Player Discussion Victor Mete: Part II

[Habs Halifax]

I think you need to look deeper into it. There are so many things that affect on one's plus/minus it's really useless to just stare that stat without a larger context. Petry's minus ratings in those terrible Edmonton teams and last year's Habs have nothing to do with Kulak. Kulak was exposed, just like Reilly and Benn and practically everyone else they tried to pair with Petry. Kulak was just more effective offensively than those guys and that's why he got the job. You could say he happened to be the least bad option in a pool of bad options.

Well you know what? I backed up my +/- narrative with material and substance and actual sample sizes of Petry with Reilly and Petry with Kulak. All you are doing is talking in general and not showing me anything where you actually did look deeper into it.

It's staring you right in the face (See below). You show me your "I looked deeper into it" breakdown. I support what Julien did and he kept Kulak with Petry for a reason. You have yet to find that reason cause you think Kulak is not that good cause of where he came from. Same story can be said towards Petry back when he played with the Oilers.

- Reilly / Petry (Nov 1st - Feb 1st): Reilly was -4 and Petry was -7
- Kulak / Petry (Feb 1 - end of Season): Kulak was +5 and Petry was +3

 

[Hostile Offer]

Well you know what? I backed up my +/- narrative with material and substance and actual sample sizes of Petry with Reilly and Petry with Kulak. All you are doing is talking in general and not showing me anything where you actually did look deeper into it.

It's staring you right in the face (See below). You show me your "I looked deeper into it" breakdown. I support what Julien did and he kept Kulak with Petry for a reason. You have yet to find that reason cause you think Kulak is not that good cause of where he came from. Same story can be said towards Petry back when he played with the Oilers.

- Reilly / Petry (Nov 1st - Feb 1st): Reilly was -4 and Petry was -7
- Kulak / Petry (Feb 1 - end of Season): Kulak was +5 and Petry was +3

I think Kulak is not that good because my eye test tells so. That's my reasoning, it's hard to find accurate statistics that show how good or bad he is defensively. He makes plenty of questionable decisions and can often be found lost in his own zone. Good offensive qualities though, he plays an aggressive brand of hockey, is decent at passing and physicality, and can definitely skate and shoot. But with how much of a wild card he is without the puck, I wouldn't trust him in a top 4 role for an extensive period of time. He's most certainly an NHLer, but ideally a bottom pairing dman with potentially some usage on PP. This discussion is going nowhere (and most certainly is not about Mete).

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think Kulak is not that good because my eye test tells so. That's my reasoning, it's hard to find accurate statistics that show how good or bad he is defensively. He makes plenty of questionable decisions and can often be found lost in his own zone. Good offensive qualities though, he plays an aggressive brand of hockey, is decent at passing and physicality, and can definitely skate and shoot. But with how much of a wild card he is without the puck, I wouldn't trust him in a top 4 role for an extensive period of time. He's most certainly an NHLer, but ideally a bottom pairing dman with potentially some usage on PP. This discussion is going nowhere (and most certainly is not about Mete).

Coach Julien and I disagree with your eye test.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Coach Julien and I disagree with your eye test.

Coach Julien does not necessarily disagree. We just don't have any better options for the spot right now. Kulak deserved his spot, the competition is just really poor.

 

[DangerDave]

Mete is way way better than the Gardiner Express Way.

As far as Kulak goes, I think he did a fine job last season. That being said, I still want am upgrade on the left side. Kulak on the third pair would be a luxury and I do believe that to be successful in a long playoff run that you need 3 reliable pairings

 

[cphabs]

Kid has earned his keep IMO.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Don’t forget Primeau!

and Mete...oh too late. Forgotten again.

All Mete's done is overachieved by huge margins since drafted and people treat him like he's MAB ffs.

I don't know how many posts of people being surprised at how good he looks next year I can take before I go postal.

 

[26Mats]

and Mete...oh too late. Forgotten again.

All Mete's done is overachieved by huge margins since drafted and people treat him like he's MAB ffs.

I don't know how many posts of people being surprised at how good he looks next year I can take before I go postal.

I am also looking forward to seeing him next year. I'm especially looking forward to seeing him at 25, in full bloom. He may never have an offensive game beyond 35 - 40 points. But he's got the balls and the speed to be all over the ice - up and down, up and down, side to side.... I hope he gets an innovative coach that knows how to use him properly and teach him to use his full potential in unorthodox ways.

 

[Fixxer]

and Mete...oh too late. Forgotten again.

All Mete's done is overachieved by huge margins since drafted and people treat him like he's MAB ffs.

I don't know how many posts of people being surprised at how good he looks next year I can take before I go postal.

