We have the Cap room!! 2019-20 UFA Targets??

[RayP]

You will have to pry Keith from my cold dead hands if you want to trade him. I'm sorry, I can't be rational about this.

The only way I’d consider it is if Ottawa regresses to being as bad as we all expected and Colorado goes all in and is willing to give us their pick for Keith.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

The only way I’d consider it is if Ottawa regresses to being as bad as we all expected and Colorado goes all in and is willing to give us their pick for Keith.

Why is that the only way? There are plenty of scenarios where a team could include a good young player to make up the difference between a top-10 pick and a late first.

 

[RayP]

Why is that the only way? There are plenty of scenarios where a team could include a good young player to make up the difference between a top-10 pick and a late first.

Fine, one of the very few, not only.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Fine, one of the very few, not only.

Makes sense. It all comes down to whether a team is willing to actually give significant value for Keith.

I agree with you, he should not be traded just for the hell of making a move.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I don't see the Hawks trading any of the core, certainly not this year. They play it out and see how it goes.

If it did come to one of the core moving on, I think the Hawks would want it to come from the player themselves and I don't see that happening this year.

Gun to my head, I'd say Toews, Kane and Keith all retire as Hawks.

 

[RayP]

I don't see the Hawks trading any of the core, certainly not this year. They play it out and see how it goes.

If it did come to one of the core moving on, I think the Hawks would want it to come from the player themselves and I don't see that happening this year.

Gun to my head, I'd say Toews, Kane and Keith all retire as Hawks.

2, 19, and 88 are the three I want to see play their whole careers here. I’d be open to trading anyone else, although it’s not as if 7 has much value so he’s not going to fetch much. So that pretty much leaves only 50 left. I’d hate to see him go but if it’s get us a good young return I could get over it.

This obviously also excludes our hopefully new young core. Obviously wouldn’t make any sense to trade them.

 

[TLEH]

Keith plays really good defense man on man but I think as a whole the way he handles the puck hurts the team more than people realize. He threw a Nade at Jokiharju and put him in a terrible spot and essentially caused the penalty that resulted in a goal. He constantly defers to his partner when it comes to handling the puck and breaking out

 

[BK]

Keith plays really good defense man on man but I think as a whole the way he handles the puck hurts the team more than people realize. He threw a Nade at Jokiharju and put him in a terrible spot and essentially caused the penalty that resulted in a goal. He constantly defers to his partner and when it comes to handling the puck and breaking out

yep.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

yep.

Would you be open to trading Keith for a good return? Say a 1st, 2nd, and a good young player.

How about Crawford too?

 

[BK]

Would you be open to trading Keith for a good return? Say a 1st, 2nd, and a good young player.

How about Crawford too?

Yes to Keith if he was open to it with that return.

Not sure about Crow but I think I would consider it.

 

[AmericanDream]

2, 19, and 88 are the three I want to see play their whole careers here. I’d be open to trading anyone else, although it’s not as if 7 has much value so he’s not going to fetch much. So that pretty much leaves only 50 left. I’d hate to see him go but if it’s get us a good young return I could get over it.

This obviously also excludes our hopefully new young core. Obviously wouldn’t make any sense to trade them.

agreed.

The Pens struggled as well for a little while, but they kept what they felt was their core intact - Malkin, Crosby, MAF, and Letang. They had the opportunity to let MAF go when they knew Murray was ready, which helped free up cap space in the expansion draft, but he was still a big part of that core. They made a big move in getting Kessel who has been in their core now for 3 years...but they didn't make that big trade like Letang or even Malkin to shake things up...

Point is, look at us, we aren't that far off from them in terms of how you can structure an older/expensive core and build around it to at least be significant again. Our core is Kane, Toews, Keith and Crow...that is our aging core, anyone else is expendable. You then have Joker, Cat, and Schmaltz as the "next wave"....Saad, Murphy and AA in the middle...

We are IMO, one Kessel away from being a threat again, and that could very well be Panarin again. Or Stone depending on how this shakes out.

I think if you can move Seabs and AA, you do it if the offers are decent to good and you can add more cap space, but you need to do something with that space and not horde it,.

We have youngsters coming, we know this, but I think you look at what the Penguins have done, and though they are struggling right now, they have an aging core with young talent being built around it...we really are not far off from them and IMO you do not move any of the big 4 for us right now.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Yes to Keith if he was open to it with that return.

Not sure about Crow but I think I would consider it.

