Post-Game Talk: Welcome to the Leafs Killers Club Aleksander Barkov Jr. | Leafs Lose 4-3 in OT

[dangomon]

I sense a major lack of accountability on this team. There is no internal competition for jobs, seems like no matter what a player won't be moved up or down in the lineup. Two years ago, the rookies were thriving off the challenge of proving themselves. Last year we had Johnsson and Kap pushing our depth players to play better or be taken out. This year, the 4th line is the 4th line, Kadri gets whatever spares don't work with 91 or 34, and the rest is set in stone.

PS. this isn't a 'PUT BROWN ON THE 4th LINE' message. Just a general team/organizational observation.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yup lots of concerns. The good thing is that there is time until the start of the playoffs to address them (God help if Dubas stands pat or trades for another turtleneck) and the cream always rises to the top.

Some don't like McQuaid but I think he can help and will come very cheap.

McQuaid is such an insignificant add it's not a solution at all. he wouldn't even crack our healthy defense corps

 

[Mr Hockey]

Definitely. This team's on the highway to another first round loss, can see it coming from a mile away.

sure buddy lol

 

[thewave]

Because they're pretty bad

Apparently now we must use excuses to conceal the new problem...

 

[Mr Hockey]

I sense a major lack of accountability on this team. There is no internal competition for jobs, seems like no matter what a player won't be moved up or down in the lineup. Two years ago, the rookies were thriving off the challenge of proving themselves. Last year we had Johnsson and Kap pushing our depth players to play better or be taken out. This year, the 4th line is the 4th line, Kadri gets whatever spares don't work with 91 or 34, and the rest is set in stone.

PS. this isn't a 'PUT BROWN ON THE 4th LINE' message. Just a general team/organizational observation.

I'm curious, who should be held accountable and moved back in the lineup?

 

[dangomon]

I'm curious, who should be held accountable and moved back in the lineup?

I don't have an answer to that question, because beyond our top 12 forwards I don't think we have any options. Just seems like there is no need to put forth that extra effort.

 

[Sniper99]

The issue isn’t Leivo. It’s the competency of the current management and coaching staff. It seems that any player on the wrong side of Babs is at risk of being dumped.

At this point if I were Matthews I’d sign that offer sheet next July.

and thank Christ you're not Matthews. Jesus

 

[sxvnert]

You almost gotta wonder if his Dad is paying people under the table with the stipulation that Hyman only plays with the best players. I'm not saying this is the case... but at least it would be some sort of rational explanation. The likely reason is that Babcock is just a stubborn idiot. If he moves Hyman down to the 4th line and we end up being much better, it will prove all his detractors right. It would mean that he's been making a mistake for years.

Na its much simpler than that. The leafs stars refuse to get their jerseys wet most of the time so Hyman & Brown (and all grinders before) spread throughout the lines to add that missing element. When Dubas gets his head of out his ass and makes a deal or two to bring in legit top six talent with size then we'll see the grinders pushed down to the third and fourth lines. The bigger issue is the stars losing 50/50 battles.

How the lineup should look heading into next season:

(LW) Matthews Nylander
Grundström Tavares Marner
Hyman Kadri Kapanen
Johnsson Lindholm Marchment/Engvall/Moore

Tampa Bay manages without size throughout their forward group but they loaded up on larger D. Which is also something toronto needs to do this summer.

 

[Sniper99]

Are you kidding me that the Leafs are confident playing Freddie so much that he's tiring in December already and should a major injury strikes him, that management will go with Sparks?!

Aside from trading for a high end right handed shooting defenseman, they must trade for or sign a free agent veteran backup goalie like Steve Mason.

You must not be in this thread a lot. When we dont start Andersen people ***** that we should have started him over Sparks. You cant have it both ways.

 

[Sniper99]

Front runner candidate Joel Quenneville, then Alain Vigneault, Mike Keenan.

Quennville will be long gone by the time we need to look at replacing Babcock. Vigneault too.

Keenan? LOL good Christ, just stop.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I don't have an answer to that question, because beyond our top 12 forwards I don't think we have any options. Just seems like there is no need to put forth that extra effort.

internal battles are, who can move up and play with the Tavares or Matthews lines, who can get on the PP, 4th line guy steal a top 9 spot. Babcock teams are always one of the top hardest working teams, that's his thing because he can control that, IMO

 

[Nineteen67]

As a Leafs fan, I couldn't care less how exciting that game is or isn't. I want Matthews here. Period. Toronto is a huge market, too, by the way.

Well, it was a great finish....will be better next year.....

 

[ShaneFalco]

What do you expect from our 4th line or any 4th line, goal scoring?

Identity and hit people
For so long I've been told there are no 4th lines anymore

 

[Suntouchable13]

Well, it was a great finish....will be better next year.....

No, it won't. Stop. Matthews will be here for the next 8 years, at least. Just like people fantasized that McDavid would sign a Toronto offersheet. It just won't happen.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I sense a major lack of accountability on this team. There is no internal competition for jobs, seems like no matter what a player won't be moved up or down in the lineup. Two years ago, the rookies were thriving off the challenge of proving themselves. Last year we had Johnsson and Kap pushing our depth players to play better or be taken out. This year, the 4th line is the 4th line, Kadri gets whatever spares don't work with 91 or 34, and the rest is set in stone.

PS. this isn't a 'PUT BROWN ON THE 4th LINE' message. Just a general team/organizational observation.

I see it too and only the Tavares line is performing. Next step is to limit the middle six minutes for those who aren't performing as expected.

