Post-Game Talk: We're Horrible. Except for Nylander.... And Brown | Leafs fall to Sabres

[Dayjobdave]

I think we Leaf fans are going to have to face the fact that it is going to be a very very long year, maybe even a couple of years, before there is anything really watchable happening at the ACC.

It is best not to fall in love with any of the players here now, as this is not the cast that will lead us out of this mess.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I wasn't expecting the Leafs to overhaul the team in one year, but I was expecting more than one core player to be moved out

 

[Joey Hoser]

I've heard this notion expressed frequently recently, well, the Leafs weren't going to move their failed core and play the kids in one offseason, it's not reasonable, when Babcock and company said pain, they meant it, and not just for this season.

Fwiw, watch the Marlies then, they won't bring nearly as much pain to your eyes and heart, they may even give you some hope.

I didn't expect the entire thing to turn over. I just expected more to be moved than just Kessel, and more than 0 kids in the lineup.

I don't think there is anything unreasonable about that.

I don't even think they're wrong in what they are doing. I just didn't expect this season to be completely void of anything worth watching.

 

[Leviathan899]

Gotta stop dumping on Phaneuf after a night when he was good. If he played all year the way he did last night, I'd be good with it. Moved the puck well, played good defence and threw a big hit that drew a penalty trying to wake up the brutal top two lines.

He wasnt that good in the previous games (although Hunwick didnt do him any favours) and deserves to be criticized for his play then but some around here show their agendas when they dump on him when the does well. If Phaneuf had played as poorly as Rielly did last night, there would be an online petition to trade him, I swear.

The vets on the top lines should be the focus of any rage around here and talking about Phaneuf in a negative light based on his play last night is a waste of time.

I agree with you that it is lazy and unfair to always point the finger at Dion, but I wouldn't say he was anything close to "good" last night. Average maybe? He was exposed many times last night by guys driving wide, he takes terrible routes to retrieve pucks and routinely just allows guys to win races to pucks, which leads to pressure in our zone. Gardiner is the same way, they just allow the opposing forward to get on loose pucks first, and then it's full out defend mode. Doesn't help our D half the time just ring the puck around the boards which makes the wingers job a mess.

Dion is okay at moving the puck when he has no pressure on him, but that rarely happens. He has no foot speed, is a below average skater and he thinks the game at the same pace most of the time. I'll admit last night he wasn't his worst, but I would have a tough time saying he was good.

Rielly wasn't any good last night either though, you're right. He blinds the fans who don't watch the game very deeply with the odd nice rush up the ice and his escapability, but he makes bad decisions with the puck in transition and he doesn't defend very well. He got made a fool by Evan Rodrigues last night, who played college hockey last year. And some think Rielly is a number 1 D man. Just goes to show you many people only really see what they want to see and have pre conceived notions on players that they can't break, no matter how poorly they play.

People need to stop claiming players play "good" when they create a few scoring chances and make a flashy play that sticks out, but then turn the puck over 10-15 times, are soft on the puck. That is not a good game, it is just a player having a few good moments but an overall ineffective game. I've seen people say Rielly was good last night because he skated the puck up ice a few times. Like come on, the expectations need to be higher. Not saying Rielly isn't a good and promising defender, but he isn't a god and has a lot of room to improve. Same with Gardiner.

 

[p.l.f.]

Maybe they're just saving it for the season opener

 

[dballislife2]

if im going to sit through all this pain and suffering, i rather sit through it with my youngs guns...whats the point of sitting through hell with a bunch of old mediocre 1 year vets

now if my young guns arent and dont look ready, well fine, i will tough it out with the old guys...but they look like they deserve a chance to me

 

[Gabriel426]

We can't jump on every little mistakes the players make and claim, he sucks....Toews, Weber, Subban, Sid and Ovie still make mistakes in every game in our eyes. Heck, even Dougie, Wendal and Mats made them too. Sometime those mistakes are the players own doing but other times they are forced by the opposing players.
The thing is, the team as a whole must help each other and bail each other out. That's something I have not seen from the current Leafs. That's also one of the biggest reasons why I think Nylander and Brown should be in Marlies instead of the Leafs.
Hopefully, Babcock can fix that and it will take times.

 

[Menzinger]

if im going to sit through all this pain and suffering, i rather sit through it with my youngs guns...whats the point of sitting through hell with a bunch of old mediocre 1 year vets

now if my young guns arent and dont look ready, well fine, i will tough it out with the old guys...but they look like they deserve a chance to me

To save the young guns from having to deal with this humiliation. They can all have a winning season together with the Marlies - better for their development.

 

[dballislife2]

lol if a player is ready for the nhl, u dont let words like humiliation and losing team, stop them from making the league...come on guys

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I didn't expect the entire thing to turn over. I just expected more to be moved than just Kessel, and more than 0 kids in the lineup.

I don't think there is anything unreasonable about that.

I don't even think they're wrong in what they are doing. I just didn't expect this season to be completely void of anything worth watching.

Don't forget that all of Santorelli, Franson, Clarkson and Winnik were also moved at the deadline.

This rebuild was never going to happen overnight.

A lot of youngsters will be up with the big club as the year goes on and the pending UFAs get dealt out. All of the youngsters including Nylander can benefit to start in the AHL to start the year.

We need to do what's best for the youngsters and not rush them before they're ready which only drags out the rebuilding process even longer (witness Oilers + Blue Jackets in the last decade or I'd argue how the Leafs ruined Schenn).

