OT: Washington [Insert Team Name Here] 2020 Season Thread 10: Kickers are the best athletes

[robertmac43]

Playing the national anthem before sports is dumb and that practice should be stopped.

The older I get the less I enjoy the anthem before the game. With more knowledge on the history of the US (and Canada for that matter) It seems to be more and more out of place.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Without getting political or OT, there's just no need for it. What was meant to be a unifying tribute is now divisive and controversial. There's also no need to connect the flag with the military (or police), and then the flag and the military with sports. These are games -- forms of entertainment -- and we don't do it before other forms of entertainment such as movies, plays, concerts, etc and we shouldn't do it before sports.

 

[g00n]

Without getting political or OT, there's just no need for it. What was meant to be a unifying tribute is now divisive and controversial. There's also no need to connect the flag with the military (or police), and then the flag and the military with sports. These are games -- forms of entertainment -- and we don't do it before other forms of entertainment such as movies, plays, concerts, etc and we shouldn't do it before sports.

Whatever the original stated intent, the effect is to link patriotism to the substitute violence we follow vicariously to placate the animal/warrior natures within us. Attaching that outlet to a unifying, nationalistic element serves the state. This is why the military is so heavily involved with pro sports, especially the more violent ones like football and hockey, right down to all the "military appreciation" efforts and advertising. The sports in turn receive tax breaks and other preferential treatment, like pushes for public funding of stadiums.

Maybe stating the obvious.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Playing the national anthem before sports is dumb and that practice should be stopped.

Since the anthems can’t be left above politics and people are using them as tools for gain, it sure seems that’s the way we’re headed. Sad state of our country IMO.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Without getting political or OT, there's just no need for it. What was meant to be a unifying tribute is now divisive and controversial. There's also no need to connect the flag with the military (or police), and then the flag and the military with sports. These are games -- forms of entertainment -- and we don't do it before other forms of entertainment such as movies, plays, concerts, etc and we shouldn't do it before sports.

of course Police are deeply entrenched at these events....they secure most of them in each city. As First Responders they’re kinda lumped in with Fire Fighters and paramedics with the Military. It is what it is.

Saying there is no need to connect the flag to the military is mind boggling to me. There is no need to connect as they are inextricably interwoven IMO.

now if you want to say that the NFL should no longer make a point of specifically honoring our Armed Forces and the Country at their games with the playing of the anthems, as the son of a Vet, I don’t think that would bother me, but the Armed Forces would mind I think. It’s huge for troop moral and for recruiting to be in that spotlight.

 

[John Price]

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

of course Police are deeply entrenched at these events....they secure most of them in each city. As First Responders they’re kinda lumped in with Fire Fighters and paramedics with the Military. It is what it is.

Saying there is no need to connect the flag to the military is mind boggling to me. There is no need to connect as they are inextricably interwoven IMO.

now if you want to say that the NFL should no longer make a point of specifically honoring our Armed Forces and the Country at their games with the playing of the anthems, as the son of a Vet, I don’t think that would bother me, but the Armed Forces would mind I think. It’s huge for troop moral and for recruiting to be in that spotlight.

Just for context, I'm a vet and my wife is an active duty officer and much of our family has served and continues to serve in various branches of the military. It's important to remember that the military takes an oath to defend the constitution, not the flag, and making the flag the focal link between military service and patriotism continues to cloud who and what the military actually serves and continues to provide a visual marker that people can draw a line in sand against. The argument that kneeling for the anthem disrespects the flag and disrespects the military is absurdly misguided and the longer we continue to perpetuate the charade of "the flag = the troops" the more entrenched this misguided sense of patriotism becomes. I actually find it pretty dangerous because it deflects the conversation away from topics that actually matter.

