LeBrun: "...very preliminary discussion between Pittsburgh and Dallas." (Fleury)

[SprDaVE]

"His decline this year isn't a big surprise"

What are you talking about? Are you acting like people actually envisioned his play falling off this year? His issue is that he needs to be playing a starter's role to be effective, he can't be splitting time or be a backup to be effective.

I did? Wasn't very hard to imagine to happen very soon, just so happened that it was this year.

Good luck though. I would push long and hard to make a case for someone to pick him up as well.

 

[mgd525]

My gut is telling me MAF does end up in DAL. I believe that will be quite interesting with the way the stars play defense....

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

One guy says dont use past stats, next guy says you cant just use this years stats... Fact is teams look at it in a what have you done lately and he Fleury hasn't done it on a better team. His age, his decline, the fact that everyone knows the Pens have to move him... Dallas would be insane to add anything to a deal where they swap goalies... if anything the Pens need to add a prospect or picks to get Dallas to help them out..

half a season as a backup isnt a big enough sample and 10 years ago's stats are not relevant.

Last couple years is always the way to go unless there are severe mitigating factors like injury etc.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I did? Wasn't very hard to imagine to happen very soon, just so happened that it was this year.

Good luck though. I would push long and hard to make a case for someone to pick him up as well.

Goalies don't usually fall off until their mid 30s, so it was pretty unexpected for him to drop off like he has, especially considering how good he was in the last two years.

Nothing that anyone on this site says matters, so it's not like arguing about whether someone should trade for Fleury makes a difference. This site is just basically sharing opinions, because nothing we say matters

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Because MAF just prelongs their search for a stable long-term goaltender. His decline this season isn't a big surprise and it's not going to get any better on a weaker team.

It's dumb in their current state and they should feel dumb for even thinking about it to be perfectly honest. I get that Dallas is desperate for a goaltender but... yikes.

Stars are locked into two goalies for over 10m through next season.

If they have a chance to upgrade and get out from under one of those contracts at the same time, for a minimal cost, how is that a dumb move again?

There is a reason the Stars and Pens are talking, and that's because both teams can help each other with a problem.

 

[d99gr81]

That's not actually true, the rule is injured players can't be bought out without their consent. The issue with Cowen over the offseason was that he was only getting 1/3 of his salary from the buyout (as opposed to 2/3) and he likely won't be able to play hockey again to make more money. That's not true with Fleury.



You're the guy who kept suggesting Fleury was going to fake a concussion by eating rancid meat. Why are you obsessed with posting about MAF on this website?

It's kinda funny, it's always the same 3 people railing on Fleury's value on this site. They just repeat the same point over and over again, as if that makes their dumb point any more valid.



"His decline this year isn't a big surprise"

What are you talking about? Are you acting like people actually envisioned his play falling off this year? His issue is that he needs to be playing a starter's role to be effective, he can't be splitting time or be a backup to be effective.



If the Penguins wait until after the season to move Fleury, isn't it more logical to do a trade then? You'd still have to buyout one of your goalies if you want to sign him. Fleury with money retained for Niemi and a pick likely ends up being cheaper for both teams in the long run. Is signing Fleury for probably a good chunk of money worth buying out Niemi?



Bishop stats: 13-12-3, 2.69 GAA, .907 save%
Fleury stats: 14-7-4, 3.15 GAA, .906 save%

So why does this standard not apply for Bishop from you? They have a virtually identical save%.

First off no one is talking about Bishop, I certainly haven't been... the same standard absolutely holds true for him too. So don't put words in my mouth when he hasn't even been the subject of any of my conversations. I regards to Dallas and their long running goalie issues they should be looking for younger long term goal tender.

 

[d99gr81]

Goalies don't usually fall off until their mid 30s, so it was pretty unexpected for him to drop off like he has, especially considering how good he was in the last two years.

Nothing that anyone on this site says matters, so it's not like arguing about whether someone should trade for Fleury makes a difference. This site is just basically sharing opinions, because nothing we say matters

That's first thing you have said that I actually agree with

 

[Empoleon8771]

First off no one is talking about Bishop, I certainly haven't been... the same standard absolutely holds true for him too. So don't put words in my mouth when he hasn't even been the subject of any of my conversations. I regards to Dallas and their long running goalie issues they should be looking for younger long term goal tender.

People have been talking about bringing in Bishop over MAF pretty much consistently in this thread and no one is pointing to his issues this year as a justification for him being a bad goalie. So is Bishop a bad goalie too?

