Prospect Info: Way Too Early Devils-Centric Mock Draft For February

[Scooooooooooooot]

Bob McKenzie isn’t a scout, he does make his mock draft based off information he gets from several scouts. With that said, the entire hockey world had Ivan Provorov higher then Pavel Zacha. David Conte went with his pick mostly based off our horrific depth up front since we had a bunch of dman that were on the rise (and they all underperformed).

That’s the worst way to go about a draft and now and we gift wrapped, to our division rival, a top pairing dman and we have a 3rd line center.

okay but its still not the same as Seider (who was highly seen as a mid first rounder) and Hayton (who wasnt in most scouts top 10s). Zacha was ranked about where he went. Theres no real BPA when youre picking outside the top 1-3 in most drafts. Zadina was seen as BPA in 2018 and I like him a lot but Quinn Hughes maybe goes first in a re draft. Just feel like people overblow the Zacha pick as some off the board pick, it just didnt work out and he was rated in the are we were picking. Noah hanifin could have fallen to us and he was seen as cant miss and looks like a bag of **** now.

 

[Wierzbowski426]

Bob McKenzie isn’t a scout, he does make his mock draft based off information he gets from several scouts. With that said, the entire hockey world had Ivan Provorov higher then Pavel Zacha. David Conte went with his pick mostly based off our horrific depth up front since we had a bunch of dman that were on the rise (and they all underperformed).

That’s the worst way to go about a draft and we basically gift wrapped, to our division rival, a top pairing dman and we have a 3rd line center.

None of this is true. More people trying to use the Zacha pick to validate their confirmation bias.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

None of this is true. More people trying to use the Zacha pick to validate their confirmation bias.

Everything I said is true and if you can find any mock drafts or professional experts who had Pavel Zacha over Ivan Provorov in their final rankings, which you won’t be able to do, I’ll gladly move on and give you all the credit you deserve.

Zacha was picked because we needed a forward. We just took the wrong guy and to double down on that mistake, we picked for need instead of BPA.

I can remember like it was yesterday, the reaction Sam Cosentino, Sportsnet’s draft guru, had when we were on the clock and Provorov, in his mind was a lock to be our pick. When we took Zacha, he was floored because yes, Pavel had the upside but Provorov’s floor and upside was far superior to Zacha’s.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

What am I missing about Raymond? 165 pounds...Admittedly I haven't seen much of him, but stat wise I'm definitely not seeing anything that stands out.

He's getting the Hynes Zacha treatment, maybe 100 times worse.

 

[longislanddevil]

Zacha sure has become a polarizing figure...wish I didn’t bring him up. Lol...I’m with @Taylors lost step in that I distinctly remember Zacha being universally ranked in the 10-14 range. With that said, I wasn’t outraged like some others at the time or even after the fact. I do feel like he was overdrafted based on the overall consensus.

I can’t profess to have had the foresight to firmly believe Provorov or Barzal would be better pros. I’m not anti-Zacha at all and had high hopes for him. I haven’t given up on Zacha becoming a 20/50 player but it’s highly unlikely he will ever turn into the player Conte thought he was drafting.

The point I was trying to make is teams overdraft players and go off the board every year. Landing a Raymond or Perfetti is more likely to occur IMHO via a team falling in love with a Quinn/Lundell or player in that elongated next tier (and us grabbing a kid we didn’t think would be there at 9) than a team trading down a few spots with us.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I'd give up the Arizona and Vancouver picks to get to 7 for certain. That's potentially Marco Rossi.

...ooooor Rossi could go third overall. There's just that much uncertainty between picks #3-#8 in the 2020 draft.

 

[StevenToddIves]

What am I missing about Raymond? 165 pounds...Admittedly I haven't seen much of him, but stat wise I'm definitely not seeing anything that stands out.

I'd advise caution in weighing statistics too heavily when determining draft picks, especially without proper context.

