Speculation: We aren’t good enough

[Crysis]

When will people learn that we have a coaching problem and not a personnal problem?

A new coach is going to teach our one dimensional D core how to defend?

 

[Advanced stats]

And what exactly is the coaching problem? The Olympic teams, U20 team, World Championship teams, Anaheim or Detroit didn't seem to have coaching problems under Babcock.

You're getting close to 20 years ago there. The recipe for success has changed.

 

[BTP]

I think I'm getting pretty close to accepting that we need a different coach.

Babcock is a good coach, but he is just not the right fit for the team. It's pretty similar to Dwayne Casey and the Raptors (as multiple people have mentioned before).

I like Babcock, how he handles the media, his attitude towards hard-work, his accountability (even if it's not always fair, ie Nylander). However, it's the easiest fix and will likely have the biggest impact.



Not even blaming Babcock, he just isn't a right fit.


Edit: Then again, if our PP and PK were working, we wouldn't be having this conversation and we would be looking really good right now...

Agree with this. Babcock is a great coach, he is insightful and I genuinely love his outlook of life. Dude is a great teacher. Handles media well, and is quite funny.

But he's not the right guy for this team. He needs a different arsenal of players.

This team needs a coach that will let them fly and play to their strength.

I honestly think Ron Wilson would be better fit. This is his style of team.

 

[Lightsol]

his accountability (even if it's not always fair, ie Nylander).

One of the biggest problems with this team is that Babcock seems to put players in two groups; one group he holds accountable, and the other one he doesn't bother. And I'm sure those in the first group, which includes some of our best skilled players, resent him because they don't get why screwing up gets their ice time chopped, but a guy like Patrick Marleau or Ron Hainsey could go out there last year, cough up multiple goals, and not have to worry about it. And before someone says "It's veterans, DUH.", it was largely the same with Zack Hyman and Connor Brown.

 

[GLG12xx12]

St. Louis was awful last year and turned it around after a coaching change.... Pittsburgh was awful in 2015 and turned it around after a coaching change.... do you see where I'm going? You can have the most talented roster but a shit coach that the players tune out will not get you far in this league. It's been proven that you can bring in a new coach mid way through the season and win the Cup. There is NO EXCUSE to keep Babs around. It's been almost 1 whole year of shit, uninspired hockey. Fire him now so I can get back to enjoying watching the games instead of being perpetually disappointed

 

[stonec]

I honestly think Ron Wilson would be better fit. This is his style of team.

Ron Wilson? What's next, Carlyle? Not even funny as a joke. I'm sure somebody else who knows more about Toronto's history will enlighten you how the team performed under Wilson.

 

[Bomber0104]

Leafs Nation determined that Carlyle was the problem. He wasn't.
Leafs Nation determined that Wilson was the problem. He wasn't.
Leafs Nation determined that Maurice was the problem. He wasn't.

Leafs Nation is always wrong about the Leafs coach and it's 100% because they can't face the fact that the team itself is either total trash or falls short of parade-planning calibre.

 

[Crysis]

95 views in 45 minutes?
Guess the fan base aint what it used to be. 5 years ago this thread would have 500 views or more by now.
Maybe removing the hitting and fighting from the game and creating the softest team in the history of professional hockey is the culprit?

 

[BTP]

Ron Wilson? What's next, Carlyle? Not even funny as a joke. I'm sure somebody else who knows more about Toronto's history will enlighten you how the team performed under Wilson.

I remember vividly. I watched every game.

He played a run and gun style. These players would eat that up and they have the talent to play it. These guys clearly want to play like that but they are being forced to play some stagnant boring crap that they just aren't capable of.

 

[stonec]

It's been proven that you can bring in a new coach mid way through the season and win the Cup.

It has happened, but the teams who go for success long-term generally aren't switching coaches willy-nilly. The much bigger question is who is available. You don't just switch a coach to another one because of desperation, the new coach has to be a clear upgrade over the old one.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I find it borderline impossible (given the cap space and only 1 signed D) for Dubas to upgrade the defence next year.
Even this year everyone seemed to think the defence was upgraded. But it clearly hasn’t been. And that’s including “stealing” Barrie with half his cap hit retained. Just IMAGINE next year.