I agree with you here. It may push the competitive window back 1-2 years, but the team at that point should be much stronger than it otherwise would with the additional young pieces.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

agreed.

The Pens struggled as well for a little while, but they kept what they felt was their core intact - Malkin, Crosby, MAF, and Letang. They had the opportunity to let MAF go when they knew Murray was ready, which helped free up cap space in the expansion draft, but he was still a big part of that core. They made a big move in getting Kessel who has been in their core now for 3 years...but they didn't make that big trade like Letang or even Malkin to shake things up...

Point is, look at us, we aren't that far off from them in terms of how you can structure an older/expensive core and build around it to at least be significant again. Our core is Kane, Toews, Keith and Crow...that is our aging core, anyone else is expendable. You then have Joker, Cat, and Schmaltz as the "next wave"....Saad, Murphy and AA in the middle...

We are IMO, one Kessel away from being a threat again, and that could very well be Panarin again. Or Stone depending on how this shakes out.

I think if you can move Seabs and AA, you do it if the offers are decent to good and you can add more cap space, but you need to do something with that space and not horde it,.

We have youngsters coming, we know this, but I think you look at what the Penguins have done, and though they are struggling right now, they have an aging core with young talent being built around it...we really are not far off from them and IMO you do not move any of the big 4 for us right now.

There’s a huge age difference between Toews/Kane and Keith/Crawford though. I agree that you hang onto Toews/Kane because they will still be elite or near elite in 2-3 years, I don’t think you can confidently say the same about Keith/Crawford.

Toews and Kane are likely going to be your “old man” veterans when this team is truly ready to compete for a Cup again. Sure, they’re probably not far off from a 1st round exit type team, but is that really what we want here?

 

[TLEH]

I just don’t think Keith is that guy anymore. I see a lot of positive but also a lot of negative. I think Jokiharju is our best D. His ability to lose forecheckers is amazing

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I just don’t think Keith is that guy anymore. I see a lot of positive but also a lot of negative. I think Jokiharju is our best D. His ability to lose forecheckers is amazing

Strongly disagree.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I'm not sure who the best D is on this team. I can't say for certain that it's Keith anymore. Last season it was Murphy and this season it's probably Jokiharju so far.

 

[RayP]

Joker has shown flashes he can be our best defenseman, but I don’t think he’s there yet. Come next year I think he will be.

 

[AmericanDream]

There’s a huge age difference between Toews/Kane and Keith/Crawford though. I agree that you hang onto Toews/Kane because they will still be elite or near elite in 2-3 years, I don’t think you can confidently say the same about Keith/Crawford.

Toews and Kane are likely going to be your “old man” veterans when this team is truly ready to compete for a Cup again. Sure, they’re probably not far off from a 1st round exit type team, but is that really what we want here?

I think my point is this - Keith has what, 3 more years after this season left on his contract? Crow has 1 more year left after this year...why trade those two when you have nothing behind them to replace yet?? Their contracts are not hurting us, and their overall play is well on par/better than their pay is...I do not see the need to move either now when they both will either retire when this contract is up, or in Crow's case you can try and sign for less or just walk from...but in the meantime, they are still the best players we have at their positions, and if you moved them I just doubt you get much that would be able to replace them now. Both of these contracts are the good ones in terms of production vs term/cap hit.

Seabs, AA, Saad, Murphy, those are the guys that can be moved for me as they all can be replaced right away IMO in some capacity...and would generate a decent return with a lot of cap space as well...

I just think if people are expecting Keith to get traded, or are even entertaining the thought, it just doesn't make much sense for me and I doubt it happens..

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I think my point is this - Keith has what, 3 more years after this season left on his contract? Crow has 1 more year left after this year...why trade those two when you have nothing behind them to replace yet?? Their contracts are not hurting us, and their overall play is well on par/better than their pay is...I do not see the need to move either now when they both will either retire when this contract is up, or in Crow's case you can try and sign for less or just walk from...but in the meantime, they are still the best players we have at their positions, and if you moved them I just doubt you get much that would be able to replace them now. Both of these contracts are the good ones in terms of production vs term/cap hit.

Seabs, AA, Saad, Murphy, those are the guys that can be moved for me as they all can be replaced right away IMO in some capacity...and would generate a decent return with a lot of cap space as well...

I just think if people are expecting Keith to get traded, or are even entertaining the thought, it just doesn't make much sense for me and I doubt it happens..

Nobody said there’s a need to trade them. It’s not about moving their contracts for the sake of moving them.