Right now, Lucas Raymond is the youngest player on a contending Frolunda team in the SHL -- so, he's playing 4th line minutes with very little time on the PP. Therefore his 9 points all year do not even begin to tell you the story which is revealed only by watching him play -- he's a tremendous skater with a jaw-dropping combination of stick-handling/vision. He's got an extremely high hockey IQ which, when mixed with his creativity, makes him a guy playing chess vs. checker-players when he's facing off against similar-aged opposition. I would agree that his size is a weakness in the sense that he will never be a player to dominate physical battles, but with smaller players I tend to focus in on compete level/courage -- and Raymond possesses both of those qualities in spades. Thus, while he'll never be able to hold off NHL defenders with one arm as he drives to the net and scores a la Jagr/Matthews, he is brave enough to go to the net against any physical D and his lower body strength/skating acuity allows him to keep his balance and puck possession in order to make tough plays in tough areas. It's also worth noting that Raymond is a pretty good two-way winger who can play either wing, though he is a right-shot.

If there is one aspect which could keep Raymond from the Devils, it's that -- although he has a very good shot -- he is not a natural goal-scorer. Raymond is more of a possession/playmaking winger, though I would say his upside is around 30 goals. It is for this reason that New Jersey -- organizationally more in need of scorers on the wing than playmakers -- would potentially see him as the second-most coveted Swedish winger in this draft after fellow "Terror Twin" Alexander Holtz.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Bob McKenzie isn’t a scout, he does make his mock draft based off information he gets from several scouts. With that said, the entire hockey world had Ivan Provorov higher then Pavel Zacha. David Conte went with his pick mostly based off our horrific depth up front since we had a bunch of dman that were on the rise (and they all underperformed).

That’s the worst way to go about a draft and we basically gift wrapped, to our division rival, a top pairing dman and we have a 3rd line center.

If the Devils had picked Provorov, the Flyers would have taken Werenski, so I guess pick your poison.

 

[StevenToddIves]

okay but its still not the same as Seider (who was highly seen as a mid first rounder) and Hayton (who wasnt in most scouts top 10s). Zacha was ranked about where he went. Theres no real BPA when youre picking outside the top 1-3 in most drafts. Zadina was seen as BPA in 2018 and I like him a lot but Quinn Hughes maybe goes first in a re draft. Just feel like people overblow the Zacha pick as some off the board pick, it just didnt work out and he was rated in the are we were picking. Noah hanifin could have fallen to us and he was seen as cant miss and looks like a bag of **** now.

I'd like to puff out my chest a bit and say that I had Seider as the #2 D in the entire draft after Byram, and thought it was a terrific pick where Detroit grabbed him.

Also, I'd like to cry a bit in adding that Noah Hanifin would be a no-brainer top-pairing D on my favorite team.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

I'd like to puff out my chest a bit and say that I had Seider as the #2 D in the entire draft after Byram, and thought it was a terrific pick where Detroit grabbed him.

Also, I'd like to cry a bit in adding that Noah Hanifin would be a no-brainer top-pairing D on my favorite team.

agree on both parts here, i really like Seider and think it was a very good pick. When the palmieri for Hanifin rumors came out i was bullish but he would be a top pair guy no doubt for us, but then again mirco Mueller is our top LHD right now so extremely low bar haha

 

[VoidCreature]

I would take Rossi 3rd. Size isn’t a concern with that level of production.

At some point enough Debrincats will succeed and convince GMs skill comes first. Maybe.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

If the Devils had picked Provorov, the Flyers would have taken Werenski, so I guess pick your poison.

That’s possible but I’m not criticizing the Flyers pick, who’ve done a bang up job btw in adding talent via the draft in the last several years, but more so the fact that we went for need over talent.

That’s what you do in the latter rounds but in the top #60, you go for talent 10X out of 10.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I would take Rossi 3rd. Size isn’t a concern with that level of production.

At some point enough Debrincats will succeed and convince GMs skill comes first. Maybe.

I recently said to Cam Robinson (Dobber/Elite Prospects) how I did not view Marco Rossi as a small center at all, but rather a huge center in a smaller body. Cam agreed. Throw away the measurements when it comes to this kid -- he's built like a fire hydrant and extremely strong on his skates; he's probably the best two-way center in the entire draft and fears nothing. Rossi plays with an edge and has the courage to initiate with anyone, no matter what their size. If the Devils took him as early as #3 overall, it would be a fantastic pick.

