Proposal: W. Nylander for M. Tkachuk

[Lunatik]

He’s just talking **** cause it probably makes him feel like a big man.

He already provided 3 examples.

 

[Mugzy97]

I would strongly consider this trade. We are very deep on RW and not so much on LW, plus we could use a player just like Tkachuk. Only issue is that Nylander ceiling could end up much higher IMO and that is a risky move.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Last time I saw Leafs fans' evaluating the value of Nylander, it ended up being Pastrnak + McAvoy ++ . So yeah...

Cool story.

Source? I’d love to see who said that so I can avoid their evaluations in the future.

This sounds made up, show your work.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/boston-toronto.2370381/#post-134602815
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/boston-toronto.2370381/page-3#post-134606393
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/boston-toronto.2370381/page-7#post-134617611

He already provided 3 examples.

I think its actually 2 examples. But, more importantly I've seen us make this kind of challenge before only to have the poster in question being able to address the challenge with a response. I don't think we like looking in the mirror when it reflects so badly on us. Doesn't mean the mirror is lying though. Not sure how we can portray ourselves as being the gold standard in objectivity, but I don't expect us to change.

 

[shortfuze]

He already provided 3 examples.

He literally posted a few minutes before I responded to the other guy. And I was just being a pain in the ass about the “being a big man stuff”. But those were some pretty brutal trade requests. Pasta+mccavoy++ is ridiculous.

 

[horner]

Wait wait wait, Tkachuk is the same quality of player to be worth a 1 for 1 but won't cost as much to sign? Logically, in what world would that be?

What you think you can get Tkachuk for 3 million dollars?

Really wow.
Tkachuk will probably sign for 6 mil
Nylander will probably sign for 8.5 mil

Hopefully that clears it up for you.

 

[mammothCacti]

Really wow.
Tkachuk will probably sign for 6 mil
Nylander will probably sign for 8.5 mil

Hopefully that clears it up for you.

The only way Nylander gets 8.5 mil is if he drags the Leafs kicking and screaming into the Eastern Conference or Stanley Cup finals.

They won't give Draisaitl money to a guy that hasn't played as much C and hasn't scored as much.

Look to Ehlers and Pastrnak as comparables with maybe 0.5 mil more as he can project to center.

But you also think the difference between Tkachuk and Nylander a contracts will be 2-3 mil too though then right?

 

[FluffyMcAvoy]

Hint, they don't exist

Yes they do. I provided 3 examples.

 

[Liferleafer]

Really wow.
Tkachuk will probably sign for 6 mil
Nylander will probably sign for 8.5 mil

Hopefully that clears it up for you.

I'll eat my hat if Nylander gets 8.5.

 

[MattySnipes]

Nylander born in Calgary, Alberta will be our 2c next year! Tkachuk is a really good player with many tools to his game. Nylander is just superb when it comes to offensive awareness (shot + pass) along with his skating & edges. He is getting better on being defensively aware with his recent stretch of games playing C. Once he puts it all together it's hard to choose Tkachuk over Nylander.

Both teams are happy with their respective player. Only reason I would want Tkachuk is because of the connection between him & Matty and the agitating & two-way ability to his game - but you can also make a case that Matty & Willy have dynamite chemistry and a great connection since being paired up last year.

IMO, Calgary would have to add because of Willy's ability to play both forward positions (C/W)

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Yes they do. I provided 3 examples.

First one you posted was Pastrnak or Mcavoy, not both.

The second example was in a thread where both sides were slinging shit the entire time, wouldn't take that too seriously. Should we take the Nylander for Spooner seriously? Or Spooner and McQuiad for Matthews? As those were all said too.

Third was obviously overexaggerating to prove a point (I.e. Nylander isn't available).

 

[FluffyMcAvoy]

First one you posted was Pastrnak or Mcavoy, not both.

The second example was in a thread where both sides were slinging **** the entire time, wouldn't take that too seriously. Should we take the Nylander for Spooner seriously? Or Spooner and McQuiad for Matthews? As those were all said too.

Third was obviously overexaggerating to prove a point (I.e. Nylander isn't available).

I only included the first one because even Pasta+ or McAvoy+ is not reasonable. Pasta and Nylander were taken in the same draft, they are of a similar skill-set, and Pasta has more points to date. So that should be a wash. McAvoy has quite a future ahead of him. Even though he is still young, McAvoy+ should be landing players of much higher caliber than Nylander.

