Washington, Pittsburgh, Toronto, battle of big fives

jetsforever

Registered User
Dec 14, 2013
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Laine/Scheifele/Wheeler/Byfuglien/Hellebuyck ;)

Out of the three though, probably Pens>Caps>Leafs right now, but it's close
 
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Devil Dancer

Registered User
Jan 21, 2006
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Great thread. Comparing HF's favourite team to the past two cup winners.

Clearly no agenda in this thread at all, great stuff.

I don't know, being included in a conversation of who is the best in the league is pretty flattering.
 

DANTHEMAN1967

Registered User
Aug 10, 2016
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If the question is which 5 would you want going forward it is easily the Leafs.

AVERAGE AGE OF THE FIVE:
Penguins (29.8)
Capitals (29.4)
Leafs (24.6)

AVERAGE AGE OF THE SKATERS (no goalies)
Penguins (31.25)
Capitals (29.5)
Leafs (23.5)
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
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While living in Pitt, I didn’t get Root and Pittsburgh has a deal which blacks out every national game besides NBC, so I didn’t watch Murray a lot unless friends and I went to the games or out to bars, but if Murray’s 5-hole and, especially, glove side didn’t improve, there’s a strong gap for Holtby and Murray.

Offensively speaking, Letang is, career wise, a better option than Carlson, but I have to go with what a Dman is actually there to do; defend. Sullivan even said Letang has to be better, because he was faltering really badly/regressing in his own zone. The edge in Ozone play goes to Letang, but I’d take Carlson pretty much any day since he’s good in his own Zone.

That’s also the thing too... “if old Letang is back”. Not trying to call you out or go after everything you’re saying, but it doesn’t look like the good Letang is back. The injuries have kind of derailed his D play, not necessarily his Ozone play. Sure everyone can say he rides the Ozone play if Crosby/Malkin and so on, but the same thing could be said about Carlson with Ovi and their depth.

Career wise, yeah the Penguins kind of wash everyone away and it may not be close. Based off of recent play, I think that Holtby and Carlson bridge the gap that Crosby/Malkin/Kessel have over Ovi/Backstrom/Kuznetsov


Just look at Murray's playoff stats. Dude is every bit as good as Holtby.


Aside from one down year, Letang blows away Carlson.

Putting down Letangs D but propping up Carlson's is laughable. Carlson is subpar at defending. Letang is the better defender and 5v5 Dman.

Carlson is a much better Ozone Dman and PPQB, his shot is much better. But Letang is the better guy at transistion and has a history at playing tougher mins.

I feel like Niskanen and Orlov handled alot of the tough mins for the Caps. Is Carlson even the Best D on Washington? I really like Orlov and Niskanen beter when it comes down to 5v5 play.
 

Connor McConnor

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Nov 22, 2017
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Kucherov Stamkos Point Hedman Vasi should be in here...

For the basis of staying on topic:
Caps > Pens > Leafs mostly because of experience. Leafs group is up and coming but they don't have the pedigree that the former 2 have which is why I would trust them much more this season atleast.
 
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CapnZin

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Jul 20, 2017
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Just look at Murray's playoff stats. Dude is every bit as good as Holtby.


Aside from one down year, Letang blows away Carlson.

Putting down Letangs D but propping up Carlson's is laughable. Carlson is subpar at defending. Letang is the better defender and 5v5 Dman.

Carlson is a much better Ozone Dman and PPQB, his shot is much better. But Letang is the better guy at transistion and has a history at playing tougher mins.

I feel like Niskanen and Orlov handled alot of the tough mins for the Caps. Is Carlson even the Best D on Washington? I really like Orlov and Niskanen beter when it comes down to 5v5 play.
As a comparable, Carlson has a better High Danger Shot Suppression Rate. I get that your D partner is also a really big cause of that and depending upon Carlson’s partner (Orlov) that can be much better or lower, however, Dumolin has great suppression stats.

That’s the best stat a Dman can have.
 

Spirit of 67

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Nov 25, 2016
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Didn't realize the Leafs were in the conversation of nearly every thread on these boards yet somehow it always ends up that way.
I know it must be hard to accept that the Leafs still aren't even the best team in their own division and arguably not even top 5 in the conference:

1-3: Caps/Bolts/Pens (pretty interchangeable at this point)
4: Gritty (could contend for number one)
5: Bruins/Leafs/ CBJ (again, interchangeable)
OP asked which of 3 teams had the best 5.
I didn't put them in the thread, I simply ventured an opinion.