 

[Alex NJD]

Zacha sure has become a polarizing figure...wish I didn’t bring him up. Lol...I’m with @Taylors lost step in that I distinctly remember Zacha being universally ranked in the 10-14 range. With that said, I wasn’t outraged like some others at the time or even after the fact. I do feel like he was overdrafted based on the overall consensus.

I can’t profess to have had the foresight to firmly believe Provorov or Barzal would be better pros. I’m not anti-Zacha at all and had high hopes for him. I haven’t given up on Zacha becoming a 20/50 player but it’s highly unlikely he will ever turn into the player Conte thought he was drafting.

The point I was trying to make is teams overdraft players and go off the board every year. Landing a Raymond or Perfetti is more likely to occur IMHO via a team falling in love with a Quinn/Lundell or player in that elongated next tier (and us grabbing a kid we didn’t think would be there at 9) than a team trading down a few spots with us.

2015 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings
Looks like he was anywhere from 6-15 on most of these lists. Outside of the top 5 and Provorov who was always top 10, 6 to 13-14 that year was going any which way.
Barzal and Connor would have gone 12-13 if Dallas and Boston didn't reach with their picks. (Boston's scouting director should really have been fired for that)

 

[njdevils1982]

I recently said to Cam Robinson (Dobber/Elite Prospects) how I did not view Marco Rossi as a small center at all, but rather a huge center in a smaller body. Cam agreed. Throw away the measurements when it comes to this kid -- he's built like a fire hydrant and extremely strong on his skates; he's probably the best two-way center in the entire draft and fears nothing. Rossi plays with an edge and has the courage to initiate with anyone, no matter what their size. If the Devils took him as early as #3 overall, it would be a fantastic pick.

a player with talent AND some fire?

sign me up!

 

[ninetyeight]

Regardless if Zacha was pre-ranked 6th or 15th, the majority of posters on this subboard wanted him (especially if Marner and Strome wasn't available anymore). When they picked him everyone was all excited, Zacha wanted devils to draft him (because of the history with Czechs) and people loved him even more.

So just because the Devils pick the guy most of us want, Rossi, Stutzle, Drysdale, Quinn whoever, doesn't mean it's the right pick and that the player doesn't get Zacha'd.

I do still love Zacha and honestly still believe he can become a good 60 point two-way forward, even if most of those points come in the final third
I think the fact that he has been bounced around in the lineup, forced to play with guys he has no chemistry with, has not helped his development. I think there's been two line combinations where he has looked like a true first rounder, first when he played with Nico and Bratt, and now with Bratt and Gusev. Bratt could obviously play with anyone, he'd make Hayden look great, but he really has some great chemistry with Zacha on and off ice. I really hope they keep this line together all the way to next season and don't just give up on it after the first couple of games they don't score.

 

[TBF1972]

Zacha sure has become a polarizing figure...wish I didn’t bring him up. Lol...I’m with @Taylors lost step in that I distinctly remember Zacha being universally ranked in the 10-14 range. With that said, I wasn’t outraged like some others at the time or even after the fact. I do feel like he was overdrafted based on the overall consensus.

I can’t profess to have had the foresight to firmly believe Provorov or Barzal would be better pros. I’m not anti-Zacha at all and had high hopes for him. I haven’t given up on Zacha becoming a 20/50 player but it’s highly unlikely he will ever turn into the player Conte thought he was drafting.

The point I was trying to make is teams overdraft players and go off the board every year. Landing a Raymond or Perfetti is more likely to occur IMHO via a team falling in love with a Quinn/Lundell or player in that elongated next tier (and us grabbing a kid we didn’t think would be there at 9) than a team trading down a few spots with us.

that's exactly my point of view. before the draft you might be able to acquire the #9 overall pick, if askarov is a viable target of the team. if he isn't available, you luck into a prospect of the highest tiers. once the picks fall in places you need to find a team within the top 8, who has one or more of the top 8 ranked lower and only them on the board. else bribe them to move back would be extremely costly. think montreal acquiring the #1OA.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Regardless if Zacha was pre-ranked 6th or 15th, the majority of posters on this subboard wanted him (especially if Marner and Strome wasn't available anymore).