Hyman Tavares Marner 19 min
Johnsson _____ Kapanen 19 min
Marleau _____ Nylander 14 min
Ennis Gauthier Brown 8 min
Lindholm

Switch up Matthews Kadri until something clicks.

 

[bansheebeat]

I'm as upset as anyone that we lost Leivo. But Lindholm and Ennis have been completely fine this season.
Ennis-Lindholm-Brown have barely played 2 games with each other all year. Can we wait at least 10 games for that line to gel a bit before we start giving up all hope completely?

 

[Mr Hockey]

Identity and hit people
For so long I've been told there are no 4th lines anymore

I think the Leafs want more of a faster skilled 4th line this season, they want to play fast hockey. Matt Martin would have come in handy though

 

[ToneDog]

McQuaid is such an insignificant add it's not a solution at all. he wouldn't even crack our healthy defense corps

Don't be so sure. Our RHD sucks and has no grit. Yeah McQuaid is not top 4 but most posters can't handle the cost of a top 4 dman.

 

[ToneDog]

Na its much simpler than that. The leafs stars refuse to get their jerseys wet most of the time so Hyman & Brown (and all grinders before) spread throughout the lines to add that missing element. When Dubas gets his head of out his ass and makes a deal or two to bring in legit top six talent with size then we'll see the grinders pushed down to the third and fourth lines. The bigger issue is the stars losing 50/50 battles.

How the lineup should look heading into next season:

(LW) Matthews Nylander
Grundström Tavares Marner
Hyman Kadri Kapanen
Johnsson Lindholm Marchment/Engvall/Moore

Tampa Bay manages without size throughout their forward group but they loaded up on larger D. Which is also something toronto needs to do this summer.

Surprised to see that their (2) biggest forwards are 6'1". It will be interesting to see how they do tonight against a heavier Winnipeg Jets team.

 

[darrylsittler27]

The problem is 98 percent of teams go through these funks every year at some point. They may be banged up or tired of engaging in puck battles. The problem is when Dubas goes looking for what we need the name Kapanen comes up. Johnsson doesn't have a lot of value and neither does Zaitsev. Teams will want Kapanen, Gardiner and may look at Bracco. I don't think our first rounder comes into play until TD.

I'm truly surprised how little we got for Leivo.

 

[thewave]

Identity and hit people
For so long I've been told there are no 4th lines anymore

I just find it amazing that the team has so many ELITE people on staff, and nobody but people on HFBoards as well as some other media outlets could identify that Leivo was the primary driver of possession on the 4th line. It's laughable really and if indeed this was Babcocks doing, I hope that Dubas uses this failure to take roster control from Babcock and implement his vision. Let Leivo be the sacrifice made to enable real change.

 

[frizzer1]

Kapanen is an emerging star.....22 years old and still developing.
His speed alone makes him an elite penalty killer.
Trading someone like that would be a huge risk.,and if you do it,you had better get back an emerging star defenceman.

 

[Nineteen67]

Leivo now has 3 goals, 1 assist, 4 points, in 6 games and is a +7.

Good thing we traded him away for no reason. Couldn't we have just waved Marincin, Holl, Par Lindholm, etc. ? That's why this move made so little sense.

My only explanation for what happened is that when Nylander came back, Babcock said he was benching Leivo. Dubas promised Leivo that he wouldn't let him sit on the bench all year again, so he traded him to keep his word. That's the only somewhat rational explanation.

The most likely explanation is that Babcock and Dubas are idiots. I would really like to hear their logic behind this move. Leivo was clearly better than several guys we have playing for us right now. He was cheap. It's really hard to make sense of it all. Maybe Babcock and Dubas truly saw him as a career AHL player like some posters on here seem to think. But I seriously have to question these peoples' judgement when they make these kind of decisions. Leivo looked great on that 4th line all year. That 4th line with Leivo and Goat looked better than our 3rd line in a lot of games.

I was always a big Dubas defender... but this Leivo trade has made me seriously doubt him. I was starting to have my doubts when he let McBackup go... but there is no rational explanation for the Leivo debacle. Was it a locker room problem or something? Maybe Leivo didn't get along with someone on the team? I have no idea. Just doesn't sit right with me.

I've been patient with Dubas in terms of upgrading our defense... but if we go into the playoffs with our current group of D (including Hainsey on the top pair)... and we lose in the first round again... then I've had it. I'll be done with Dubas and Shanny after that. I've been done with Babcock for a long time now. Dubas needs to grow a pair and fire Babcock mid-season so we don't waste this year's cup run. This season is our best chance at a cup because we have Matthews and Marner both making practically nothing. Everything was set up this year for a true cup run... but Babcock and Dubas are screwing it all up. There is still time to fix it... but this team better look a heck of a lot better after the deadline.

Someone in the media said the trade was because they promised Leivo they would trade him rather than making him sit in the press box.
I’m with you, why in the world would Leivo be considered the odd man out when Willy came back?

 

[IPS]

Kapanen is an emerging star.....22 years old and still developing.
His speed alone makes him an elite penalty killer.
Trading someone like that would be a huge risk.,and if you do it,you had better get back an emerging star defenceman.

When our cap situation arrives and push comes to shove - as far as wingers go - we got 4 names.

Brown, Hyman, Kapanen, Johnsson

2 of these guys likely need to go. Now to anyone with half a brain, it's so f***ing obvious which 2 need to go. But if Babcock has any say in the matter, it's going to needlessly complicate things. Leivo would have been in this group but he's been removed in stunningly quick fashion. I just wonder how much this fanbase will freak out when we lose Kapanen and Johnsson in favor of the gud pros.

 

[LeafShark]

No penalty. No hearing. No suspension. Confirmed favoratism. Confirmed rigged.