WCQF/PDSF: (P2) San Jose Sharks vs. (P3) Vegas Golden Knights | Series Tied 3-3

[JeremyTB]

There is not a worse Building and city in the NHL than Vegas when it comes to the Sharks. That place just brings out the worst hockey in them. They needed to win game 2 which they may have if not for that horrible no goal and then a penalty on top of it that resulted in a goal.

 

[HanSolo]

It's because Vegas fans pretty consistently take any complaints about the officials personally and mock them to no end with sarcastic conspiracy talk when the bad calls are pretty clearly agreed upon by neutral fans. Erik Karlsson's trip on William, Marchessault's high stick on Couture...the call on these plays both drew the ire of neutral fans. Pages of neutral fans were in here complaining about the calls that went in favor of Vegas.

A few crucial, bad calls have pretty clearly gone in favor of Vegas in this series and they have generally had the better of things when it comes to the officials. I don't think the officiating has made the difference in any one particular game in this series. I don't think the officiating has made the difference in any one particular game in this series. But I do think it's damn bad and I do think it's generally favored Vegas this far.

I don't generally tend to get on the conspiracy side or refs screwed us side of things but I find myself on that side of it more frequently against Vegas than anybody else. I don't think it's why they win their games but I do notice it far more frequently against them than any other team.

We mock it for precisely what I've been talking about. The fact that every single game goes this way. And it certainly doesn't help that in the early days of this rivalry a few of your fans (not indicting the entire base) would attempt to make legitimate claims that the league was rigging things for us to win. And it's not always agreed upon by neutrals, many times yes, but there's also a preset bias that comes with the territory of being a team that was an expansion location that many people hated. Our team from infancy until recently would be subjected to far more negative scrutiny than praise even when we were on our historic run. Well...especially then. So I don't know how much weight neutral fan perspective counts. But certainly in game 4 with the third period parade of Shark penalties, the majority of neutral fans were acknowledging that the Sharks were losing their cool and stepping well over the line.

As to paragraph 2, I'll concede again (in the interest of fairness) that at the very least there's a credible claim to be made that the scales have been tipped in our favor in terms of the timing and veracity of the calls made in this series.

And again, I don't fault fans for complaining about the refs. I've done it before myself, and I'll certainly do it again. It's just particularly jarring when these two teams meet that we can't seem to have a discussion about the game as much as we do about the stripe patterned meta-game from the guys that skate with whistles. It's been two years of the same old story. Like I've been on this site for a long time and I like stepping outside the team board echo chamber environment and engaging in discourse with the whole league fanbase, even if debate gets heated, but two years of this of the eleven I've been on this site and I've never been more exhausted of engaging in one specific team matchup discussion than I am with the SJS/VGK games. Like there is more to talk about than the refs.

St Louis are all goalie and totally overrated.

We have outplayed them in almost every game and we still keep getting goalied.

I don't think there's been much outplaying by either side. But that's just an outsider's opinion. Either way with the history of last year's playoffs, WPG can kick rocks.

I'm not entirely in disagreement with your point and I understand where you're attempting to come from but you also need to understand the other side . Your team flops around and gets calls while running people late, throwing constant picks and high hits but nothing is ever called. Fine, but you can't call it the other way either. That's the annoyance. Look at your boy tonight, throwing flying elbows when the games over....nothing . Meir got punched in the face, nothing (Kane got a 10). The trip on ek65 was a ****ing joke. Reeves hangs on people and smashes their head to the ice every other shift...nothing.

All that aside, Vegas plays an entertaining version of hockey and I don't fault it at all. I wish the sharks could do the same night in and night out.

And that's where we get back to fan focused bias. From our perspective San Jose is doing their share of holding way too long, hooking, slashing, high sticking, etc. But since @TK and I are really the only GK fans who bounce between team and main boards to discuss the game live, and given the tendency to get shouted down for "Vegas fans have no room to talk", the discussion doesn't even address those moments. And personally I don't see the point. I'd rather talk about who is carrying momentum, who is making good plays, note when a goalie makes a good save. That's what gets me, that when these two teams play it feels like there's only one element of the game that seems to matter.

And I'll give you that the EK call was poor. First glance I actually thought it was roughing but then I got a better look and saw it was nothing. I also don't approve of McNabb's dirtier plays. I wish he'd take more of a page out of Carrier's book on how to lay a hard punishing hit without being reckless (though he sometimes steps over the line himself). I can also give you that Reaves is getting a little too...cozy out there, but I would protest that he's smashing heads into the ice every other shift. He hasn't taken it THAT far, and certainly not that often.