Don't let you hate blind you son.
 

Taluss

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Jul 28, 2018
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Give me Caps and Pens core before Torontos. They have won Cups while Torontos hasnt done anything yet. They could be the answer in the future but not right now.

Using cups as justification is a real poor way to go. Look at Nashville and Sharks. Their D is the best in the NHL and they haven’t won cups
 

BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
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Cs are close (pens win though), but Caps win W/D/G pretty easily.

C's really aren't that close. Either one of the caps C would be 3rd ih Pitt. And yeah, Holtby finally showed up in the 2nd round after 3 tries, so I guess you can cling to that a bit.
 

Ridley Simon

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Letang is better than Carlson, so to see him set equal to Rielly doesn't make much sense to me. 1 bad year for Letang where he missed all of his summer training due to an injury doesn't erase the previous years of excellence, especially considering how dominant he looks this year. Toronto shouldn't even be in this conversation, Tampa Bay would be a better team to mention here.

In terms of these 3 teams, I think it's really clearly Pittsburgh followed by Washington followed by Toronto. The Penguins have the 2 best centers and the Capitals have the best goalie, with the winger and defensemen being debatable between the two (would probably take Ovechkin and Letang, although it's not super clear cut). Toronto has nothing even debatable for #1.

Wait...the best W is "debatable?". Ovechkin is better than Kessel and Marner. I mean, come ON.

Even with the homer glasses on. Thats like me saying its debatable between Kuznetsov and Malkin. Kuz is great...but he's not Malkin. Same for Kessel...but he's not Ovechkin
 
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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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I can see an argument for both at 1 but I don’t like how much Letang has regressed in his own end. Both are significantly ahead of the Leafs.

Letang's been outstanding this season. It's early, obviously, and injury concerns will always be there. But he's looked as good this season as he did when he was finishing top 3, top 5 in Norris voting.
 

JasonRoseEh

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Oct 23, 2018
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Caps, and surprisingly by a decent margin. Mostly because Letang and Murray being atrocious in the playoffs is still fresh in my mind combined with the Caps four skaters all having 13 points through 8 games (and coming off big seasons/playoffs).

Centers: Pens > Caps > Leafs (pretty close overall though)
Wing: Ovechkin >> Marner ~ Kessel
Defenseman: Carlson > Reilly >> Letang
Goaltender: Holtby > Murray ~ Anderssen

I'm biased, but i think most people would give the edge to the Caps at W/D/G and if Kuzy/Backstrom are behind the other 2 duos it isn't by much.

So Caps > Pens > Leafs. Which kind of magnifies how much an elite Center duo can impact a game. Because nobody would expect the Caps to dominate the Pens in a series as these rankings would suggest.
I don't think you're doing Murray justice here. While he wasn't incredible last year, he was the reason you won the previous 2 cups in a lot of ways. One off year doesn't change that and while Holtby overall is a playoff anchor, prior to last year he'd have crippling performances at the worst times, generally series deciding games.

On topic, I think the Caps and Pens are quite a bit ahead and a strong Leafs start does nothing to change that.
 

The List Of Jericho

Judas effect
Mar 1, 2002
18,024
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The Leafs are overrated. They haven't done anything in the playoffs.

They're soft. They get out-hit every game. They can't win wall battles.

As skilled as Washington and Pittsburgh are, they are also feisty. Leafs don't have that element to their game. Just look at the hits per game stat:

Pittsburgh is #1
Washington is #4
Leafs is #21

Basically, they aren't built for playoffs style hockey.

Edit: Before I get flamed, just look at the past 2 games. Leafs were forced to play a style of hockey they weren't comfortable with and look what happened. They got dominated.

Your right, let’s give the Isles a call and get Matt Martin back or give Vegas a call and get Reaves in here to clean some clocks.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
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Letang looks like his dominant self again, which despite silly HF myths, means he’s playing insane two way hockey. He’s extremely good in his own end and has been for years, despite struggling some last season coming off neck surgery.

This honestly should be about top pairs though, because Letang and Dumo are looking like the best pair in hockey right now.
 

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