It's true that people tend to forget his age. Mete is young and could be in the AHL at his age. Still, he's fast and he understands the game.

Did you meant Marc-André Bergeron? -- Total opposite D.
MAB main attribute was being a goalscorer (PP specialist) where Mete... does all the rest good except he's not going to become hulk. Looking forward to see him next year, with hopefully more strength without giving up too much on skating speed (if at all).

 

[cphabs]

and Mete...oh too late. Forgotten again.

All Mete's done is overachieved by huge margins since drafted and people treat him like he's MAB ffs.

I don't know how many posts of people being surprised at how good he looks next year I can take before I go postal.

Postal?

 

[26Mats]

It's true that people tend to forget his age. Mete is young and could be in the AHL at his age. Still, he's fast and he understands the game.

Did you meant Marc-André Bergeron? -- Total opposite D.
MAB main attribute was being a goalscorer (PP specialist) where Mete... does all the rest good except he's not going to become hulk. Looking forward to see him next year, with hopefully more strength without giving up too much on skating speed (if at all).

I expect him to get faster from year to year over the next couple of years. He can be a force with those wheels - and his gusto.

 

[26Mats]

Mete is way way better than the Gardiner Express Way.

As far as Kulak goes, I think he did a fine job last season. That being said, I still want am upgrade on the left side. Kulak on the third pair would be a luxury and I do believe that to be successful in a long playoff run that you need 3 reliable pairings

So is Gardiner your guy for the 2nd pair?

Mete Weber
Gardiner Petry
Kulak Juulsen
Benn, Folin, (Reilly?)

 

[Runner77]

Mete’s good. Just not first pairing good right now. He’ll get better certainly but would be better off in a 2nd pairing capacity.

 

[DangerDave]

So is Gardiner your guy for the 2nd pair?

Mete Weber
Gardiner Petry
Kulak Juulsen
Benn, Folin, (Reilly?)

Gardiner is not my guy for any pair. Signing him would be a mistake.

 

[angry pirate]

Coach Julien and I disagree with your eye test.

Coach Julien does not necessarily disagree. We just don't have any better options for the spot right now. Kulak deserved his spot, the competition is just really poor.

Some advanced stats also back up how good Kulak was last year. Weber and Petry were both better when paired with Kulak than without. Weber significantly so. Corsi For, Expected Goals for, and actual goals for were all better with Kulak.

It's more of the same when directly compared with Mete. Weber's Corsi For, Expected Goals For, and Goals For were significantly better with Kulak vs Mete. Petry's Corsi For and Expected Goals for was Better with Kulak vs Mete although Mete held the edge when paired with Petry in goals for (by a similar amount that Kulak held the advantage with Weber).

5 on 5 unblocked shot charts show that when Kulak was on the ice shots were more often kept to the outside and away from the high danger areas also.

Stats from an article via The Athletic.

 

[26Mats]

Gardiner is not my guy for any pair. Signing him would be a mistake.

If no suitable LD is available, the obvious solution is to try to snag one of the available RD (karlsson, Subban, etc...) and either play someone on the left or trade one of the RD for an LD.

 

[Runner77]

An obvious solution is to trade redundancy, some of which can be generated from the signing of UFAs, regardless of position. The GM needs to act creatively. His cap space is his most significant asset and needs to be utilized. Judiciously, goes without saying.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Some advanced stats also back up how good Kulak was last year. Weber and Petry were both better when paired with Kulak than without. Weber significantly so. Corsi For, Expected Goals for, and actual goals for were all better with Kulak.

It's more of the same when directly compared with Mete. Weber's Corsi For, Expected Goals For, and Goals For were significantly better with Kulak vs Mete. Petry's Corsi For and Expected Goals for was Better with Kulak vs Mete although Mete held the edge when paired with Petry in goals for (by a similar amount that Kulak held the advantage with Weber).

5 on 5 unblocked shot charts show that when Kulak was on the ice shots were more often kept to the outside and away from the high danger areas also.

Stats from an article via The Athletic.

Thanks for looking this up. I didn't look it up and I did the more traditional old school +/- filter when Kulak played top 4D minutes in the last 30 games ish. I also used my own eye test and Kulak played top 4D quality in the last 30 games. He's not getting the credit he deserves. The only concern is do we get the same production in a top 4D role for a full season.

