OT: Vices/Gambling Thread: The Anti-Menu Thread

[Cody Webster]

well played hand by both players

You could make an argument for her not betting on the river as the guy was the first to play and checked, I think. But yeah, to fold that. He has enough to cover her so she would have been out had she called

 

[Hurricane28]

Speaking of poker and the 25K tournament, did you see that girl who folded a full house of Qs As? She had QA bet before the flop and one guy called. The flop came out Q93, and both checked. Next card was another Q and both players checked. River was an Ace and the girl bet. The guy raised her all in. Girl ended up folding Qs over As, he showed his hand and had pocket As, giving him As over Qs


Good luck to your friend, hopefully she can keep going

Saw it was the largest 25k ever and that Pokerstars was throwing and extra million into the pot.

It was an amazing fold. Unless I have a total read on someone that I know they have AA, its a snap call for me, especially since I'm holding an ace.

Also, with regard to 1/2. I'm learning from my dad, and have watched him play 2-3 sessions. He's very much a winning player at 1/2, but only plays recreationally, and doesn't want to move up in stakes. It is a crapshoot but from what I've seen, people are calling stations, and will pay off your premium hands.

 

[Hurricane28]

One session I watched him play Saturday at 1/2 at SugarHouse.

Board is JJKKA, villain calls down a $25, $50, and $50 bet with 10 10. Hero has K10. The guy doesn’t even realize that he’s playing the board then proceeds to say “I thought you were bluffing”. My dad ended up +$1300 at 1/2 that night. Those type of players are all over 1/2

 

[gertbfrobe16]

You could make an argument for her not betting on the river as the guy was the first to play and checked, I think. But yeah, to fold that. He has enough to cover her so she would have been out had she called

i'm guessing that she put him on ace k or k q with him calling her raise, and didn't put him on aa until he check raised all in after the river

 

[baudib1]

From a theoretical standpoint it's probably just a really bad fold.[/DougPolkEndRant]

I was talking about this hand with a buddy and he thinks that, given how tight Athanasios is, it's pretty reasonable to fold her hand. His reasoning is that the only hands he 3-bets and plays this way are KK/AA, so it's fold?

I suppose if he's 3-betting such a ridiculously narrow range in a BB vs. BTN spot, yeah it's just a fold. A reasonable range would at least sometimes include 99/KQ and he would only have to check one of those hands on the flop at a very low frequency to turn this into a call.

I had a spot where I folded the second nuts on the river (top set) in an absurd spot last year, and my poker coach berated me for it, but I just couldn't see how I could be good.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Nice to see the poker talk, I play quite regularly and have a regular 10 man league game. $70 entry and $30 to finale. Play the finale for $4000 as we top up another $100 and your chip stack is based on points throughout the year.
Im tight as hell, but do like playing cash as well.

The start of my card days was 25 yrs ago playing 3 card guts, f*** me those were the days. So young and guys were winning and losing so much $$., good times.

 

[Hurricane28]

I’ve been playing micro stakes online for pennies, but I’m trying to learn as much as I can to make the jump to live 1/2. I’m a winning player at online micro stakes, but haven’t played live 1/2 yet.

Any tips you guys have would be appreciated

 

[baudib1]

Jacki busted first hand of the day, flopped two pair < Kristen Bicknell's straight.

$86K not bad, she doubled her hendonmob.

 

[ybnvs]

Don't play $1/$2 if you want to try to be a winning poker player. It is so incredibly inconsistent from room to room, table to table, night to night.

Beating a 1/2 game is theoretically exceedingly simple - but good luck in practice when you can't make some donk fold with a preflop 3bet and he winds up calling off with AJ offsuit because he's confused and doesn't know what to do.

Raise your stakes, and you'll become more profitable, as the game becomes far more mechanical and the bad players play systematically.

 

[baudib1]

Don't play $1/$2 if you want to try to be a winning poker player. It is so incredibly inconsistent from room to room, table to table, night to night.

Beating a 1/2 game is theoretically exceedingly simple - but good luck in practice when you can't make some donk fold with a preflop 3bet and he winds up calling off with AJ offsuit because he's confused and doesn't know what to do.

Raise your stakes, and you'll become more profitable, as the game becomes far more mechanical and the bad players play systematically.

Once again this is really bad advice. Every bad player in history has said something like this at some point, and it's said so often that poker players have a running joke about it -- "move up to where they respect your raises."

