Friedman: Weber could be traded to a team looking to hit the salary floor

[Suntouchable13]

How come nobody is complaining about closing this kind of loophole? Salary cap floor is there so that cheapo owners don't run on like 20M payrolls. What's the purpose of the floor if teams can just trade for these contracts that will never actually play?

 

[Doc5]

How come nobody is complaining about closing this kind of loophole? Salary cap floor is there so that cheapo owners don't run on like 20M payrolls. What's the purpose of the floor if teams can just trade for these contracts that will never actually play?

Agreed. I doubt the NHL does anything though, I think the "Tampa Bay" loop hole is a bigger offence than this one. The former helps you win the cup, the latter teams aren't trying to win cups by doing this move.

 

[HABitual Fan]

How come nobody is complaining about closing this kind of loophole? Salary cap floor is there so that cheapo owners don't run on like 20M payrolls. What's the purpose of the floor if teams can just trade for these contracts that will never actually play?

Nobody cares as long as the total reaches the correct amount, and the 50-50 split is maintained.

 

[PuckNorris]

You'd think the NHLPA would be all over this. It's basically taking money out of the players pockets.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Nobody cares as long as the total reaches the correct amount, and the 50-50 split is maintained.

I guess so, but this is total bullshit still.

 

[Whalers Fan]

no, the league changed it so the penalty can not surpass his cap hit of 7.8 I believe.

Not true. The cap recapture still has to be "re-paid" in full, but now it is spread over several years, as the recapture cannot be more than the player's cap hit in any one season. So a $24M recapture penalty for Weber would hit Nashville's cap over 3+ years. In the past, the recapture hit the salary cap all at once.

 

[HABitual Fan]

You'd think the NHLPA would be all over this. It's basically taking money out of the players pockets.

Just the opposite actually, it allows players to continue to be paid their full salaries on a new team, and free up caproom for other teams to spend on more players

 

[Captain97]

That’s crap circumvention, you can’t offer a player any real money or huge compensation to retire.

For any cap related stuff, if you guys are looking for a knowledgeable person on Twitter this guy @MtlfanSakic is a wizard.

Thought your proposition was really clever and asked him. Not sure how they could determine that he was “paid” to retire though.

Luongo did this though. He retired and got hired by Florida very shortly after.

 

[Habs Halifax]

How come nobody is complaining about closing this kind of loophole? Salary cap floor is there so that cheapo owners don't run on like 20M payrolls. What's the purpose of the floor if teams can just trade for these contracts that will never actually play?

They don't really care as long as the 50/50 revenue split is maintained and escrow don't get too high. Rules are rules but you got to allow for some way to manage within them.

Weber's contract basically helps all other players cause he lowers the escrow. But when he was making $14M, he hurt the escrow. This is not really a loophole but it is a contract that is illegal if you tried to sign it today. Largest salary year can't be more than twice the lowest salary year. So they did basically close the loophole but there are still some cap circumventing contracts still around.

Crosby's might be the last one but he is signed till 37 (not 40). He likely plays that out on the ice. Weber might be the last one with the $1M salary years tagged on the back end?

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Who says? Was Eichel activated by Vegas when they traded for him? Clarkson wasn't activated by the Leafs when they traded for him. He spent every day of the season on LTIR, along with Horton, 2 years ago. Kucherov spent the entire year on LTIR last year.

Eichel was on regular IR, not LTIR.

 

[GAGLine]

Eichel was on regular IR, not LTIR.

According to CapFriendly, he was on IR in Buffalo, but not in Vegas:

 

[MarkusKetterer]

According to CapFriendly, he was on IR in Buffalo, but not in Vegas:

View attachment 514058

View attachment 514057

I know. I’m talking about while with the Sabres.

Then again they also needed that IR to hit the cap floor

 

[GAGLine]

I know. I’m talking about while with the Sabres.

Then again they also needed that IR to hit the cap floor

No, they didn't. Eichel counted against Buffalo's cap whether he was on IR or LTIR.

 

[mouser]

If that is the case, or if Montreal just doesn't want to deal with LTIR, then is there not another option ?

Weber gets paid $3M next season, and then $1M for the following 3 years. After next season Montreal offers Weber a coaching job for 3 years at $1.2M a year. So if Weber wants to coach, he retires from hockey, makes a bit more as a coach than he actually gets as a player, and Montreal is off the hook the rest of the contract.

I have no idea if this is legal and within the CBA rules, but it seems reasonable for the player if he wants to be active in hockey as best he can, to be a coach and retire as a player.

Montreal can offer Weber a coaching/management position, however the compensation has to be in line with the going rate for that position on the team and around the league. They can't simply "overpay" Weber to entice him to retire--that would be circumvention.

 

[mouser]

Yes, the other part is ELC performance bonuses do get automatically deferred to the next season's cap. But that part is not a major problem. Cap friendly shows potential performance bonuses for the Habs next year at $850k. It's only usually a problem when you have a star on your hands and is on his ELC.

The report that the Habs have plans to be active in UFA this summer has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's possible they trade Petry for futures or a smaller contract and then try to make a move on Letang but lets face it. What top UFA's are going to sign with the Habs and are they really going to spend to the max cap? I very much doubt that

Montreal is likely going to have a very high draft pick this year. Wouldn't be surprised if that player is on the roster next season with the maximum allowed $3.5m in performance bonus clauses.

