Prospect Info: Ville Heinola, LD, Finland (20th Overall)

[surixon]

There was no mention of an out clause. Jets assigned him to Luuko. There has been no mention of him having an out clause AFAIK. Haven't seen even a peep about that. This is Jets decision.

Someone mentioned that it was standard with Finish first round picks or something since he had a year left on a contract in Finland.

 

[KingBogo]

There was no mention of an out clause. Jets assigned him to Luuko. There has been no mention of him having an out clause AFAIK. Haven't seen even a peep about that. This is Jets decision.

That's they way I read the situation as well. Team and player came to a mutual decision.

 

[LucianoBorsato]

Well now, looks like Niku is now the top Finnish Moose D man!

But who is the best Finnish player left on the Moose, Niku or Vesalainen?

 

[Daximus]

There was no mention of an out clause. Jets assigned him to Luuko. There has been no mention of him having an out clause AFAIK. Haven't seen even a peep about that. This is Jets decision.

Ville Heinola - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

You can always check cap friendly. Pretty much any Euro players that sign an ELC will have an out clause built into the first year of their contract. I think it is actually defined in the CBA under section 11.19

The Jets assigned him there but likely under his request. The Jets have zero choice if he exercises this option.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Coming back to Finland is fine since he has no trouble with small ice. Doesn't matter where he plays until he is physically ready.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Someone mentioned that it was standard with Finish first round picks or something since he had a year left on a contract in Finland.

Actually, I thought it was just the opposite. 1st rd picks could be kept in the AHL. Later rd picks had to be sent back.

The tweet said that he was assigned by the Jets, not that he was reclaimed by his Finnish team.

Whatever. I will console myself that it at least isn't the KHL.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ville Heinola - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

You can always check cap friendly. Pretty much any Euro players that sign an ELC will have an out clause built into the first year of their contract. I think it is actually defined in the CBA under section 11.19

The Jets assigned him there but likely under his request. The Jets have zero choice if he exercises this option.

K, thanks. I hadn't seen that before, or heard it mentioned anywhere in his case.

That seems to have become very common recently. I don't think it was even a few years ago. I don't like it. I think NHL teams should be resisting it. Being able to send 18 YO to the AHL was a distinct advantage to drafting Euro players.

 

[Daximus]

Actually, I thought it was just the opposite. 1st rd picks could be kept in the AHL. Later rd picks had to be sent back.

The tweet said that he was assigned by the Jets, not that he was reclaimed by his Finnish team.

Whatever. I will console myself that it at least isn't the KHL.

9th overall pick Kravstov has one too.

Vitali Kravtsov - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I don't think it matters what round you are drafted in the CBA stipulates every player not drafted out of North America has the option of including one in their contract. By that definition Auston Matthews could have included a Euro out clause in his ELC as well.

 

[Daximus]

K, thanks. I hadn't seen that before, or heard it mentioned anywhere in his case.

That seems to have become very common recently. I don't think it was even a few years ago. I don't like it. I think NHL teams should be resisting it. Being able to send 18 YO to the AHL was a distinct advantage to drafting Euro players.

Yeah it looks like that advantage is dropping off. Laine and Puljujarvi never included one in their contracts. Neither did Kakko. Seems like it's more a thing for players who are unsure if they are NHL calibre yet and don't want to be stuck making bare minimum in the AHL their first year. For instance Victor Soderstrom also included one in his contract. Seems to be on a player by player basis. NHL teams have absolutely no say in it either. Like you can't negotiate it out of the contract, no matter what contract that player signs they have the option of including a euro out clause in it.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

9th overall pick Kravstov has one too.

Vitali Kravtsov - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I don't think it matters what round you are drafted in the CBA stipulates every player not drafted out of North America has the option of including one in their contract. By that definition Auston Matthews could have included a Euro out clause in his ELC as well.

I've thought the same for some time, but the disconnect is that this is apparently an arrangement with Liiga and doesn't apply to all Euro leagues.

Finnish posters have repeated for some time that Liiga players drafted after the first round have to be returned to their teams and can't be sent to the AHL.

This allegation if true applies only to Finlands Liiga league, thus wouldn't apply to Kravtsov.

We only have a few Finnish posters word on this, but as so many have claimed this to be true, it must be rooted in some reality.

Would be nice if one of them took the lead on this and provided some proof that this is true.

 

[sleb]

That seems to have become very common recently. I don't think it was even a few years ago. I don't like it. I think NHL teams should be resisting it.

