Waiver players

[Brock Radunske]

I really hope Brannen makes it. We only have 1 shooter on the back end and he can't hit the net *cough* Dion *cough*

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I think Lou could replace any player we might lose easily in the same process. We won't likely lose anyone. Easily replaced if it was to happen though. Its favourable if we lose a player actually i think.

That said, i would not expose Carrick to waivers. He's a good homegrown 4th line center that with all things being equal after the preseason i would give preference to sam.

I personally see him as a nice fit for our 4th line center this year.

 

[Pholus]

I think Lou could replace any player we might lose easily in the same process. We won't likely lose anyone. Easily replaced if it was to happen though. Its favourable if we lose a player actually i think.

That said, i would not expose Carrick to waivers. He's a good homegrown 4th line center that with all things being equal after the preseason i would give preference to sam.

I personally see him as a nice fit for our 4th line center this year.

Really? Please tell me which of these proven NHLers he is better than:

Kadri
Holland
Bozak
Spaling
Matthias
Arcobello

I see 6 NHL-caliber centers who are better than Carrick right now. I suppose Matthias and Arcobello could play wing, but I still don't see Carrick stealing a spot from any of the other 4 guys (I know Carrick can play wing too, but there's just as much competition there, more so if Boyes gets offered a contract).

 

[Quares27]

Really? Please tell me which of these proven NHLers he is better than:

Kadri
Holland
Bozak
Spaling
Matthias
Arcobello

I see 6 NHL-caliber centers who are better than Carrick right now. I suppose Matthias and Arcobello could play wing, but I still don't see Carrick stealing a spot from any of the other 4 guys (I know Carrick can play wing too, but there's just as much competition there, more so if Boyes gets offered a contract).

Spaling and Matthias don't play center, and the point is that Carrick could have been a solid, young, cheap 4th liner center for us, but instead will be gone for nothing. Chances are only Holland and Kadri will be here 1-2 years from now anyway, so Carrick could have fit in nicely on the bottom 6. This is what happens when you don't give any younger guys a chance on the roster - you lose them for nothing. If there's one thing this management group has made clear its that they will gladly give away young players/prospects for absolutely nothing to give spots to older players, and somehow this is considered a smart rebuild.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Really? Please tell me which of these proven NHLers he is better than:

Kadri
Holland
Bozak
Spaling
Matthias
Arcobello

I see 6 NHL-caliber centers who are better than Carrick right now. I suppose Matthias and Arcobello could play wing, but I still don't see Carrick stealing a spot from any of the other 4 guys (I know Carrick can play wing too, but there's just as much competition there, more so if Boyes gets offered a contract).

Pretty much of what Quares27 says about this. Carrick is a hard working player would look nice with grabner and they cod kill penalties together. These players are all pretty versatile also. Bozak being moved with a whip thrown in to make him play defense for a third rounder would solve him taking up a spot. Maybe they can get more for him i don't know. Carrick was a good penalty killer ladt year for the Marlies and he can play wing also if Gauthier becomes in the mix later. Its better than keeping these 1 year guys for my thinking. Someone might grab Carrick if he is waived and i wouldn't like it.

 

[VanW27]

Spaling and Matthias don't play center, and the point is that Carrick could have been a solid, young, cheap 4th liner center for us, but instead will be gone for nothing. Chances are only Holland and Kadri will be here 1-2 years from now anyway, so Carrick could have fit in nicely on the bottom 6. This is what happens when you don't give any younger guys a chance on the roster - you lose them for nothing. If there's one thing this management group has made clear its that they will gladly give away young players/prospects for absolutely nothing to give spots to older players, and somehow this is considered a smart rebuild.

Developing 4th liners is not part of a rebuild. Who cares if a below average 4th line centre/spare player is home-grown or someone you signed to a cheap deal as a UFA.

I don't see Carrick as an NHL caliber player, he struggled mightily to play 6 minutes a game last season and even if you think he is, losing an injury fill in 4th liner for nothing is not bad management, its moving on from a player that has no role with the team. Not to mention the fact that Carrick would not be claimed on waivers regardless.