 

[mouser]

To trade a player on LTIR, he first must be activated. Im asking a general question, that only starts their daily cap hit not that their entire season cap hit / previous hit on LTIR has to be compliant.

Montreal has 6.9 million of unused LTIR hit. But activate Weber's 7.8 million and they are none cap compliant by 900k. Point being that they could send down / waive someone with a 900k+ contract and be okay or would they be okay because once Weber comes off LTIR only his 39k daily cap hit count and Montreal wouldnt have to make any subsequent moves?

Same scenario for Gardiner or any other team who is on LTIR. It would be a little bit tougher for Carolina as they have used up 2.3 million of Gardiner's LTIR.

LTIR players do not have to be activated before being traded. They do not however arrive on LTIR with the new team. Meaning any team trading for a injured player must have the available cap space open, even if they're going to later place the player on LTIR.

 

[mouser]

I'm not sure how that works. It might be a insurance decision you have to make at the time of signing the contract. Otherwise, why wouldn't the Blue Jackets just decide to insure Horton after he got hurt? Maybe insurance don't allow you to cause he got hurt after and you didn't have insurance? If that part is true, it would apply to Weber as well.

My gut tells me the insurance decision is made when the contract is signed. @mouser ?

Teams can add or remove insurance at any time under the current plan. There may have been a different plan in effect when Horton was signed/injured. Obviously you can't add insurance on an injured player. The policies have vesting periods and exclude pre-existing injuries.

I am skeptical that insurance is covering Weber if for the only reason that there wasn't a specific injury identified when Weber went to LTIR, plus he didn't spend a single day on IR during 2020-21, and only 14 days in 2019-20. Again, I have yet to see any media confirmation that insurance is covering Weber. Would love to see a link if anyone is aware of one.

It's when the contract is signed, but there is a chance they didn't insure the whole length of the deal.

It used to be at the start of each season. My understanding is teams can now make changes mid-season.

 

[mouser]

How come nobody is complaining about closing this kind of loophole? Salary cap floor is there so that cheapo owners don't run on like 20M payrolls. What's the purpose of the floor if teams can just trade for these contracts that will never actually play?

I believe there have been only two times in NHL history where a team has used injured players to reach the cap floor. Ottawa a few seasons ago and Buffalo this year.

So historically it hasn't been a widely exploited enough thing for the league to get worried over.

 

[mouser]

You'd think the NHLPA would be all over this. It's basically taking money out of the players pockets.

The players get 50% of HRR regardless of how many LTIR contracts there are.

If anything LTIR has been hurting player paychecks because it inflates the total player payroll and thus increases Escrow.

 

[CDN24]

Teams can add or remove insurance at any time under the current plan. There may have been a different plan in effect when Horton was signed/injured. Obviously you can't add insurance on an injured player. The policies have vesting periods and exclude pre-existing injuries.

I am skeptical that insurance is covering Weber if for the only reason that there wasn't a specific injury identified when Weber went to LTIR, plus he didn't spend a single day on IR during 2020-21, and only 14 days in 2019-20. Again, I have yet to see any media confirmation that insurance is covering Weber. Would love to see a link if anyone is aware of one.



It used to be at the start of each season. My understanding is teams can now make changes mid-season.

While he didn't go on IR last year he missed 8 games at end of the year with the hand injury (and probably everything else too) Last year was kind of unique with the taxi squads teams did not need the roster spot so not many guys went on IR unless it was going to be LTIR with a cap savings.

Thanks foe all the insurance insights- very informative.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Montreal is likely going to have a very high draft pick this year. Wouldn't be surprised if that player is on the roster next season with the maximum allowed $3.5m in performance bonus clauses.

Yes but does he achieve those performance bonuses? Did Dahlin, Hughes, Lafreniere get them? Not sure, you tell me.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Teams can add or remove insurance at any time under the current plan. There may have been a different plan in effect when Horton was signed/injured. Obviously you can't add insurance on an injured player. The policies have vesting periods and exclude pre-existing injuries.

I am skeptical that insurance is covering Weber if for the only reason that there wasn't a specific injury identified when Weber went to LTIR, plus he didn't spend a single day on IR during 2020-21, and only 14 days in 2019-20. Again, I have yet to see any media confirmation that insurance is covering Weber. Would love to see a link if anyone is aware of one.

It used to be at the start of each season. My understanding is teams can now make changes mid-season.

Thanks for this. Personally, I have not seen any information on if his contract is insured or not. I think you might be right and it's not insured

 

[JKG33]

I foresee a scenario happening where Weber is moved to Arizona, and some conditions are changed on the Habs 1st round pick that is owed to Arizona

 

[TheFamousFart]

So, if he indeed is getting traded and likely to Arizona, what about:

Montreal gets:
Chychrun

Arizona gets:
Weber
2022 MTL 1st unprotected

 

[Mrfenn92]

So, if he indeed is getting traded and likely to Arizona, what about:

Montreal gets:
Chychrun

Arizona gets:
Weber
2022 MTL 1st unprotected

Montreal says no