Post-Game Talk: We suck - Leafs lose 4-1

[Throw More Waffles]

When Shanny decided to let Lou go, how many GMs would have salivated over the opportunity of starting out with Matthews Marner Nylander and Rielly and shit ton of cap space?

It was almost impossible to screw it up

I'm only half joking when I say this...

But I actually think there is a legitimate case to be made that Dubas intentionally sabotaged this team. It's gone that badly.

 

[myleafs]

Does effort = confidence, because I feel like that is the bigger issue.

They don't seem sure of themselves at all right now. Taking way too much time to think and then things go right past them.

I don't think effort has ever really been an issue with this team since Keefe has taken over. If anything, effort becomes more of an issue when they are playing well and get a little bit cocky.

But I know what it is like when you are giving 100% but you just mentally are not in it, and it doesn't really matter. You overthink things, and while you are working hard, you just lose the edge to be able get it done.

However, it is something the Leafs will need to get over if they want to win in the playoffs, and getting over it right now is a good test if they are capable of doing that. If not, and they are completely mentally broken, then changes the core are really the only choice at that point.

I think a big problem is that some of the players and coach and gm all think they are playing pretty well going back to last yrs playoffs. The canes were leaps and bounds better than the leafs in almost every aspect, looking like a well oiled machine compared to the leafs and yet Matthews and Keefe somehow saw the game as pretty good overall. If you cant recognize the problem then you wont have a solution. Like Marner...Im good, we had our chances, wont change anything.

 

[egd27]

How could one understand something that cannot be articulated? Is it a feeling? Is it ethereal? Does it take a great architect to build it, and what does it say about said architect when this creation collapses the moment he leaves?

Plenty of good writings on the topic if you're actually interested.

 

[Havoc]

When Shanny decided to let Lou go, how many GMs would have salivated over the opportunity of starting out with Matthews Marner Nylander and Rielly and shit ton of cap space?

It was almost impossible to screw it up

This isn't relevant at the moment. The players you listed are playing like ass minus Nylander. Not sure how a different suit watching from above gets better results from their current play.

 

[egd27]

The problem is when you think "good" versus "garbage".

Lou wasn't garbage. I just can't find it in myself to praise him when he had the best team and didn't do much with it after acquiring Andersen.

Lou had all of Burkes gems. Then he had Matthews Marner Nylander on ELC and then Hyman @ 2.25.

A part of you doesn't pain over the "what if" ? 11 mil in salaries + 2nd rounders traded for marginal impacts. Imagine the D upgrades we could have done with that instead. Lou was sitting on a gold mine with that stacked team and then leaves with us handicapped with that Marleau and Zaitsev contract instead and no playoff wins.

Then Dubas F's it all up even more with 11 mil for Marner lol

So what were you're expectations in the first 2 years of a team that has started it's building with 7 rookies in the line up?

BTW......the impact of the Marleau contract is the most overblown red herring to ever grace these boards.

 

[ACC1224]

So what were you're expectations in the first 2 years of a team that has started with building with 7 rookies in the line up?

BTW......the impact of the Marleau contract is the most overblown red herring to ever grace these boards.

That 100%.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

It’s obvious you don’t watch much NBA. Scottie himself says his game is comparable to Magic Johnson which it is, and his style is somewhat of a hybrid between Giannis-Kawhi-Magic.

He went 4th overall in possibly the most stacked draft in decades, not unrealistic at all to say that Scottie is our new Kawhi of the future. He’s already better than Kawhi was at the same age.

Don’t try to bring your miserable Leafs outlook and mix it in with the Raptors, the Raptors are everything the Leafs should aspire to be.

You seem to think it's a sure thing....why don't you put your money where your mouth is -we can do it for an agreed upon donation to charity.

I'll take Leafs winning a round before the Raps win another title.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Dubas cleared out Kessel. If Kessel played some more games here you have to assume Matthews is bye-bye.

Lous job was easy. All he had to do was clear out Phaneuf. All the talent that carried the team to the playoffs (Matthews Marner Nylander and Hyman) was given to him.