There are a lot of problems with that statement, but chief among them are A. your objective is not to make everyone fold when you have the best hand and B. the truth is, if you're a weak player with a depolarized range in a game that's too big for you, the better players will start calling you really wide anyway.

 

[ybnvs]

I’ve been playing micro stakes online for pennies, but I’m trying to learn as much as I can to make the jump to live 1/2. I’m a winning player at online micro stakes, but haven’t played live 1/2 yet.

Any tips you guys have would be appreciated

Tip 1: Disregard anything and everything you do online when you play live; especially at a 1/2 table. There are no rules here. People will call you with anything. People don't know how to play at this level.

Tip 2: Already have mastered your emotions and ability to accept losses. 1/2 is an extremely up and down game, as it lacks any structure and halfway decent poker-playing whatsoever.

Tip 3: Don't go from penny games to buying in for $300 ( 300 is max at 1/2 in most casinos).

The best way to learn is to fail. Be ready to lose money. The only way you'll learn is from making mistakes. Winning is easy, but we don't always see how we win when we break down hand analysis.

Tip 4: DON'T TELL BAD BEAT STORIES AT THE TABLE. "hurr durrr this one time I had pocket aces and I lost against .... after I flopped.... and turned.... ". No one cares. Everyone has plenty of bad beat stories. This is part of poker etiquette.

Tip 5: The dealer is your friend. Tip them every hand you win.

Tip 6: Take your time. You're playing at a much slower pace live than when you are online. Online, per table, you'll average about 45 hands an hour. Live, you'll see half that per hour. Be patient with your game. Fold fold fold fold fold - this cannot be stressed enough. When first starting out, focus on making the correct decisions (because incorrect decisions are harder to understand why they occurred in the first place in the game of poker).

Tip 7: If/Then statements. After accruing time at a table and facing the same opponents for extended time, you'll have an understanding of what tendencies some people have. Against your weaker opponents (once you're able to single them out and realize you're not the mark for everyone else) you can easily profit off of them by doing If/Then. Always, take it to another level with your thinking to outdo your opponents thought process. - This is where bluffing can come into play or getting paid with your big hands.

Tip 8: Enjoy the ride. It's a rollercoaster.

 

[ybnvs]

Once again this is really bad advice. Every bad player in history has said something like this at some point, and it's said so often that poker players have a running joke about it -- "move up to where they respect your raises."

There are a lot of problems with that statement, but chief among them are A. your objective is not to make everyone fold when you have the best hand and B. the truth is, if you're a weak player with a depolarized range in a game that's too big for you, the better players will start calling you really wide anyway.

Very few hands you play you have the "best" hand. How often do we get to show the nuts? Not often.

Going from $1/$2 to $2/$5 then to $5/$10, you'll notice an extreme shift in play. Mostly because any old player will play the lowest stake game at a casino - and those players are tough to beat. $1/$2 was a harder game for me than $5/$10. This is not to say everyone will face adversity the way I did, but I know several players who also experienced similar results.

(NOTE: Do not start out to $5/$10 unless you have the bankroll to support it)

 

[baudib1]

Very few hands you play you have the "best" hand. How often do we get to show the nuts? Not often.

Going from $1/$2 to $2/$5 then to $5/$10, you'll notice an extreme shift in play. Mostly because any old player will play the lowest stake game at a casino - and those players are tough to beat. $1/$2 was a harder game for me than $5/$10. This is not to say everyone will face adversity the way I did, but I know several players who also experienced similar results.

(NOTE: Do not start out to $5/$10 unless you have the bankroll to support it)

I mean these things you are saying are simply not true and it's not remotely logical to believe them.

"Any old player playing the lowest stake games" are not hard to beat, they are easy to beat. If they were good at the game, they would be playing higher stakes.

You make money off bad players playing bad ranges, not against good players playing good ranges.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I definitely understand not enjoying the way certain limits tend to flow, but if you know what's going on and you're not reacting well to it, that's only on one person.

I also tend to not complain about getting my money into situations where I'm ahead and +EV, but that's just me. Dogs have to hit sometimes.

 

[ybnvs]

I mean these things you are saying are simply not true and it's not remotely logical to believe them.

"Any old player playing the lowest stake games" are not hard to beat, they are easy to beat. If they were good at the game, they would be playing higher stakes.

You make money off bad players playing bad ranges, not against good players playing good ranges.

I would like to say to the experienced player, my posts are contradictory. But to the guy thinking of playing $1/$2 for the first time transitioning from online microstakes to live cash, there lies a bit more merit in my posts.