The thing with a rebuild people forget is that after drafting a player it usually takes around 5 years for that player to start making a decent impact.

 

[Gary Nylund]

lol if a player is ready for the nhl, u dont let words like humiliation and losing team, stop them from making the league...come on guys

It's worth considering IMO. The goal isn't to have these guys "make the league", it's to win with these guys down the road. It's quite possible (perhaps likely even) that a year with the Marlies in a healthy environment will have a more positive result than spending a year being shell-shocked with the Leafs.

Whatever Babcock decides is fine with me but I can see the logic in not rushing the few elite assets we have.

 

[cookie]

Ever since Dion's first full season as a Toronto Maple Leaf, the team has been the second worst defensive team just behind Edmonton. Is it Phaneuf, the carousel of players, coaches, goalies, or is it something else that sees the Leafs allow a total of 1141 goals against? Unsurprisingly, we've been the worst in the league in second period goals (long change), and second- and tied for third-worst in GA in the first and third periods. During that time, our middle-of-the-pack scoring has catapulted our draft position from dead last to that annoying out of the playoffs zone. It could be that our team, during that stretch, had below average players trying to win (and failing to do so) by out-gunning their opponents.

How much of it is on the coach? The players? Or is it something else?

 

[Gabriel426]

lol if a player is ready for the nhl, u dont let words like humiliation and losing team, stop them from making the league...come on guys

Maybe on another team but not the current Leafs. As they don't play like a team and seems to only covering for themselves instead of each other. Once that changes, then that's the time when Nylander and others can come in and play even if they lose every game.

 

[mallory67]

I wasn't expecting the Leafs to overhaul the team in one year, but I was expecting more than one core player to be moved out

One core player. But they also got rid of Clarkson! Which is incredible.

Bozak, Lupul etc. are all tradable at least ... so they will move somewhere ... but man that Clarkson deal was the dogs bollocks.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Ever since Dion's first full season as a Toronto Maple Leaf, the team has been the second worst defensive team just behind Edmonton. Is it Phaneuf, the carousel of players, coaches, goalies, or is it something else that sees the Leafs allow a total of 1141 goals against? Unsurprisingly, we've been the worst in the league in second period goals (long change), and second- and tied for third-worst in GA in the first and third periods. During that time, our middle-of-the-pack scoring has catapulted our draft position from dead last to that annoying out of the playoffs zone. It could be that our team, during that stretch, had below average players trying to win (and failing to do so) by out-gunning their opponents.

How much of it is on the coach? The players? Or is it something else?

Arguably worse group of centers, terrible top 4 D and average goaltending.

We just haven't had much to work with. Fans and management fooled themselves about what we really were after the lockout season where our run n gun system didn't get as exposed, we had the 2nd best combined special teams in the entire league and we benefited greatly from career years out of guys who'd been playing in the AHL (Kadri, Fraser, Kostka).

 

[HellasLEAF]

If they keep Nylander down (and possibly Brown) it will be the first case of keeping a player until they are 'over-ready' or 'over done'.

They have talked of doing this with out youth let's see if it's put into practice.

 

[leafs in five]

I think we Leaf fans are going to have to face the fact that it is going to be a very very long year, maybe even a couple of years, before there is anything really watchable happening at the ACC.

It is best not to fall in love with any of the players here now, as this is not the cast that will lead us out of this mess.

this will be the next in a long line of very long years watching crummy teams.

at least this one is like intentionally so. or consciously so, i guess.

 

[TLeafsFan]

LOL, I see that the very vocal Bozak loving, Kadri hating crowd was out in full force again.

PK ice time aside Bozak and JVR were broken up in the third. Bozak failed to register a single shot all game. Sucked on the draw, too. Kadri had a near miss on a wraparound attempt and out with Nylander on the late third 4 on 4 and the two nearly converted.

Bozak was downright painful to watch.

 

[Gabriel426]

By next year, if he Leafs ends up with Auston, we would be thanking Bozak for being our #1C in 2015-16

 

[hfdshdh]

I wasn't expecting the Leafs to overhaul the team in one year, but I was expecting more than one core player to be moved out

They reportedly tried to move Bozak, but there wasn't any market for him. I've heard similar rumours regarding Lupul and Phaneuf.

Ever since Dion's first full season as a Toronto Maple Leaf, the team has been the second worst defensive team just behind Edmonton. Is it Phaneuf, the carousel of players, coaches, goalies, or is it something else that sees the Leafs allow a total of 1141 goals against? Unsurprisingly, we've been the worst in the league in second period goals (long change), and second- and tied for third-worst in GA in the first and third periods. During that time, our middle-of-the-pack scoring has catapulted our draft position from dead last to that annoying out of the playoffs zone. It could be that our team, during that stretch, had below average players trying to win (and failing to do so) by out-gunning their opponents.

How much of it is on the coach? The players? Or is it something else?

'The Carlyle effect' didn't help, but our depth at center and on defense has been bottom of the barrel for a few years now. For all the excuses made for Kessel having to play with Bozak, Phaneuf hasn't had it any better being paired with Holzer, Kostka, Aulie, etc.

 

[kihei]

So this looks like it's going to be the sort of year everybody expected, right? More good draft picks is all that means. So what's the problem?

 

[Warden of the North]

I think we can close this up