In any event. With respect to hockey, I don't know if San Jose necessarily played the highest level desperation hockey but that could've equally been Vegas playing tight defense but regardless that was certainly the best they played since Game 1. Jones looked solid even though Vegas only had a small handful of truly challenging chances for him, which I think is equal parts composed and active defense by San Jose and a lack of killer instinct on Vegas' part. Wish Vegas had more of that tonight, but alas they didn't. All in all, San Jose was clearly the better team and they very obviously were the deserving team tonight. So your boys earned you at least one more game to add to the season. GG.

 

[DOCHockeyGuy]

I was going through hockey twitter during last years playoffs when I came across SinBin.vegas. I don't know if I have ever read through the opinions of someone who knows that little about hockey. He claimed last year that Nate Schmidt was better than Victor Hedman. That's an example of how insane this guy is. He's completely turned me off to Vegas and I want to read through his site if the Sharks come back and win this series.

Go Sharks.

 

[Seven0two]

I was going through hockey twitter during last years playoffs when I came across SinBin.vegas. I don't know if I have ever read through the opinions of someone who knows that little about hockey. He claimed last year that Nate Schmidt was better than Victor Hedman. That's an example of how insane this guy is. He's completely turned me off to Vegas and I want to read through his site if the Sharks come back and win this series.

Go Sharks.

SinBin is that relative that says all kinds of crazy things and you just sit back and hope that no one hears any of it. In this case, that crazy relative is a blogsite/ podcast that puts out daily content that will wind up defining an entire fanbase for those that may not have had too many other interactions with us. Sheng Peng is analytical and fantastic and used to cover VGK last season and I used to love him being a kind of counter-point to SinBin's nonsense. Of course, Sheng has since moved to San Jose and covers the Sharks now.

 

[hangman005]

I was going through hockey twitter during last years playoffs when I came across SinBin.vegas. I don't know if I have ever read through the opinions of someone who knows that little about hockey. He claimed last year that Nate Schmidt was better than Victor Hedman. That's an example of how insane this guy is. He's completely turned me off to Vegas and I want to read through his site if the Sharks come back and win this series.

Go Sharks.

He's a pretty good hockey journalist, but his hockey analysis is appalling. Frankly he's a bit of a running joke on the VGK board. When he makes a good analysis we frame it and put it on the wall. I don't hate the guy, and I think he has potential, but man most of his takes right now are garbage. There was a point, he was repeatedly going on about how our PP was just unlucky.... nope it was just plain awful. No Movement and very predictable.

 

[HanSolo]

Also I will side with Sharks fans that Gallant needs to just shut the f*** up at some point. On some calls I understand, there's been some soft calls and some missed calls against us. But even on shit like that high stick that was very obviously a penalty he's barking at the refs. It's getting old.

 

[hangman005]

SinBin is that relative that says all kinds of crazy things and you just sit back and hope that no one hears any of it. In this case, that crazy relative is a blogsite/ podcast that puts out daily content that will wind up defining an entire fanbase for those that may not have had too many other interactions with us. Sheng Peng is analytical and fantastic and used to cover VGK last season and I used to love him being a kind of counter-point to SinBin's nonsense. Of course, Sheng has since moved to San Jose and covers the Sharks now.

Yeah I think he jumped in far too soon trying to analysis hockey, I think he should have tried just sticking to the reporting, get a couple of seasons or knowledge under his belt and go from there, instead we get alot of eye rolling hot takes.

 

[hangman005]

Also I will side with Sharks fans that Gallant needs to just shut the **** up at some point. On some calls I understand, there's been some soft calls and some missed calls against us. But even on **** that was very obviously a penalty he's barking at the refs. It's getting old.

I saw SinBin tweeting that he highsticked himself? From what I saw it was a good penalty by the refs. I think a little bit of bark could have been the mini conference they had, I thought they could only do that if they thought maybe it was a major penalty... but I could be mistaken.

But yeah sometimes he needs to shut up and accept the call. and far too many of his GI challenges this year have been stupid.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Interesting how no one wants to talk about the shit McNabb pulled at the end.

 

[HanSolo]

SinBin is that relative that says all kinds of crazy things and you just sit back and hope that no one hears any of it. In this case, that crazy relative is a blogsite/ podcast that puts out daily content that will wind up defining an entire fanbase for those that may not have had too many other interactions with us. Sheng Peng is analytical and fantastic and used to cover VGK last season and I used to love him being a kind of counter-point to SinBin's nonsense. Of course, Sheng has since moved to San Jose and covers the Sharks now.