There will be many players superior to Carrick that go on waivers before the season starts.

 

[Pholus]

Spaling and Matthias don't play center, and the point is that Carrick could have been a solid, young, cheap 4th liner center for us, but instead will be gone for nothing. Chances are only Holland and Kadri will be here 1-2 years from now anyway, so Carrick could have fit in nicely on the bottom 6. This is what happens when you don't give any younger guys a chance on the roster - you lose them for nothing. If there's one thing this management group has made clear its that they will gladly give away young players/prospects for absolutely nothing to give spots to older players, and somehow this is considered a smart rebuild.

1. Spaling and Matthias are both listed as centers on the Maple Leafs website.

2. You're assuming he'll be picked up off of waivers, when every year there are dozens of players who are either outright better than Carrick or have more potential and pass through waivers unclaimed.

3. The players/prospects that management has given up on are 1) mediocre at best and 2) have not exactly impressed in their development, to the point where management feels confident that these players have no future with the Leafs.

For a more complete counter to your viewpoint, see this post:

Developing 4th liners is not part of a rebuild. Who cares if a below average 4th line centre/spare player is home-grown or someone you signed to a cheap deal as a UFA.

I don't see Carrick as an NHL caliber player, he struggled mightily to play 6 minutes a game last season and even if you think he is, losing an injury fill in 4th liner for nothing is not bad management, its moving on from a player that has no role with the team. Not to mention the fact that Carrick would not be claimed on waivers regardless.

There will be many players superior to Carrick that go on waivers before the season starts.

 

[deletethis]

Regarding Carrick, I'm starting to get irritated by "spreadsheet" fans dismissing each and every prospect based on his PPG in the AHL and in amateur leagues. Check out the AHL numbers of the not-so-easily-replaced role players like Bickell, Kruger and Shaw in Chicago.

 

[sIDEsHOW93]

Regarding Carrick, I'm starting to get irritated by "spreadsheet" fans dismissing each and every prospect based on his PPG in the AHL and in amateur leagues. Check out the AHL numbers of the not-so-easily-replaced role players like Bickell, Kruger and Shaw in Chicago.

This. He needs NHL time to develop further. What I would do is play him in the AHL until the trade deadline and use him as 4LC after.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Regarding Carrick, I'm starting to get irritated by "spreadsheet" fans dismissing each and every prospect based on his PPG in the AHL and in amateur leagues. Check out the AHL numbers of the not-so-easily-replaced role players like Bickell, Kruger and Shaw in Chicago.

What i said originally that got me jumped on was that i wouldn't like to lose a homegrown prospect that is developing nicely. I don't know why fans start hating on prospects because of points alone either.

 

[Pholus]

What i said originally that got me jumped on was that i wouldn't like to lose a homegrown prospect that is developing nicely. I don't know why fans start hating on prospects because of points alone either.

Sorry if I came off as being too aggressive. I don't hate Carrick (although I might not completely agree that he is 'developing nicely'), but if the only reason to keep him around is because of where he was born, that's as bad as Don Cherry saying European players are lesser than Canadians.

Personally, I would've thought that Carrick would be coming into camp this year and likely winning as spot as the 12/13 forward, however I don't know if he can do that now with the amount of veteran guys who have been signed this off-season.

This. He needs NHL time to develop further. What I would do is play him in the AHL until the trade deadline and use him as 4LC after.

I'm not sure if there is any other option available now, so yeah. Unless the Leafs manage to unload some of the guys the have signed before the season starts.

 

[Leafsman]

Anyone suggesting PAP being waived is crazy.

 

[Mess]

Anyone suggesting PAP being waived is crazy.

If Boyes, Glenncross or Setoguchi takes his spot he might.