Have a military appreciation day around Veterans Day in November if it's important for sports leagues to continue to have a link between the leagues and the military but let's stop this nonsense of parading giant flags out before every sporting event and dissecting everyone's response to it.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I never served in the military but my father is a Vietnam Vet and he stands and salutes the flag during the anthem before every game I attend with him. I take my cues from him. And besides, I am proud to be an American and I am proud to pledge my allegiance to the flag in public and private. It’s sad to think that may be the minority opinion these days.

 

[Corby78]

Just for context, I'm a vet and my wife is an active duty officer and much of our family has served and continues to serve in various branches of the military. It's important to remember that the military takes an oath to defend the constitution, not the flag, and making the flag the focal link between military service and patriotism continues to cloud who and what the military actually serves and continues to provide a visual marker that people can draw a line in sand against. The argument that kneeling for the anthem disrespects the flag and disrespects the military is absurdly misguided and the longer we continue to perpetuate the charade of "the flag = the troops" the more entrenched this misguided sense of patriotism becomes. I actually find it pretty dangerous because it deflects the conversation away from topics that actually matter.

Have a military appreciation day around Veterans Day in November if it's important for sports leagues to continue to have a link between the leagues and the military but let's stop this nonsense of parading giant flags out before every sporting event and dissecting everyone's response to it.

As an active duty member I disagree with your first paragraph.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Patch will be worn all season.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Oh Lord.

 

[EroCaps]

The national anthem is a banal celebration of patriotism that transcends politics, not a forced salute to some Great Leader or Communist Party.

It's an expression of Civil Society.

We need it now more than ever if we're not going to f***ing kill each other in the streets.

Incidentally, if you think America itself is distasteful or even evil, expand your reading list, because you are woefully lacking historical perspective.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Just for context, I'm a vet and my wife is an active duty officer and much of our family has served and continues to serve in various branches of the military. It's important to remember that the military takes an oath to defend the constitution, not the flag, and making the flag the focal link between military service and patriotism continues to cloud who and what the military actually serves and continues to provide a visual marker that people can draw a line in sand against. The argument that kneeling for the anthem disrespects the flag and disrespects the military is absurdly misguided and the longer we continue to perpetuate the charade of "the flag = the troops" the more entrenched this misguided sense of patriotism becomes. I actually find it pretty dangerous because it deflects the conversation away from topics that actually matter.

Have a military appreciation day around Veterans Day in November if it's important for sports leagues to continue to have a link between the leagues and the military but let's stop this nonsense of parading giant flags out before every sporting event and dissecting everyone's response to it.

I’m not going to argue your beliefs about what you think disrespects what or what you personally believe is misguided patriotism....you’re entitled to your opinion. I was raised in a military family and I have my own and I’ll leave it at that.

Like I said, do away with it if you want, wouldn’t offend me...but it only hurts the Armed Forces IMO.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The national anthem is a banal celebration of patriotism that transcends politics, not a forced salute to some Great Leader or Communist Party.

It's an expression of Civil Society.

We need it now more than ever if we're not going to f***ing kill each other in the streets.

Incidentally, if you think America itself is distasteful or even evil, expand your reading list, because you are woefully lacking historical perspective.

wild isn’t it? Seems so counterintuitive when you analyze it. This country needs to unify, not further divide, yet what was once a rallying cry for the Nation has been turned into a tool to divide it.

Now even reasonable people are like, “just do away with it” because it will cause less friction. Probably just further weakens the foundation of our Country. Russia and China are laughing giddily right now as we do the hard work for them.

 

[Ridley Simon]

What part about the National Anthem is offensive again? I totally missed it

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Oh Lord.

I have zero idea what he's rambling about...?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

What part about the National Anthem is offensive again? I totally missed it

Was going to respond but deleted my response. Not looking to derail the thread convo or bring us too far off topic. I have my opinions and others have theirs and it's all good.

 

[g00n]

The entire point of the protest is "America" means different things to different people. Even American citizens who don't see it the same way we do, every day, through no fault of their own.