Well he had a few correct takes tonight





But he's also said shit like "The Knights should just pull Fleury on this powerplay" (when the Knights were down by two with fifteen minutes to go in the third period, were playing even more poorly than they did tonight, and the powerplay was pretty much unable to sustain zone time)
"Make no mistake, William Karlsson is a superstar and the best defensive forward in the league" (his griping when Karlsson wasn't nominated for the Selke, he used +/- as his main argument)
"Marc Andre Fleury is the best goaltender in the NHL" (several times and it drives me up a f***ing wall).

Trust him for news and post/pre game quotes. Take analysis with a planet sized grain of salt. What grinds my gears about him is he's pretty much the de-facto beat writer for the Knights given his work ethic even though he's not officially affiliated with the team. And as such newer fans take everything he says as gospel. It gives me full body cringe attacks when he says something stupid on Twitter and people respond with "good point, Ken!" or "I was just thinking that!" YOU SHOULDN'T BE THINKING THAT CAUSE IT'S f***ING WRONG

I was going through hockey twitter during last years playoffs when I came across SinBin.vegas. I don't know if I have ever read through the opinions of someone who knows that little about hockey. He claimed last year that Nate Schmidt was better than Victor Hedman. That's an example of how insane this guy is. He's completely turned me off to Vegas and I want to read through his site if the Sharks come back and win this series.

Go Sharks.

Jesus, how did I miss that gem. Like it's been said. SinBin is a great reporter but a terrible analyst. I hope with time he learns more about the game and extends his knowledge sphere beyond the VGK to give perspective to some of his opinions. I just hope newer VGK fans can learn about the game faster and recognize when he's wrong.

 

[HanSolo]

Interesting how no one wants to talk about the **** McNabb pulled at the end.

You could try reading the thread.

And I'll give you that the EK call was poor. First glance I actually thought it was roughing but then I got a better look and saw it was nothing. I also don't approve of McNabb's dirtier plays. I wish he'd take more of a page out of Carrier's book on how to lay a hard punishing hit without being reckless (though he sometimes steps over the line himself). I can also give you that Reaves is getting a little too...cozy out there, but I would protest that he's smashing heads into the ice every other shift. He hasn't taken it THAT far, and certainly not that often.

 

[BattleBorn]

The number of people that care what Gallant does with the refs is surprising to me. Perhaps he didn't like the way they made the call, perhaps he doesn't like the calls they miss, perhaps he's just trying to get some emotion going on the bench. Who cares? It's not like he's got pennies in his pocket that he transfers from on side to the other when they miss a penalty on the Knights and moves it back when they miss one on the Sharks.

This doesn't even touch on the fact that a linesman isn't supposed to stop play and report to the referee for high stick penalties. He can stop play for the Couture injury, but if the refs missed the penalty (which definitely happened and they definitely missed) there's nothing I've ever seen in the rulebook that would make calling a high stick penalty appropriate in that situation, even if it happened. I'm guessing that was his real argument that everyone thinks is stupid and that he needs to shut up over, even though he's got a valid argument.

 

[poppap527]

SinBin is that relative that says all kinds of crazy things and you just sit back and hope that no one hears any of it. In this case, that crazy relative is a blogsite/ podcast that puts out daily content that will wind up defining an entire fanbase for those that may not have had too many other interactions with us. Sheng Peng is analytical and fantastic and used to cover VGK last season and I used to love him being a kind of counter-point to SinBin's nonsense. Of course, Sheng has since moved to San Jose and covers the Sharks now.

He’s not even a beat writer, but he’s quickly become our best beat writer.

 

[BattleBorn]

The number of people that care what Gallant does with the refs is surprising to me. Perhaps he didn't like the way they made the call, perhaps he doesn't like the calls they miss, perhaps he's just trying to get some emotion going on the bench. Who cares? It's not like he's got pennies in his pocket that he transfers from on side to the other when they miss a penalty on the Knights and moves it back when they miss one on the Sharks.

This doesn't even touch on the fact that a linesman isn't supposed to stop play and report to the referee for high stick penalties. He can stop play for the Couture injury, but if the refs missed the penalty (which definitely happened and they definitely missed) there's nothing I've ever seen in the rulebook that would make calling a high stick penalty appropriate in that situation, even if it happened. I'm guessing that was his real argument that everyone thinks is stupid and that he needs to shut up over, even though he's got a valid argument.

lol, and as soon as I mention it, our friend at Sinbin posts the exact rule.