Why should they resist? AHL isn't developing much, unless the player has hard time with culture shock or adjusting to smaller rink. Sure there are a lot of skill and potential in some players, but most of the AHL is just plugs grinding hard, without good coaching which would help players develop.

Liiga is a development league. Where do you think Heinola got his skills in the first place, on the flight over Atlantic?

We only have a few Finnish posters word on this, but as so many have claimed this to be true, it must be rooted in some reality.

Would be nice if one of them took the lead on this and provided some proof that this is true.

Finnish here, and I've never heard of such thing.

 

[Daximus]

I've thought the same for some time, but the disconnect is that this is apparently an arrangement with Liiga and doesn't apply to all Euro leagues.

Finnish posters have repeated for some time that Liiga players drafted after the first round have to be returned to their teams and can't be sent to the AHL.

This allegation if true applies only to Finlands Liiga league, thus wouldn't apply to Kravtsov.

We only have a few Finnish posters word on this, but as so many have claimed this to be true, it must be rooted in some reality.

Would be nice if one of them took the lead on this and provided some proof that this is true.

It's underlined in Section 11.19 in the CBA.

Basically any player signing an NHL contract from a Euro League (Liiga, SHL, KHL, NLA, DEL, Czech League) or any of their lower level leagues has the option of including a Euro out clause in the first year of their contract. It's really rare for anyone outside of ELC's to exercise it though. Both Soderstrom and Kravstov used their option to include one in their contracts and they came out of the SHL. Vesalainen had one in his contract and used it to go to the KHL, not even back to Liiga.

It really has nothing to do with Liiga, it is a players right to include one in the first year of their contract if they are coming from any league in Europe. Even if they played in the NHL, went to Europe and then signed into the NHL again they would have the right to include a Euro out clause in the first year and exercise it at their discretion. (an example of this would be if Jesse Puljujarvi signs with Edmonton again. He would have the right to include a Euro Out Clause in the first year of his new contract since he signed a new contract in Europe) Very few older players do as it likely raises some suspicion from the team signing them. But it seems younger players are exercising this right a lot more.

Igor Shesterkin - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Another example is Igor Shesterkin who also signed his ELC with NYR in the offseason. He is coming out of the KHL, but optioned to have a Euro Out Clause in the first year of his ELC.

The Euro Out Clause further states that the player has the right to sign with any team in Europe. Not just the one they came from, or even in the same league they came from (Like in Vesalainen's case). They also don't need to have a Euro contract in place, they can test Euro free agency and sign with any team that wants them in Europe, in any Euro league.

NHL teams have zero say in the matter. If the player wants one in their contract, they get it, and if they choose to exercise it at any time the NHL team must comply. The only sitpulation is that they must be signing out of a European league. So if a player is signing out of a CHL league or the USDP or the AHL. They cannot include one, even if they were born in Europe. Hence why under this rule, Auston Matthews could have included one in his ELC, since he was being signed out of the NLA.

 

[pucka lucka]

Should have been playing with the Jets.

 

[Halberdier]

Finnish here, and I've never heard of such thing.

...which has to mean there isn't such thing?

I have heard something about that, outside HfBoards. I don't have exact knowledge about the subject, but I think it's about ELC contracts for Finnish players.

At least back in the day there was indeed a separate contract between NHL and FEL. So it's not that contract between NHL and SEL or NHL and KHL must be exactly the same as contract between NHL and FEL.

 

[Gm0ney]

Well now, looks like Niku is now the top Finnish Moose D man!

FTFY. He's probably in the Top 3 of available defensemen in the whole org.

 

[Psych0dad]

Hoping that he has a bigger role in Finland so he can develop better, any chance of him being the #1 defenseman for his team? Maybe he can help them for a big playoff run and gain experience of winning.

 

[sipowicz]

But who is the best Finnish player left on the Moose, Niku or Vesalainen?

Not even close, Niku Hands down, even VESA has moved up to second bet Finn on the Moose after the departure of Heinola to Findland and Luto to the Jets!

 

[Just doink]

Lukko is is better than KHL right??

100% better with player developting, also less traveling

And actually, Lukko's defence squad is ridiculously good at Liiga level, would be top8 in the KHL also. Basicly all members are (B)national team level, at this point their 7nd dmen is Lukas Klok who play year after year at Czech National Team at EHTs.