As for the other examples, the trade(s) is/are of course not happening and neither of players are available. We simply share the opinions of how player values compare. And the point of my comment was that some Leafs fans are so overprotective of Nylander, that the "equivalent" value would be Pasta + McAvoy ++. Therefore, implying that Tkachuk for Nylander discussion will not end well

 

[Liferleafer]

I only included the first one because even Pasta+ or McAvoy+ is not reasonable. Pasta and Nylander were taken in the same draft, they are of a similar skill-set, and Pasta has more points to date. So that should be a wash. McAvoy has quite a future ahead of him. Even though he is still young, McAvoy+ should be landing players of much higher caliber than Nylander.

As for the other examples, the trade(s) is/are of course not happening and neither of players are available. We simply share the opinions of how player values compare. And the point of my comment was that some Leafs fans are so overprotective of Nylander, that the "equivalent" value would be Pasta + McAvoy ++. Therefore, implying that Tkachuk for Nylander discussion will not end well

Guess i might as well put a little context into this pissing contest. The bolded may be correct now, but you are talking about a post made in a rhread started in July of 2017.....so that means the statement "it would take MacAvoy+" means Nylander coming off a 81 game 61 point rookie season for MacAvoy with 6 whole NHL games under his belt. As for the Pasta statement, they were pretty close in production...but Pasta would hold more value as a winger...but it gets a little closer when Nylander's center potential is added.

 

[treple13]

Completely biased, but no chance. The Flames complete collapse the last few games since Tkachuk got hurt shows me this team doesn't have ENOUGH Tkachuks. Flames would be worse team with Nylander replacing him. Tkachuk's value isn't just points. He's been part of the Flames shutdown line and has honestly been carrying that line through much of the year (especially when Backlund struggled mid-season). He is one of the best in the league at drawing penalties without taking them himself. He really wasn't given much offensive opportunity during the first half of the year and once they started utilizing him more there near the end of the season, his numbers started taking off. His numbers would be even better if Backlund/Frolik didn't have such trouble (or bad luck) finishing this year.

I think he's more valuable than Nylander. I'm biased. Value is probably similar enough, so both teams can just say no and move on.

I do think you'd get more Leaf fans willing to do this deal than Flames fans if that means anything, even if both numbers are very low.

 

[FluffyMcAvoy]

Guess i might as well put a little context into this pissing contest. The bolded may be correct now, but you are talking about a post made in a rhread started in July of 2017.....so that means the statement "it would take MacAvoy+" means Nylander coming off a 81 game 61 point rookie season for MacAvoy with 6 whole NHL games under his belt. As for the Pasta statement, they were pretty close in production...but Pasta would hold more value as a winger...but it gets a little closer when Nylander's center potential is added.

McAvoy was thrown into 6 playoff games without any prior pro experience. And he absolutely dominated while being second in time on ice after Chara. You can kind of see how fans could get somewhat excited about him.

 

[Liferleafer]

McAvoy was thrown into 6 playoff games without any prior pro experience. And he absolutely dominated while being second in time on ice after Chara. You can kind of see how fans could get somewhat excited about him.

Of course...much like we were excited about Nylander's 81 games that season.

 

[Patagonia]

Nylander has a much higher ceiling (not a Leaf fan). Tkachuk would be a tremendous addition in adding scrappiness and scoring, but this is a similar role to Kadri. Not sure if either team makes this trade as they both play important roles and part of the future of their teams. Flames need to add to make this work, but likely both teams pass.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

First one you posted was Pastrnak or Mcavoy, not both.

The second example was in a thread where both sides were slinging **** the entire time, wouldn't take that too seriously. Should we take the Nylander for Spooner seriously? Or Spooner and McQuiad for Matthews? As those were all said too.

Third was obviously overexaggerating to prove a point (I.e. Nylander isn't available).

IDK. If you browse (more broadly) through those threads there were plenty of "McAvoy ++ and we might take it into consideration", "McAvoy not a top pair", "Starts with McAvoy + a huge add". Of course, there was "JVR/Bozak for top 4" type threads, etc. (e.g., a bit of amnesia about our Kessel Sweepstakes threads).

McAvoy was thrown into 6 playoff games without any prior pro experience. And he absolutely dominated while being second in time on ice after Chara. You can kind of see how fans could get somewhat excited about him.

You probably enjoyed the McAvoy to Luke Schenn parallels.