I get why they protest. I'm OK with it. The problem is 100% in the mind. For everyone who has issue with it. There is no physical threat whatsoever to you if you don't like it. Simply ignore it if you can't find any meaning in it. I understand why some are upset by the protests, too. But again, it's mental. Pay tribute your own way.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I have zero idea what he's rambling about...?

TJRS stands for The John Riggins Show. He’s coming back to radio. Hide the women and children.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[Corby78]

The entire point of the protest is "America" means different things to different people. Even American citizens who don't see it the same way we do, every day, through no fault of their own.

I get why they protest. I'm OK with it. The problem is 100% in the mind. For everyone who has issue with it. There is no physical threat whatsoever to you if you don't like it. Simply ignore it if you can't find any meaning in it. I understand why some are upset by the protests, too. But again, it's mental. Pay tribute your own way.

this contradicts itself. If it’s all in the mind and we’re all supposed to find our own meaning and pay tribute our own way, then the protests have no meaning. The protest only has meaning if you go against what the general public deams is true. Kneeling means nothing if we all have our own way to pay tribute. In society there are understood norms for respect and disrespect. You can’t have a protest if nobody cares.

it’s like Jordan Peterson says, you can’t have a discussion if you only are trying to not offend.

 

[g00n]

this contradicts itself. If it’s all in the mind and we’re all supposed to find our own meaning and pay tribute our own way, then the protests have no meaning. The protest only has meaning if you go against what the general public deams is true. Kneeling means nothing if we all have our own way to pay tribute. In society there are understood norms for respect and disrespect. You can’t have a protest if nobody cares.

it’s like Jordan Peterson says, you can’t have a discussion if you only are trying to not offend.

It's not contradictory it's true. The meaning of anything symbolic is subjective. People can disagree on the validity of a protest, understand its meaning, and still ignore it. Or they can be affected by it in ways other than being offended and taking up opposition. Or someone can simply find more meaning in what they're doing vs what they're expected to do, regardless of what others think.

If I'm sitting at home and some guy 500 miles away is kneeling for 3-4 minutes during a song, how has it REALLY affected my life other than how I perceive it? This is no different than a Muslim praying after a soccer goal. If I'm anti-Muslim maybe that offends me somehow, but does it do me any real harm? When the song is over or the celebration ends, what's really changed for me? My mind. That's it.

How EFFECTIVE a protest is depends on how well your message is conveyed, understood, and adopted....not necessarily how much it pisses people off and turns them off. For the people out there who don't see America the same way you or I do, the protest has a lot of meaning. We don't see the same things in it they do. Yet we can just as easily ignore it, or focus on the song and flag and our own interpretation. Or, we can TRY to see it their way, without being assholes about it.

Jordan Peterson cloaks conservativism and western religion in fake logic that goes from A to B to X. He's one of those guys who thinks he's smart enough to turn faith into scientific rigor. That statement about offensiveness being requisite to discussion, as written above, is so absurd it doesn't even merit debate, and anyone experienced in conflict resolution or hostage negotiation or just about ANY job other than phony intellectual will tell you the same.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Don’t show the anthems on TV or talk about them. The NBA ratings are shit now for a reason.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

TJRS stands for The John Riggins Show. He’s coming back to radio. Hide the women and children.

 

[Hivemind]

Just for context, I'm a vet and my wife is an active duty officer and much of our family has served and continues to serve in various branches of the military. It's important to remember that the military takes an oath to defend the constitution, not the flag, and making the flag the focal link between military service and patriotism continues to cloud who and what the military actually serves and continues to provide a visual marker that people can draw a line in sand against. The argument that kneeling for the anthem disrespects the flag and disrespects the military is absurdly misguided and the longer we continue to perpetuate the charade of "the flag = the troops" the more entrenched this misguided sense of patriotism becomes. I actually find it pretty dangerous because it deflects the conversation away from topics that actually matter.

Have a military appreciation day around Veterans Day in November if it's important for sports leagues to continue to have a link between the leagues and the military but let's stop this nonsense of parading giant flags out before every sporting event and dissecting everyone's response to it.

100% this.