ETA: and it turns out the linesman can stop play for a high stick, but it has to be a high stick with an injury resulting in a double minor, which didn't happen.

 

[hangman005]

lol, and as soon as I mention it, our friend at Sinbin posts the exact rule.

I think a little bit of bark could have been the mini conference they had, I thought they could only do that if they thought maybe it was a major penalty... but I could be mistaken.

That's what I thought,

 

[hangman005]

He’s not even a beat writer, but he’s quickly become our best beat writer.

Take care of him, we miss him.

 

[HanSolo]

The number of people that care what Gallant does with the refs is surprising to me. Perhaps he didn't like the way they made the call, perhaps he doesn't like the calls they miss, perhaps he's just trying to get some emotion going on the bench. Who cares? It's not like he's got pennies in his pocket that he transfers from on side to the other when they miss a penalty on the Knights and moves it back when they miss one on the Sharks.

This doesn't even touch on the fact that a linesman isn't supposed to stop play and report to the referee for high stick penalties. He can stop play for the Couture injury, but if the refs missed the penalty (which definitely happened and they definitely missed) there's nothing I've ever seen in the rulebook that would make calling a high stick penalty appropriate in that situation, even if it happened. I'm guessing that was his real argument that everyone thinks is stupid and that he needs to shut up over, even though he's got a valid argument.

I certainly don't like the emerging meme that the NHL is doing what Daddy Gerard is saying. But I also don't like the frequency with which he's barking at the refs. He didn't do this last year, and at some point he's gonna start to build a reputation that can work against us.

 

[BattleBorn]

I certainly don't like the emerging meme that the NHL is doing what Daddy Gerard is saying. But I also don't like the frequency with which he's barking at the refs. He didn't do this last year, and at some point he's gonna start to build a reputation that can work against us.

As long as he's got a valid point, he should stay in their ears.

The argument tonight stemmed from an officiating mistake and will wind up on the officials' review for sure.

 

[one2gamble]

lol, and as soon as I mention it, our friend at Sinbin posts the exact rule.

ETA: and it turns out the linesman can stop play for a high stick, but it has to be a high stick with an injury resulting in a double minor, which didn't happen.

I mean it happened it just wasn't called correctly

 

[BattleBorn]

I mean it happened it just wasn't called correctly

The act happened for sure, it was officiated incorrectly. I'm guessing that's his point.

 

[one2gamble]

The act happened for sure, it was officiated incorrectly. I'm guessing that's his point.

You think he was arguing for an extra 2 minutes?

 

[HanSolo]

As long as he's got a valid point, he should stay in their ears.

The argument tonight stemmed from an officiating mistake and will wind up on the officials' review for sure.

I mean I personally think that even if the refs missed a call and didn't see it, as long as there was actually a penalty, there should be a penalty on the play. It's when refs start to make calls over nothing just because one team invents one as a mode of gamesmanship that I think there would be a problem. Couture WAS high sticked and a penalty should have resulted. As much as it hurt us, it was the right call to make. I don't think it should be invalidated just because it wasn't seen. Especially with physical evidence to the effect of a high stick.

But that's all besides the point. In recent months the amount of times Gallant yells at the refs has spiked exponentially compared to last year (I mean it would have to given that he did it very rarely last year). It really feels like he yells about every call that goes against us. Whether it was a good or bad call. And I can understand wanting to be seen by your players as a guy that will fight for his team, but the human element of refereeing extends beyond human error. He keeps barking at the refs and the risk of negativity bias can increase.

 

[BattleBorn]

You think he was arguing for an extra 2 minutes?

I think he was arguing that unless the referees put their arm up to call the penalty that it shouldn't have been a penalty since the linesman can't report a 2 minute high stick penalty after the fact.

However, if they're going to call that penalty due to the linesman seeing the penalty and stopping play due to the injury the only way they should have done it was to call a double minor.

 

[one2gamble]

I think he was arguing that unless the referees put their arm up to call the penalty that it shouldn't have been a penalty since the linesman can't report a 2 minute high stick penalty after the fact.

However, if they're going to call that penalty due to the linesman seeing the penalty and stopping play due to the injury the only way they should have done it was to call a double minor.

That's idiotic

 

[hangman005]

You think he was arguing for an extra 2 minutes?

Probably more that they couldn’t call the 2 minutes in the manner they did. It should have been 0 or 4. Naturally I assume he’d be arguing 0 which would have been more technically correct than the 2 awarded.