 

[KevinRedkey]

People have been talking about bringing in Bishop over MAF pretty much consistently in this thread and no one is pointing to his issues this year as a justification for him being a bad goalie. So is Bishop a bad goalie too?

Yes, but people are less likely to call him one because he was a Vezina caliber guy as recently as last year.

 

[hooverdam]

People who think there's a chance Murray gets exposed in the expansion draft are some of the saddest, simplest people I've ever encountered on this board. That is all.

 

[d99gr81]

People have been talking about bringing in Bishop over MAF pretty much consistently in this thread and no one is pointing to his issues this year as a justification for him being a bad goalie. So is Bishop a bad goalie too?

Maybe other people but I haven't... yet you reply to my message to indicate as such.. Bishops numbers are exactly in the same place as MAF and the Dallas netminders... So in regards to this thread and DALLAS... as I have stated already and I will state again. The Stars need to go find a younger long term future goalie even if that means playing along side KL or AN for a season. MAF and Bishop have not played like major upgrades and a move for them is a lateral move that does no good for anyone but the Pens. So yes it includes Bishop. The way I see Dallas getting involved is knowing this is a lateral move so they use the fact they are helping the Pens out and the PENS send assets back not the other way around... Personally I hope no one helps the Pens out of their jam. So for Pens fans expecting 2nd round picks make me laugh. If Dallas does that... its my opinion is that they are friggin insane.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes, but people are less likely to call him one because he was a Vezina caliber guy as recently as last year.

And Fleury put up a .921 save% in each of the last 2 years. I just really don't understand the double standard here.

 

[d99gr81]

People who think there's a chance Murray gets exposed in the expansion draft are some of the saddest, simplest people I've ever encountered on this board. That is all.

No ones posting he will be exposed... everyone knows they will buy him out. We are commenting on the laughable trade proposals that have Dallas sending assets back for MAF when we all know the Pens would happily just swap goalies and run in order to protect Murray.

 

[d99gr81]

And Fleury put up a .921 save% in each of the last 2 years. I just really don't understand the double standard here.

This thread was about MAF and Dallas... so not sure how this is even relevant. They both have played poorly so Bishop falls in the same category as MAF in regards to Dallas in my mind as well. Dallas adding either one of these guys would only be a change that like previous poster said delays them from doing what they need to do and that is finding a younger goalie for the future.

 

[hooverdam]

No ones posting he will be exposed... everyone knows they will buy him out. We are commenting on the laughable trade proposals that have Dallas sending assets back for MAF when we all know the Pens would happily just swap goalies and run in order to protect Murray.

I don't really care about getting value for MAF so the trade squabbles seem pointless and futile to me (as they often are, let's be real). I know the Penguins front office cares about getting value for MAF, and I don't agree with that stance, but it's whatever.

I'm just pointing out that the consequences of keeping MAF past the deadline will never be "the Penguins lose Murray to Vegas", as so many people in this thread seem to think. The consequences are more like "MAF is a waste of cap space" "the goalie situation is a distraction" "there's more cap space wasted on a buyout" and "it is annoying to HFBoards user hooverdam".

 

[d99gr81]

I don't really care about getting value for MAF so the trade squabbles seem pointless and futile to me (as they often are, let's be real). I know the Penguins front office cares about getting value for MAF, and I don't agree with that stance, but it's whatever.

I'm just pointing out that the consequences of keeping MAF past the deadline will never be "the Penguins lose Murray to Vegas", as so many people in this thread seem to think. The consequences are more like "MAF is a waste of cap space" "the goalie situation is a distraction" "there's more cap space wasted on a buyout" and "it is annoying to HFBoards user hooverdam".

Again I haven't seen anyone post that they will lose Murray, most of us just want to see them not bailed out easily by a team like Dallas. And you are one of the few Pens fans that actually said you would just move him and not look for value that's not there. That's an honest assessment... If I was a Pens fan I would take what I could and run as well.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Dallas:
Fleury
Daley

Pittsburgh:
Niemi

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Dallas is not getting the plus.

In any deal Dallas is getting a considerable upgrade for a small cap hit increase. If anyone gets a plus its Pittsburgh.

There is a change due to cap balancing there could be something like...

MAF + player P for Niemi + player S

but player S will be the better player.

 

[hooverdam]

Again I haven't seen anyone post that they will lose Murray, most of us just want to see them not bailed out easily by a team like Dallas. And you are one of the few Pens fans that actually said you would just move him and not look for value that's not there. That's an honest assessment... If I was a Pens fan I would take what I could and run as well.