The stats you provided makes Kulak look even better than I realized.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Earlier today, Arpon Basu posted an article on The Athletic where he went on the ice with Victor Mete and his shooting coach, who is helping him with his shooting.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Earlier today, Arpon Basu posted an article on The Athletic where he went on the ice with Victor Mete and his shooting coach, who is helping him with his shooting.

kid just needs a functional shot and he'll be a dandy. He's going to get his goals sneaking back door a la Markov. I might be alone in thinking this and I've said it a gazillion times but I think this kid's a potential stud. His baseline is 2nd pairing at this point but there's still real opportunity to be better than that. All he's done is over perform since we drafted him. I just find it odd how people are capping him as a bottom 4 guy where some begrudgingly think he COULD be a 2nd pairing guy. How good does a 20 year old have to be on a top pairing ffs?

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Guns n Roses]

kid just needs a functional shot and he'll be a dandy. He's going to get his goals sneaking back door a la Markov. I might be alone in thinking this and I've said it a gazillion times but I think this kid's a potential stud. His baseline is 2nd pairing at this point but there's still real opportunity to be better than that. All he's done is over perform since we drafted him. I just find it odd how people are capping him as a bottom 4 guy where some begrudgingly think he COULD be a 2nd pairing guy. How good does a 20 year old have to be on a top pairing ffs?

You’re setting yourself up for disappointment with Mete.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

You’re setting yourself up for disappointment with Mete.

Mete is a pet poodle. Temporarily he occupies a roster spot that should be populated by a much bigger and better player. Th Habs have some in the system but the se to be lagering them. Fortnately, it's between season and Bergevin has ample time to reign him or cut him/ I would keep him if he could rearrange Marchand's most obvious facial feature/

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

You’re setting yourself up for disappointment with Mete.

Nah. He's already been a huge win for a 4th rounder. Kid's already damn good for a 20 year old D. You'll have to show me all the kids who made the D at 19 and didn't get any better after 20. Or just all the legit prospects who topped out at 20 years old. Did anyone think he'd be neck and neck with Sergachev in the OHL scoring race during his D+1 (where he scored 15 goals mind you)? Did anyone think he'd make the NHL as a 19 year old and be a plus player on a basement dweller? Did anyone think he'd be a plus player on a top pairing the year after?

If the kid stays in the OHL and plays in the AHL everyone would be raving about him. People are more excited about Fleury meanwhile Mete would've crushed Fleury's totals had he been down there last year. Instead he does BETTER and everyone thinks he could MAYBE be a 2nd pairing guy lol. People just look at the size and the 0 goals.

I'm not saying he's a guaranteed stud but I really don't think it's this wishful thinking that others think. I'll wait and see. I'm willing to go out on a limb for him since no one else will so I gets to do muh gloating in a few years. It will be a nice feather in my cap.

 

[montreal]

Nah. He's already been a huge win for a 4th rounder. Kid's already damn good for a 20 year old D. You'll have to show me all the kids who made the D at 19 and didn't get any better after 20. Or just all the legit prospects who topped out at 20 years old. Did anyone think he'd be neck and neck with Sergachev in the OHL scoring race during his D+1 (where he scored 15 goals mind you)? Did anyone think he'd make the NHL as a 19 year old and be a plus player on a basement dweller? Did anyone think he'd be a plus player on a top pairing the year after?

If the kid stays in the OHL and plays in the AHL everyone would be raving about him. People are more excited about Fleury meanwhile Mete would've crushed Fleury's totals had he been down there last year. Instead he does BETTER and everyone thinks he could MAYBE be a 2nd pairing guy lol. People just look at the size and the 0 goals.

I'm not saying he's a guaranteed stud but I really don't think it's this wishful thinking that others think. I'll wait and see. I'm willing to go out on a limb for him since no one else will so I gets to do muh gloating in a few years. It will be a nice feather in my cap.

agreed he's already a big win for the scouting staff as a 4th rounder in the NHL at 19 and 20.

His numbers with London were solid but he was also on a deeper offensive team then Sergachev. London had 5 guys with 55 or more pts, Windsor had 2. That said Sergachev clearly was not playing his best after getting sent down from the NHL. There's a reason why he was named the best D in the OHL at 17, whereas Mete at 17 was on a team that had their top 3 scorers put up 343 pts that year. Mete has certainly been better then expected, but put Sergachev on London those 2 years and his numbers likely are a good bit higher.

As for him crushing Fleury's numbers in Laval if he was there, it's hard to say if he would have kept up his pace, he was there when Laval still had goal scorers, their offense got worse in the 2nd half and only 1 team had a lower goals per game in the league. Fleury was on pace for 29 pts, which is very good considering it was such a low scoring team, so not sure how much more offense Mete could have brought since he's likely not a big goal scorer whereas Fleury has that big shot as he led the team in goals for defensemen while being 2nd in points. He was 9th on the team overall in goals but only 2 of those players played less games then him.