For new players, the bad players at the table are hard to beat. My post is directed at the guy who is new to the game, rather than someone like you who clearly has much and more experience stacking people.

 

[ybnvs]

A trend I've noticed with many poker players - they always have to be right.

It's okay to be wrong, even when discussing the metaphysics of the game for new players.

 

[baudib1]

Telling new players to play 5/10 instead of 1/2 is just a really terrible idea. Many of the casinos in this country don't even offer 5/10, and if they do, it's often going to be a really tough game. 5/10 at the Borgata is considered by many people to be the toughest NLHE game on the East Coast. 5/10 at the Wynn can be pretty tough, too.

The advice I'd give to newer players is this:
1. Depending on where you're playing, it's often going to be tough to beat the rake. Play tight especially from EP.
2. Value-bet relentlessly. If you have a good hand, keep betting until you have a good reason not to do so.
3. When you get raised, you need to re-evaluate and probably dump even your strongest one-pair hands.
4. Pay attention.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

If anyone ever suggests you play the Borgata 5/10 NLHE and you didn't already know you were sitting there, openly laugh.

As far as advice for Live games, be brutally honest with yourself as to why you're playing and what your goals are. The most profitable tables often aren't the most fun or the best ways of improving. Table selection is both a skill and a necessity.

 

[baudib1]

The best game I've ever played in was probably a 1/2 in Brooklyn that played like shortstacked 25/50. It was a game populated by pretty scary people and there were literal criminals running the game and over-raking it, but there were people who would lose $10,000 a night and give zero f***s about it.

One of the biggest pots I won there was a 3-way AIPF for about 1,500 each. The hands were Q4o, KTo and 99. I had KTo and couldn't find a reason to fold. Out of ~ 50 or so regs in this game, I was probably the third tightest.

Despite how juicy it was, I wouldn't have recommended this game for most people. The variance was just sickening.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The best game I've ever played in was probably a 1/2 in Brooklyn that played like shortstacked 25/50. It was a game populated by pretty scary people and there were literal criminals running the game and over-raking it, but there were people who would lose $10,000 a night and give zero ****s about it.

One of the biggest pots I won there was a 3-way AIPF for about 1,500 each. The hands were Q4o, KTo and 99. I had KTo and couldn't find a reason to fold. Out of ~ 50 or so regs in this game, I was probably the third tightest.

Despite how juicy it was, I wouldn't have recommended this game for most people. The variance was just sickening.

Some of those NYC private games are the best if you can stomach the variance.

A lot of the dealers they used would end up in the pink chip games at the Trop and sell invites for a cut when they invariably busted. That was my initial in to that scene.

 

[baudib1]

There are now a whole group of dbags on poker twitter acting as if the AQ fold was "more trivial than it appears."

 

[Hurricane28]

There are now a whole group of dbags on poker twitter acting as if the AQ fold was "more trivial than it appears."

Guarantee those dbags snap call 100/100 times

 

[Jtown]

Don't play $1/$2 if you want to try to be a winning poker player. It is so incredibly inconsistent from room to room, table to table, night to night.

Beating a 1/2 game is theoretically exceedingly simple - but good luck in practice when you can't make some donk fold with a preflop 3bet and he winds up calling off with AJ offsuit because he's confused and doesn't know what to do.

Raise your stakes, and you'll become more profitable, as the game becomes far more mechanical and the bad players play systematically.

amen.

Back in the day online 1/2 was profitable if you were stacking 12 tables at a time. But live? Go to any live 1/2 in america and its really the lowest form of poker being played. You are going to lose so many bad beats it will drive you crazy and the most important thing is you won't learn. Playing live i would only do 10-25 or up. That requires a 50,000 dollar bankroll. SO maybe live is not for you IMO live is overrated except for tournaments.

poker is getting very tough to make money. The heyday has been over for about 8 years now. THe only guys left are really sharpe.

 

[Hurricane28]

Just from what I observed from live 1/2, you’re going to get run down sometimes, but for every time they run you down, they miss 75% of the time chasing draws and punt away their stack chasing straight and flush draws.

 

[baudib1]

I'm actually stoked to have found a little spot to talk poker since poker Twitter is so tilting these days.

I've been relying solely on poker for income for two years now. It's been ugly and scary at times but I've survived so far.

Despite actually not being that good at poker and never having won anything, I'm pretty well known in the poker world. I've been in the lab quite a bit lately, studying the Petrangelo course and some other things. Hoping this is the year I actually do something.