I believe Ville play much less in Liiga than he played in NHL. That's something.

I see him 3rd best offensive* defender in Lukko.

*That's his primary role in Liiga.

 

[sleb]

...which has to mean there isn't such thing?

Eh? I only told you I've never heard of such practice. There might be, then again not.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Why should they resist? AHL isn't developing much, unless the player has hard time with culture shock or adjusting to smaller rink. Sure there are a lot of skill and potential in some players, but most of the AHL is just plugs grinding hard, without good coaching which would help players develop.

Liiga is a development league. Where do you think Heinola got his skills in the first place, on the flight over Atlantic?

Finnish here, and I've never heard of such thing.

If you read these forums with any regularity, that info is posted near daily by a Finn.

Most often someone replies that's it's untrue, with another Finn reponding that it is.

This thread alone has many. Here's the last that I replied too...

There's a good reason for quite a few posters alleging this to be true, considering that's how it is for the Finnish transfer agreement. Non-first round picks need to return to Liiga, whereas first round picks can be assigned to AHL as well.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

It's underlined in Section 11.19 in the CBA.

Basically any player signing an NHL contract from a Euro League (Liiga, SHL, KHL, NLA, DEL, Czech League) or any of their lower level leagues has the option of including a Euro out clause in the first year of their contract. It's really rare for anyone outside of ELC's to exercise it though. Both Soderstrom and Kravstov used their option to include one in their contracts and they came out of the SHL. Vesalainen had one in his contract and used it to go to the KHL, not even back to Liiga.

It really has nothing to do with Liiga, it is a players right to include one in the first year of their contract if they are coming from any league in Europe. Even if they played in the NHL, went to Europe and then signed into the NHL again they would have the right to include a Euro out clause in the first year and exercise it at their discretion. (an example of this would be if Jesse Puljujarvi signs with Edmonton again. He would have the right to include a Euro Out Clause in the first year of his new contract since he signed a new contract in Europe) Very few older players do as it likely raises some suspicion from the team signing them. But it seems younger players are exercising this right a lot more.

Igor Shesterkin - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Another example is Igor Shesterkin who also signed his ELC with NYR in the offseason. He is coming out of the KHL, but optioned to have a Euro Out Clause in the first year of his ELC.

The Euro Out Clause further states that the player has the right to sign with any team in Europe. Not just the one they came from, or even in the same league they came from (Like in Vesalainen's case). They also don't need to have a Euro contract in place, they can test Euro free agency and sign with any team that wants them in Europe, in any Euro league.

NHL teams have zero say in the matter. If the player wants one in their contract, they get it, and if they choose to exercise it at any time the NHL team must comply. The only sitpulation is that they must be signing out of a European league. So if a player is signing out of a CHL league or the USDP or the AHL. They cannot include one, even if they were born in Europe. Hence why under this rule, Auston Matthews could have included one in his ELC, since he was being signed out of the NLA.

The allegation isn't being made that Euro out clauses exist.

The topic at hand is ALL Liiga 2nd-7th draft picks must be returned to their teams.

I've taken your position repeatedly and been told over and over again that I'm wrong

Some clarity would be nice.

 

[bustamente]

For Heinola this is probably the best move, hope he gets lots of ice time, works on his game, maybe picks up a few lbs. and comes to camp next year ready to take a spot on our revamped D

 

[sleb]

Most often someone replies that's it's untrue, with another Finn reponding that it is.

Of course that might be true, I just haven't heard of it. But admittedly I'm not so active in hockey anymore, yet I do have contacts who still earn their living from it. Would be nice to get some actual proof on this.

Enough about OT. Heinola is now getting a good chance to prepare for WJC and concentrate on his physical development. Less games in Liiga, compared to AHL, so there's more time for the actual development.

 

[Daximus]

The allegation isn't being made that Euro out clauses exist.

The topic at hand is ALL Liiga 2nd-7th draft picks must be returned to their teams.

I've taken your position repeatedly and been told over and over again that I'm wrong

Some clarity would be nice.

I dont think it applies specifically to every Finn. Just those that decide to put the clause in their contract.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

9th overall pick Kravstov has one too.

Vitali Kravtsov - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I don't think it matters what round you are drafted in the CBA stipulates every player not drafted out of North America has the option of including one in their contract. By that definition Auston Matthews could have included a Euro out clause in his ELC as well.

So the team has no choice if the player wants an out clause? How the heck did that get in there?