You left out the one thing that made Lou worth having lol. We wouldn't have made the playoffs with Andersen. The assets to acquire Andersen were accumulated through prior trades. Some savvy work there.

The only downfall is one of the picks we traded turned out to be Max Comtois.


Andersen and clearing Phaneuf A+++. The rest isn't anything to really praise when you look into it further.


edit- should obviously say without Andersen

edit2- I forgot to shout out Burke for Kadri, Rielly, Bozak and JVR

The 2nd round pick we traded that ended up being Max Comtois was the pick David Nonis traded in the 2013-14 season for Peter Holland. An absolutely pathetic trade.

 

[Nineteen67]

This isn't relevant at the moment. The players you listed are playing like ass minus Nylander. Not sure how a different suit watching from above gets better results from their current play.

I do. If the team was managed properly there would be a much better chance at success.

 

[Havoc]

So what were you're expectations in the first 2 years of a team that has started it's building with 7 rookies in the line up?

BTW......the impact of the Marleau contract is the most overblown red herring to ever grace these boards.

I wasn't expecting a cup in year 1. Not sure how that bumps up Lou. Going to end up going in circles if keep re stating the full path of how that team was assembled. It goes beyond Lou and he doesn't deserve to be singled out for it. That's all I'm saying. I'm even being more than fair making sure I point out the moves he did for us that were crucial.

And it's not about being over blown. It's a simple objective statement that 11 mil was given towards Marleau and Zaitsev and picks were allowed to be traded as well. Correct yes?? That's a very poor use of what Lou was handed especially since we have hindsight to confirm it. I'm not sure how anyone can be content with those moves. The assets from Burke era (having all) + the elite ELC squad had an expiration date ending during Lous tenure. Therefore no, Lou doesn't get a grade worth speaking about here.

 

[egd27]

I wasn't expecting a cup in year 1. Not sure how that bumps up Lou. Going to end up going in circles if keep re stating the full path of how that team was assembled. It goes beyond Lou and he doesn't deserve to be singled out for it. That's all I'm saying. I'm even being more than fair making sure I point out the moves he did for us that were crucial.

And it's not about being over blown. It's a simple objective statement that 11 mil was given towards Marleau and Zaitsev and picks were allowed to be traded as well. Correct yes?? That's a very poor use of what Lou was handed especially since we have hindsight to confirm it. I'm not sure how anyone can be content with those moves. The assets from Burke era (having all) + the elite ELC squad had an expiration date ending during Lous tenure. Therefore no, Lou doesn't get a grade worth speaking about here.

Why couldn't they ride out the last year of the Marleau contract?
Why couldn't they hold Zaitsev a little longer (maybe a year or two) until someone needed a RHD?

What was the urgency for both of those moves?

 

[Havoc]

Why couldn't they ride out the last year of the Marleau contract?
Why couldn't they hold Zaitsev a little longer (maybe a year or two) until someone needed a RHD?

What was the urgency for both of those moves?

What Leafs did with the contracts after is outside of the scope of the discussion.

I'm not giving Dubas a passing grade either.

There were many possibilities Lou could have done. Marleau and Zaitsev + trades with picks is one of those many options. I'll meet you halfway and say that he doesn't deserve to be bashed for it but at the same time I'm not going to stop and say wow great moves. Just another L for us to put on the board. Would have been better in hindsight to just turn Burkes assets into picks and prospects for us to have in the pipeline today.

imagine the praise he'd get today. He'd be GM of the Isles but his finger print would be all over the team.

I'm not cheating using hindsight. What I mean is, if i was ready to praise his moves I'd be perfectly fine with abandoning the hindsight case.But instead I'm sitting here wishing we sold at the deadline instead of going for it. That's an indication to me we should just move on from thinking about Lou.

 

[Gabriel426]

I'm only half joking when I say this...

But I actually think there is a legitimate case to be made that Dubas intentionally sabotaged this team. It's gone that badly.

Why would Dubas wants to do that?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Keefe is going to get his ass fired sooner than I thought.

Dubas will follow at the end of the season.

Shanny? I'm not sure.

