini retool around the Sedins, they’re the faces of the franchise they want to stay in Vancouver, they add immense value to a team integrating younger players into the lineup.

Trading Schneider, Kesler and Edler in 2013 for future based deals and the team is likely a playoff team on the up swing right now.

Gillis clearly lost full autonomy of the team that summer and pretty much every sign points towards such.

 

[nuck luck]

You just don't get it...The Aqualini's did not sign the Sedins to 4 year extensions in 2013 for X Billion dollars to start a ****ing rebuild......

I get it...you don't. We signed them because we owed it to them for signing good contracts during the cup runs. Plus, what they did for the city and team and their leadership. We did it for loyalty and that's fine with me. No regrets.

What we didn't owe them was to tear down this house and turn it into a pig-sty. They didnt deserve these embarrassing years of utter failure trying to compete. Furthermore, I am 100% positive that they would have been behind a rebuild and wanted whats best for the city. They signed because they are rooted here with family, friends and maybe fan's respect. NOT because we said we wanted to try another run...and by the end of 2013, they would have certainly agreed to rebuild instead of embarrassing the team further

They certainly deserved better than what they got regardless if it was intentional or unintentional. At least they would've had a final chance at a run if we rebuilt like TO. And they might have signed a team friendly/cup-run friendly 1 year contract to play the 4th line. Might have had a serious chance again

 

[vanuck]

I can't help but think Benning and Linden definitively wasted the Sedins' final years here through their total and utter incompetence and ruined any chance of being competitive before they retired. Had a retool been executed probably, there's at least a chance we would be not only much younger but actually good and on the rise again by this point. Plus this may have had the added effect of convincing them to stay another year to try and win the Cup, even if they have to play on the 4th line like mentioned above.

With what we went through the past 4 years, we've had zero chance at being competitive.

For instance, even just not pissing away your top picks like we did would've given us a superior top 5 already (Tkachuk/Petterson/Nylander/Horvat-Boeser) than what we have today. To say nothing of the assets we should have gotten from trading Kesler/Hamhuis/Vrbata/Hansen/Burrows etc.

 

[TruGr1t]

I can't help but think Benning and Linden definitively wasted the Sedins' final years here through their total and utter incompetence and ruined any chance of being competitive before they retired.

This is absolutely a fact. The attempts at icing a competitive team were progressively more embarrassing failures right up until Linden was fired. It all comes back to the overwhelming theme in Vancouver: The current management/ownership do not know how to build a NHL roster.

The Sedins were certainly willful in wasting their final years, though. It was fairly evident this team was going to suck and they could have at least approached the organization about finding a creative way to get on a better team and/or Cup contender. They decided to pull a Titanic ... for better or worse.

 

[DomY]

I'm fully convinced ownership has meddled in the team since 2012 when we acquired Pahlsson for no reason.

Hopefully Aqualini will be more hands-off and focus his attention on his new eSports team, rubbing shoulders with NFL and NBA and other big-time owners.

 

[Jyrki21]

Exactly. lindbenn are both to blame for this. Although I put more blame on lind for not taking Thachuk...personal issues.

To be fair, that's just a theory that's been kicked around here. I think the real issue is that unless Benning could make an awful trade for PK Subban with his pick, he pretty much wanted Juolevi no matter what, and had been telegraphing this far enough in advance that people around here were worried about it.

 

[tantalum]

The thing that amazes me is that Gillis clearly told ownership a rebuild, or retool at the very least, was necessary. Ownership ignores it, they handcuff him and then remove him.

Ownerships hand picked coach John Tortorella on his way out tells everybody a rebuild was absolutely necessary. Ownership ignores this and hires Lindenning.

Lindenning fail to deliver the quick turnaround, mainly through incompetence. Linden sees the light and says "we got a problem..." . Ownership ignores it and goes with Benning and Weisbrod.

Until ownership either heeds the advice of experts around the globe nothing will change unless they get absolute top notch, mistake free performances from the president and GM. Hard to find those guys when you've done such a good job cultivating the poor image the organization has right now.