No, we were pretty evenly split between Zacha and Barzal.

 

[longislanddevil]

2015 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings
Looks like he was anywhere from 6-15 on most of these lists. Outside of the top 5 and Provorov who was always top 10, 6 to 13-14 that year was going any which way.
Barzal and Connor would have gone 12-13 if Dallas and Boston didn't reach with their picks. (Boston's scouting director should really have been fired for that)

Thank you for posting this. Perhaps “universally” was the wrong word choice to use semantically for Zacha being ranked between 10-14. With that said, most of the reputable scouting outlets you listed had Zacha lower than 6th overall. 4 of 12 actually had him 15 or lower.

2- 6th
1- 7th
1- 8th
3- 10
1- 11
4- 15 or lower

I had no qualms with the pick at the time. I did think the Devils could have traded down (or preferred they did) to get the player and accrue another asset. However, reports surfaced that Conte was in love with Zacha and did not want to chance it.

 

[NJDevils17]

I remember people wanting Barzal and a small Rantanen crew (me and a few others.)

Zacha was disappointing for most at the time.

 

[Alex NJD]

I remember people wanting Barzal and a small Rantanen crew (me and a few others.)

Zacha was disappointing for most at the time.

I remember one dude on here wanted Meier and everyone else started explaining how that would be an awful pick

 

[My3Sons]

I remember people wanting Barzal and a small Rantanen crew (me and a few others.)

Zacha was disappointing for most at the time.

I was only a lurker at the time, but I do recall that some posters also discussed Provorov as a pick at 6. In retrospect, Rantanen may have been the best pick at that spot for NJ. He'd look pretty good playing next to Jack or Nico (yeah I know the butterfly effect changes that in the alternative reality I'm postulating).

 

[Kurt Cobain]

I remember people wanting Barzal and a small Rantanen crew (me and a few others.)

Zacha was disappointing for most at the time.

This is how I remember it. I was full on in the Barzal camp. I thought he looked as skilled as Marner if not more. I wanted to trade back a few picks since this was such a deep draft. I don't hate the Zacha pick though. I still think he can be a 55 point player as early as next season. Plus I tend to judge drafts by the entire drafts and not just a first pick. The fact we got Blackwood who has potential do go down in future redrafts as a top 5 pick. Honestly I have no regrets. Of we took Barzal we probably don't end up with Hughes. We're also probably better this season but still not good enough for the playoffs. So we end up not getting some amazing talent in this year's draft. Zacha's slow start to his career gave us the ability to lock him up for a few years at a discounted price. He's on one of the better contracts because of that for the next 3 years.

 

[Blackjack]

This is how I remember it. I was full on in the Barzal camp. I thought he looked as skilled as Marner if not more. I wanted to trade back a few picks since this was such a deep draft. I don't hate the Zacha pick though. I still think he can be a 55 point player as early as next season. Plus I tend to judge drafts by the entire drafts and not just a first pick. The fact we got Blackwood who has potential do go down in future redrafts as a top 5 pick. Honestly I have no regrets. Of we took Barzal we probably don't end up with Hughes. We're also probably better this season but still not good enough for the playoffs. So we end up not getting some amazing talent in this year's draft. Zacha's slow start to his career gave us the ability to lock him up for a few years at a discounted price. He's on one of the better contracts because of that for the next 3 years.

I don't even want to know what people are going to do on the parking garage if Zacha scores 55 points next season.

 

[TBF1972]

I would take Rossi 3rd. Size isn’t a concern with that level of production.

At some point enough Debrincats will succeed and convince GMs skill comes first. Maybe.

size is not a concern because of the production. size is a concern because of the make up of the team. hughes, bratt and adding rossi and you quickly get a really small top six.