Start with Shanny. Then the commander in chief can fire and hire his own GM, etc. Shanny handed the keys to these guys and was involved in all of the personnel decisions. Start at the very top where its rotten, and then work your way down.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Why would Dubas wants to do that?

Good question? Why would Dubas want to do a lot of things? Why would he want to overpay all of his players? Why would he trade Kadri for peanuts?

I don't know. I have no idea.

 

[Gabriel426]

Good question? Why would Dubas want to do a lot of things? Why would he want to overpay all of his players? Why would he trade Kadri for peanuts?

I don't know. I have no idea.

I guess his decisions are based on his stats, lol.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Oh no we suck again!!!!

Feels bad man.

 

[Nineteen67]

Why couldn't they ride out the last year of the Marleau contract?
Why couldn't they hold Zaitsev a little longer (maybe a year or two) until someone needed a RHD?

What was the urgency for both of those moves?

Cap Space

 

[keonsbitterness]

We don’t care…..ESPN may have a board dedicated to basketball

And maybe an SEC baseball board for you.

I'm only half joking when I say this...

But I actually think there is a legitimate case to be made that Dubas intentionally sabotaged this team. It's gone that badly.

There is no benefit for him or MLSE to do that. By definition there are going to be crappy teams in the league, and right now we're one of them.

 

[Nineteen67]

And maybe an SEC baseball board for you.

There is no benefit for him or MLSE to do that. By definition there are going to be crappy teams in the league, and right now we're one of them.

Found one.

 

[sparxx87]

You seem to think it's a sure thing....why don't you put your money where your mouth is -we can do it for an agreed upon donation to charity.

I'll take Leafs winning a round before the Raps win another title.

Raptors are 3-4 years from a potential title under the best case scenario.

If you can't bet on the Leafs to win a round before then, I'm not sure how you could even be a fan.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

So what were you're expectations in the first 2 years of a team that has started it's building with 7 rookies in the line up?

BTW......the impact of the Marleau contract is the most overblown red herring to ever grace these boards.

GM of the year was David Poile. Runner up Chiarelli. Second runner up Dorion.

Last place to playoff team and giving Caps a run for their money is astounding. Lou not getting votes for that confirms the general view that he only plays a small role in that entire makeup. I believe round 1 of the playoffs is eligible for consideration for votes so......If Lou deserves the credit you're giving him, it should be clear cut case of GM of the year honors or even a runner up handed his way.

You keep asking questions but don't produce anything to convince anyone Lou deserves praise here.


Nobody wants to hear about Lou right now whether for or againt him, so I'll give the conclusion for all of you:


Lous grade as Leafs GM: Meh


Move on people.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Found one.

I only thought about it and I'm already bored.

 

[egd27]

What Leafs did with the contracts after is outside of the scope of the discussion.

I'm not giving Dubas a passing grade either.

There were many possibilities Lou could have done. Marleau and Zaitsev + trades with picks is one of those many options. I'll meet you halfway and say that he doesn't deserve to be bashed for it but at the same time I'm not going to stop and say wow great moves. Just another L for us to put on the board. Would have been better in hindsight to just turn Burkes assets into picks and prospects for us to have in the pipeline today.

imagine the praise he'd get today. He'd be GM of the Isles but his finger print would be all over the team.

I'm not cheating using hindsight. What I mean is, if i was ready to praise his moves I'd be perfectly fine with abandoning the hindsight case.But instead I'm sitting here wishing we sold at the deadline instead of going for it. That's an indication to me we should just move on from thinking about Lou.

I'm fine with all of that.
I'm not worshipping at the alter of Lou but I do acknowledge that despite some poor moves, he accomplished what he was brought in to do.

IMO, the current GM has taken the organization back to the country club atmosphere that has plagued this franchise for a decade plus.

That is not getting fixed by a annually tweaking the bottom six, or playing good cop behind the coach's back.

He needs to go and take the tainted coach with him.

 

[Confucius]

It's not hindsight though as the majority of people called that a horrible and unnecessary deal from day 1.

You sure about that the majority were celebrating in the streets. I see the thread had over 300 pages, fans were glued to this site.