 

[tantalum]

To be fair, that's just a theory that's been kicked around here. I think the real issue is that unless Benning could make an awful trade for PK Subban with his pick, he pretty much wanted Juolevi no matter what, and had been telegraphing this far enough in advance that people around here were worried about it.

Yep. Benning for weeks if not months talked about grabbing a D-man in the draft. I had thought (hoped?) it would be Sergachev. It wasn't. But it was always going to be a D-man. They picked by perceived positional need instead of BPA and failed to realize that the every position was (and still is) a positional need.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm fully convinced ownership has meddled in the team since 2012 when we acquired Pahlsson for no reason.

Hopefully Aqualini will be more hands-off and focus his attention on his new eSports team, rubbing shoulders with NFL and NBA and other big-time owners.

It's funny because in 2012 there were even people on here saying all the Canucks needed was a 3C, while I was screaming for more offense. The Canucks went in the 3C direction and got curb stomped.

 

[tantalum]

I think AV made the request for the third line center.

 

[xtra]

Someone explain to me why does signing the sedins stop us from rebuilding? That’s one fallacy I don’t understand.

We have people on here talking about how beagle and rousell and sitter are needed for “leadership” and so the young guys don’t have to do everything.

Why doesn’t that apply to the sedins? Why weren’t we rebuilding and using them as leadership to be competitive?

 

[Jyrki21]

Yep. Benning for weeks if not months talked about grabbing a D-man in the draft. I had thought (hoped?) it would be Sergachev. It wasn't. But it was always going to be a D-man. They picked by perceived positional need instead of BPA and failed to realize that the every position was (and still is) a positional need.

I remember Juolevi was rumored here from the get-go, so I never had any consideration of it being anyone else (although I held out a slim hope for Tkachuk, hoping he might come to his senses and listen to others like he did the following year). Once it was established he had specifically watched Juolevi at the World Juniors (I assume for a grand total of a few minutes) you just knew tunnel vision was on and the gig was up. I gather "super-drafter" Benning evaluates prospects with the same degree of breadth and depth as little kids who start cheering for a team because they see their uniforms on TV that one time.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

The fact that Gillis, (who in my opinion should have a job as a GM as he was outstanding) didn’t get a chance to rebuild this team is absolute BS. Guy was a genius. Him and Gilman would be a massive upgrade to what we have now.

 

[timw33]

It's funny because in 2012 there were even people on here saying all the Canucks needed was a 3C, while I was screaming for more offense. The Canucks went in the 3C direction and got curb stomped.

We needed to go all in to get Jeff Carter that year.

 

[Intangibos]

The fact that Gillis had the foresight to call for a rebuild after a Presidents' Trophy season is remarkable. Sure some fans may say "this team is done", but when has a team ever started selling off everything to rebuild in the summer after a Presidents'?

That alone would make me come crawling back to Gillis from me clearly being wrong.

 

[Jyrki21]

The fact that Gillis had the foresight to call for a rebuild after a Presidents' Trophy season is remarkable. Sure some fans may say "this team is done", but when has a team ever started selling off everything to rebuild in the summer after a Presidents'?

That alone would make me come crawling back to Gillis from me clearly being wrong.

To be fair, it was the following year that he apparently approached ownership. Still with a team at the top of its division, though.

(By comparison, look at how gaga this administration went over a dead-cat bounce in 2014-15, declaring itself a 100-pointer the following year).

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I'm fully convinced ownership has meddled in the team since 2012 when we acquired Pahlsson for no reason.

Hopefully Aqualini will be more hands-off and focus his attention on his new eSports team, rubbing shoulders with NFL and NBA and other big-time owners.

I agree with your sentiment, but we acquired Pahlsson because we traded Hodgson for Kassian, no? He filled the #3 centre spot. Maybe not the best target as he was over the hill, but still.

 

[y2kcanucks]

We needed to go all in to get Jeff Carter that year.

Agreed. If Gillis did there's a good chance we make it past the Kings and probably go far again.