 

[ChrisCall]

Regarding Carrick, I'm starting to get irritated by "spreadsheet" fans dismissing each and every prospect based on his PPG in the AHL and in amateur leagues. Check out the AHL numbers of the not-so-easily-replaced role players like Bickell, Kruger and Shaw in Chicago.

They made him Captain for a reason. I don't want to lose him. He's valuable.

 

[Mess]

They made him Captain for a reason. I don't want to lose him. He's valuable.

Being Marlies captain only has an impact if he is on the Marlies.

 

[Leafsman]

If Boyes, Glenncross or Setoguchi takes his spot he might.

Babcock was the one that recruited him to the Leafs. You think Babcock is going to turn around and cut him??? Not going to happen. Babcock recruited him here for a reason and there is no way he isn't going to give him every shot to prove it.

 

[Mess]

Babcock was the one that recruited him to the Leafs. You think Babcock is going to turn around and cut him??? Not going to happen. Babcock recruited him here for a reason and there is no way he isn't going to give him every shot to prove it.

Pick 2 of the these 5 players as to who you think will make the team.

Parenteau, Arcobello, Boyes, Glencross, Setoguchi.

Its likely (before other trades coming) that it might be those 5 fighting for 2 roster spots.

If I picked 2, I would prefer Boyes and Glencross the 2 players Lou Lam our new GM brought in.

 

[Leafsman]

Pick 2 of the these 5 players as to who you think will make the team.

Parenteau, Arcobello, Boyes, Glencross, Setoguchi.

Its likely (before other trades coming) that it might be those 5 fighting for 2 roster spots.

If I picked 2, I would prefer Boyes and Glencross the 2 players Lou Lam our new GM brought in.

Why? They're not going to waive Parenteau so it's irrelevant. I'll pick when preseason is further in.

Parenteau is not in the same position as those others! I would also say Arcobello is safe too. They're not going to sign these guys to 1 year deals then waive them before the season starts.

If you think Babcock is the kind of guy to personally recruit a player only to cut him before the season starts - you're crazy!

They offered both those guys a year deal, they'll give them the year!

 

[Mess]

Why? They're not going to waive Parenteau so it's irrelevant. I'll pick when preseason is further in.

Parenteau is not in the same position as those others! I would also say Arcobello is safe too. They're not going to sign these guys to 1 year deals then waive them before the season starts.

If you think Babcock is the kind of guy to personally recruit a player only to cut him before the season starts - you're crazy!

They offered both those guys a year deal, they'll give them the year!

(11 forwards) JVR, Bozak, Kadri, Lupul, Matthias, Winnik, Komorav, Holland, Panik, Grabner, Spaling (likely to make team)

That leaves only 1 more active forward and two spares roster spots

So that means 2 or 3 max of Paranteau, Arcobello, Glencoss, Boyes, Setoguchi

If you want Marlies or players like Carrick to make it then you can only have 2 other from above.

So basically your saying all the PTO players are out because players with contract = NHL roster spots.

Why did Lou invite the 3 PTO forwards to camp if there is no vacancy for spots?

 

[Leafsman]

(11 forwards) JVR, Bozak, Kadri, Lupul, Matthias, Winnik, Komorav, Holland, Panik, Grabner, Spaling (likely to make team)

That leaves only 1 more active forward and two spares roster spots

So that means 2 or 3 max of Paranteau, Arcobello, Glencoss, Boyes, Setoguchi

If you want Marlies or players like Carrick to make it then you can only have 2 other from above.

So basically your saying all the PTO players are out because players with contract = NHL roster spots.

If they're that good, they'll make room via trade. They're not going to just waive two players they just signed. That'd be a serious knock towards this mgmt's credibility.

 

[Mess]

If they're that good, they'll make room via trade. They're not going to just waive two players they just signed. That'd be a serious knock towards this mgmt's credibility.

But management changed.

Dubas signed players like Paranteau and Arcobello & then Shanny hired Lou Lam as GM

Lamoriello brought in his guys Boyes, Glencross and Setoguchi and they were offered PTO only because until the Grabner trade there was no contract spots available to sign them.