 

[ottomaddox]

Now that Don Cherry has been eliminated, what will they say on Analytics Corner (HNIC) this Saturday about the leafs ? I think they might praise our underlying numbers.

 

[GoonieFace]

Leafs Nation determined that Carlyle was the problem. He wasn't.
Leafs Nation determined that Wilson was the problem. He wasn't.
Leafs Nation determined that Maurice was the problem. He wasn't.

Leafs Nation is always wrong about the Leafs coach and it's 100% because they can't face the fact that the team itself is either total trash or falls short of parade-planning calibre.

yeah but they are really good on paper, that counts right?

 

[Leafs87]

When will people learn that we have a coaching problem and not a personnal problem?

I think it’s both tbh. The no f***s will take a special kind of coach to change. We need a good culture here. Toronto hasn’t had that in a very long time.

 

[Guy Boucher]

Leafs Nation determined that Carlyle was the problem. He wasn't.
Leafs Nation determined that Wilson was the problem. He wasn't.
Leafs Nation determined that Maurice was the problem. He wasn't.

Leafs Nation is always wrong about the Leafs coach and it's 100% because they can't face the fact that the team itself is either total trash or falls short of parade-planning calibre.

Carlyle was definitely a major problem, and none of those coaches had a team with this much talent.

 

[Guy Boucher]

You really have to contort yourself to believe that a team with an above average starting goalie, the best EV scorers in the league, one of the best players in the NHL over the last decade, two of the best offensive defensemen in the league, and marner+nylander, isn't good enough.

 

[Bomber0104]

Carlyle was definitely a major problem, and none of those coaches had a team with this much talent.

You're proving my point for me.

Leafs Nation determined the coaches were what was holding those talent-deprived teams back, although you're only really saying that now.

At the time those teams were very well thought of with plenty of high hopes amongst Leafs fans, probably yourself included.

Never once was it considered that a Kessel/Phaneuf/Bozak-led team couldn't win anything against legit teams.

It was those pesky coaches interfering with our glory!
.

 

[SoVi3t]

I honestly don't know what the solution is. I don't think firing anybody will accomplish anything. We already ditched Hutchinson because nobody felt like showing up in front of him every single time.

But this ain't working.

 

[stonec]

They are good enough in terms of pure talent to make the playoffs and no doubt will. Is this team good enough to beat a well-oiled machine like Boston in a best of seven series? I have my doubts about that.

 

[robertmac43]

Something has to give on this team at some point.

 

[Menzinger]

You really have to contort yourself to believe that a team with an above average starting goalie, the best EV scorers in the league, one of the best players in the NHL over the last decade, two of the best offensive defensemen in the league, and marner+nylander, isn't good enough.

Theyve got good starting goalie, 2 top 10 centres in the league, 2 top pairing quality D men, and thats not even getting to Marner and Nylander on the wing.

This team isn hardly perfect, but on paper this team is well above average, should be able to make the playoffs comfortably and even win a round. If its not able to do that, something else is going on.

 

[Bomber0104]

You really have to contort yourself to believe that a team with an above average starting goalie, the best EV scorers in the league, one of the best players in the NHL over the last decade, two of the best offensive defensemen in the league, and marner+nylander, isn't good enough.

The same lame things were said about Kessel, Phaneuf, Bernier, Bozak, etc.

The roster as a whole is hugely flawed.

Being in denial about it only prolongs the need for real change.

 

[Menzinger]

The same lame things were said about Kessel, Phaneuf, Bernier, Bozak, etc.

The roster as a whole is hugely flawed.

Being in denial about it only prolongs the need for real change.

Carlyle and Wilson had a a goalie as good as Andersen and two centres as good as Matthews and Tavares?

Pretending theyre even remotely comparable situations is absolute nonsense

 

[Kiwi]

Theyve got good starting goalie, 2 top 10 centres in the league, 2 top pairing quality D men, and thats not even getting to Marner and Nylander on the wing.

This team isn hardly perfect, but on paper this team is well above average, should be able to make the playoffs comfortably and even win a round. If its not able to do that, something else is going on.

They have talent and skill but don't or won't do a lot of other things to be successful, like attack high danger areas of the ice and defend in their own zone

 

[HolyCrap]

A new coach is going to teach our one dimensional D core how to defend?

Maybe not. But they could actually utilize the team properly. That could help.