 

[96]

What the f***ing hell. No f***ing way. Not even f***ing close.

Holy shit

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I only included the first one because even Pasta+ or McAvoy+ is not reasonable. Pasta and Nylander were taken in the same draft, they are of a similar skill-set, and Pasta has more points to date. So that should be a wash. McAvoy has quite a future ahead of him. Even though he is still young, McAvoy+ should be landing players of much higher caliber than Nylander.

As for the other examples, the trade(s) is/are of course not happening and neither of players are available. We simply share the opinions of how player values compare. And the point of my comment was that some Leafs fans are so overprotective of Nylander, that the "equivalent" value would be Pasta + McAvoy ++. Therefore, implying that Tkachuk for Nylander discussion will not end well

At the time of that post Mcavoy had only played 7 or so games in the NHL. He was far from a sure thing or proven at the NHL level so I don't think a plus on McAvoy was unreasonable at all.

Agreed on Pastrnk, they are pretty much a wash. Pasta has produced more (albeit with extremely good linemates) while Nylander most likely ends up playing a more important position. Close enough

I just think that the people you quoted were either exaggerating to prove a point or were in an extremely small minority. Leaf fans obviously don't think Nylander is worth Pastrnak++ let alone the plus being a highly touted young defender.

Saying things like you did in the original reply I made just stokes the fire and starts a pissing match.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

IDK. If you browse (more broadly) through those threads there were plenty of "McAvoy ++ and we might take it into consideration", "McAvoy not a top pair", "Starts with McAvoy + a huge add". Of course, there was "JVR/Bozak for top 4" type threads, etc. (e.g., a bit of amnesia about our Kessel Sweepstakes threads).



You probably enjoyed the McAvoy to Luke Schenn parallels.

At the time of those threads McAvoy had hardly played in the NHL while Nylander just put up a 60 point rookie season against extremely high QoC. A plus wasn't too crazy considering that.

 

[FluffyMcAvoy]

At the time of that post Mcavoy had only played 7 or so games in the NHL. He was far from a sure thing or proven at the NHL level so I don't think a plus on McAvoy was unreasonable at all.

Agreed on Pastrnk, they are pretty much a wash. Pasta has produced more (albeit with extremely good linemates) while Nylander most likely ends up playing a more important position. Close enough

I just think that the people you quoted were either exaggerating to prove a point or were in an extremely small minority. Leaf fans obviously don't think Nylander is worth Pastrnak++ let alone the plus being a highly touted young defender.

Saying things like you did in the original reply I made just stokes the fire and starts a pissing match.

Of course they were a small minority.

It is starting to look more and more that the Bruins will be facing the Leafs in the first round. And the pissing matches will turn into a full-on pissing war :-D

Really looking forward to the series. Both Nylander and Pastrnak will be shining!

 

[Brock Radunske]

Being a Leafs fan.
To me nobody adds
Both players bring entangibles that win games.
Tkachuk is something we don't have..

Tkachuk Mathews marner
Jvr Kadri kapanen
Hyman Bozak brown
Johnson Marleau grundstrom

Making this trade would allow us to sign jvr and Bozak.
Would also give us a player that we have needed.
Tkachuk won't cost as much to sign

Did anyone else read this as a William Shatner read poem?

 

[Potty John]

I'd say equal 1 for 1 swap, but each team is gonna value their player more.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

At the time of that post Mcavoy had only played 7 or so games in the NHL. He was far from a sure thing

At the time of those threads McAvoy had hardly played in the NHL while Nylander just put up a 60 point rookie season against extremely high QoC. A plus wasn't too crazy considering that.

Looks like McAvoy was a sure thing, but we just didn't know it at the time. That's not particularly surprising actually.

In this kind of situation, its always good to do a role reversal. I wonder how we'd argue this if it was our stud prospect defender and he had played really well in 7 playoff games? I'd imagine we would be howling if other fans suggested we needed a big plus to swing the trade, or be pissed with people suggesting he can't be a top 4. To suggest otherwise I think is disingenuous.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Of course they were a small minority.

Not sure about the small minority. I looked through a sample of some of the pages. What I saw was about 7 out of 10 Leaf fans agreeing that is was a dreadful trade and big pluses were needed.

Sure, that's absolutely not empirical, and yes, its a small sample.

Yet, I'd have to wonder if its really a small minority (i.e. 5%). I think we can say with certainty that its something we like to say, and its a good deflection.