Now Lou made a trade to make new contract spots so you have to think that his unsigned PTO guys have a chance to make the team and in order for some to make it then others with contracts already would have to go.

 

[Leafsman]

But management changed.

Dubas signed players like Paranteau and Arcobello & then Shanny hired Lou Lam as GM

Lamoriello brought in his guys Boyes, Glencross and Setoguchi and they were offered PTO only because until the Grabner trade there was no contract spots available to sign them.

Now Lou made a trade to make new contract spots so you have to think that his unsigned PTO guys have a chance to make the team and in order for some to make it then others with contracts already would have to go.

They are not going to waive a guy they just offered a 1 year deal to before the season starts. The only way that would ever happen is if the two players literally **** the bed, by that I mean have a nap on the ice during game play and **** themselves.

A contract is a TWO-way agreement. A team offers a player a chance to play in return for a player playing there. Shanny, Babcock, Lou and the rest are all proud and honourable people who likely would be happy enough with handshakes let alone contracts.

The players offered 1-years will be given 1 years and not cut before the season even begins - No way.

If there is too many good players that a spot or two needs to be made then the honourable hockey guys will make honourable hockey deals to make it happen.

Thanks all things holy that the Leafs have more honour than hockey fans. We offered those guys a deal and they'll get it.

By your logic, no agreement is safe so every single player should be on the chopping block - you just happen to personally like these guys the Least or have some personal Last in-First out policy.

 

[NotSince67*]

I don't think there's any guarantee that Carrick gets claimed. As I metioned before he'd have to go to the claiming club's main roster and couldn't be sent down without waivers and the LEafs would have first rights to claim him.

There's certainly a risk he does get claimed but I think there's an opportunity to sneak him down if he gets sent on a day where many other clubs send players down in bunches and there's a lot of players to potentially claim. They'd have to pick Carrick out of the pile instead of sneaking him down when there's not as many players available on the wire.

 

[UllmansTiger]

By your logic, no agreement is safe so every single player should be on the chopping block - you just happen to personally like these guys the Least or have some personal Last in-First out policy.

The agreement is safe no matter what, the player will get paid whether they play for the Leafs or the Marlies ( or if they're waived and claimed, by some other NHL club). I agree that it's unlikely one of the newly signed players will be waived now but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

More likely a trade would happen to clear that up but not until camp winds down, one way or the other.

 

[Mess]

They are not going to waive a guy they just offered a 1 year deal to before the season starts. The only way that would ever happen is if the two players literally **** the bed, by that I mean have a nap on the ice during game play and **** themselves.

A contract is a TWO-way agreement. A team offers a player a chance to play in return for a player playing there. Shanny, Babcock, Lou and the rest are all proud and honourable people who likely would be happy enough with handshakes let alone contracts.

The players offered 1-years will be given 1 years and not cut before the season even begins - No way.

If there is too many good players that a spot or two needs to be made then the honourable hockey guys will make honourable hockey deals to make it happen.

Thanks all things holy that the Leafs have more honour than hockey fans. We offered those guys a deal and they'll get it.

By your logic, no agreement is safe so every single player should be on the chopping block - you just happen to personally like these guys the Least or have some personal Last in-First out policy.

Last year Leafs signed Petri Kontiola to a 1 year deal and then waived him to the AHL before he voided his contract to return to the KHL. They also traded for Frattin and signed him to a new 2 year deal and waived him to start the season.

There would be no reason to invite PTO players to camp because all spots on the roster are already taken with contracts.

I was just guessing the bottom of the depth chart where the new guys just added reside.. Many of the forwards are safe from being waived as we all know JVR, Kadri, Bozak, Lupul, etc are not going to get beaten out for jobs by Boyes or Glencross.

Now of course PTO players are going to have beat out players with contracts but that is a given from the start, because they were already under contract prior to Lou Lam inviting him PTO tryouts.

By your logic all the PTO will be released because there is no spots otherwise, baring a trade of another player for futures.