It’s about using whatever value they still have to cash in on younger players/picks so the team can be stronger in 2-3 years.

If you don’t think this team can win a Cup in the next year or two with Keith and Crawford, then why hang onto them when you can use them to improve the team when the team is truly competitive?

 

[RayP]

Nobody said there’s a need to trade them. It’s not about moving their contracts for the sake of moving them.

It’s about using whatever value they still have to cash in on younger players/picks so the team can be stronger in 2-3 years.

If you don’t think this team can win a Cup in the next year or two with Keith and Crawford, then why hang onto them when you can use them to improve the team when the team is truly competitive?

I’d be nervous about trying to develop talent with an absolutely putrid roster and creating too much of a losing culture. There is a reason a handful of teams suck year after year despite having lots of talent and can never find a way out of the gutter.

 

[ClydeLee]

I’d be nervous about trying to develop talent with an absolutely putrid roster and creating too much of a losing culture. There is a reason a handful of teams suck year after year despite having lots of talent and can never find a way out of the gutter.

And its generally because they never develop defensive talent firsthand. Having a few great scoring options is not gonna get you far.

 

[AmericanDream]

Nobody said there’s a need to trade them. It’s not about moving their contracts for the sake of moving them.

It’s about using whatever value they still have to cash in on younger players/picks so the team can be stronger in 2-3 years.

If you don’t think this team can win a Cup in the next year or two with Keith and Crawford, then why hang onto them when you can use them to improve the team when the team is truly competitive?

you are kind of saying not to move them for the sake of it, then are saying to move them to cash in on younger players or picks...In my eyes, that is moving someone for the sake of it right?? lol... If we felt they both needed a change of scenery or were struggling and time to go, then you can make a case for it...

and I guess this is where my other point has been - you just aren't going to get enough in return to moving either of these guys right now. add that to the fact that you simply do not have replacements yet to fill their slots (doubt what you get in return would be as well)...it is a pretty strong NO for me...

I do kind of get what you are saying, but for the Hawks, these are two of their current "legends" on good contracts that are not hurting this team....moving them for unknowns or younger pieces towards a rebuild isn't the answer for me. and I do believe they are a playoff contender if a number of things go right, we aren't out by that many points as is...if you want to move out some salary to get a few picks/youngsters, then move AA or Murphy at the deadline...that frees up significant cap room, keeps the core intact and both could fetch something decent in return...add Rutta as well for a 3rd/4th rounder..

 

[ClydeLee]

Nobody said there’s a need to trade them. It’s not about moving their contracts for the sake of moving them.

It’s about using whatever value they still have to cash in on younger players/picks so the team can be stronger in 2-3 years.

If you don’t think this team can win a Cup in the next year or two with Keith and Crawford, then why hang onto them when you can use them to improve the team when the team is truly competitive?

Because if Keith declines and starts getting scratched by a team but healthy. If he retired it would damage the team when they're hoping to be on the upswing again.

Crawford is possible, but you can also still look to how its gonna ho to extend him. Is he really gone or gonna decline in 3 years you wouldn't want him back. Maybe. But maybe not that soon.

 

[Robsker]

Yes to Keith if he was open to it with that return.

Not sure about Crow but I think I would consider it.

Could Keith, at his age, realistically return a 1st, and a second and a young player? If that is what you are intimating --- that all three would come to the Hawks in exchange for Keith --- well, of course the Hawks would do that. But I highly doubt any GM would remotely even consider giving up that much for a 36 year-old D-man who has diminished dramatically over the past few years. I would surmise that attempting to trade Keith would not make any sense whatsoever - the Hawks would not get much for him, his contract now is good for the Hawks, he is a legend-type player and he is a leader for the Hawks. I think it would be almost certain that he ends his career here.

 

[BK]

Could Keith, at his age, realistically return a 1st, and a second and a young player? If that is what you are intimating --- that all three would come to the Hawks in exchange for Keith --- well, of course the Hawks would do that. But I highly doubt any GM would remotely even consider giving up that much for a 36 year-old D-man who has diminished dramatically over the past few years. I would surmise that attempting to trade Keith would not make any sense whatsoever - the Hawks would not get much for him, his contract now is good for the Hawks, he is a legend-type player and he is a leader for the Hawks. I think it would be almost certain that he ends his career here.

Vermette returned a 1st, another pick, and a prospect so I believe he would. His deal is just really affordable and he is still a top pairing player who you win cups with.