I think there's a difference between not caring about value and the value not being there. I think there's value in Fleury, I think you're probably undervaluing him, and I think the Penguins front office (and the Dallas front office, for that matter) see value in him. I just don't care if we get that value.

Simply put, Fleury doesn't have much value to the Penguins, but I believe he has value to the Dallas Stars, or the Carolina Hurricanes, or the St. Louis Blues. Do I care about maximizing that value? Not really. Does Jim Rutherford care about maximizing that value? Yep. Do I wish he cared a little less (especially considering he's been careless about asset management in the past)? Yeah probably. But I'm not the GM of the Penguins, you're not the GM of the Stars, and the GM of the Stars isn't going to be in preliminary talks about a goalie that hasn't even been put on the market if he didn't sense some value in him. How much value does he place in stabilizing his goalie situation for the foreseeable future? I don't think you can accurately answer that.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So Dallas trades similarly bad goalie to the Pens for pretty much the same numbers but Fleury is on a contending team with those numbers. AND Dallas adds a prospect? lol Why would Dallas do that?


Save %

34 Marc-Andre Fleury, G PIT 28 14 7 4 3.15 80 849 769 .906 0 7 4 .571
35 Jonathan Bernier, G ANA 20 8 4 2 2.82 44 465 421 .905 1 18 10 .556
36 Jaroslav Halak, G NYI 21 6 8 5 3.23 64 669 605 .904 1 5 3 .600
37 Kari Lehtonen, G DAL 36 11 15 6 2.89 92 937 845 .902 1 5 2 .400
Carter Hutton, G STL 23 8 7 2 2.66 48 489 441 .902 3 0 0 .000
39 Antti Niemi, G DAL 28 10 8 4 3.20 70 704 634 .901 0 0 0 .000


GAA

38 Kari Lehtonen, G DAL 36 11 15 6 2.89 92 937 845 .902 1 5 2 .400
39 Steve Mason, G PHI 41 16 16 6 2.90 107 1069 962 .900 1 30 23 .767
40 Calvin Pickard, G COL 26 9 14 1 2.93 71 762 691 .907 2 2 1 .500
41 Petr Mrazek, G DET 31 12 12 6 3.07 88 869 781 .899 1 15 12 .800
42 Marc-Andre Fleury, G PIT 28 14 7 4 3.15 80 849 769 .906 0 7 4 .571
43 Louis Domingue, G ARI 21 5 12 1 3.19 55 536 481 .897 0 4 4 1.000
44 Antti Niemi, G DAL 28 10 8 4 3.20 70 704 634 .901 0 0 0 .000

Yeah except Fleury has been slowly turning his game back around and was fantastic last year. Your boys kari and niemi weren't and haven't been for some time. Say what you will about fleury but he gets you wins in the regular season and up until his concussions last year and the one bad play off game after a while he was also rebounding in the playoffs the last couple of years.

So the incessant whining about how he sucks is so moronic it's almost comical now. And it's funny that it's coming from fans of a team that has the worst goaltending in the league.

 

[tony d]

Fleury to Dallas makes a lot of sense. Not sure Pittsburgh would want Niemi all that much though.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No ones posting he will be exposed... everyone knows they will buy him out. We are commenting on the laughable trade proposals that have Dallas sending assets back for MAF when we all know the Pens would happily just swap goalies and run in order to protect Murray.

Yeah and thank god gms are not posters like you. Where they make silly claims about falling off this year for stats and what not. Stay golden.

 

[d99gr81]

Dallas is not getting the plus.

In any deal Dallas is getting a considerable upgrade for a small cap hit increase. If anyone gets a plus its Pittsburgh.

There is a change due to cap balancing there could be something like...

MAF + player P for Niemi + player S

but player S will be the better player.

Guess you haven't been following this thread. DALLAS would be INSANE to give any assets and/or a plus when this is a lateral move that helps the Pens.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Buyout only makes sense if he thinks he will get a contract that will cover the money he is losing or giving him more overall which is not certain at all.

While I agree on the overall reasoning - Fleury would only have to make something like $1.8M to cover what the buyout would cost him. He'd be guaranteed to make at least that if you look at the number of teams that will need upgrades (WINN, DAL, CAL, STL, etc.) on what they're currently getting in goal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Guess you haven't been following this thread. DALLAS would be INSANE to give any assets and/or a plus when this is a lateral move that helps the Pens.

Even if you ignore literally everything that has happened in the past and only look at this season, Fleury is still an upgrade on Niemi. The only difference is that his stats this year aren't as massive of an upgrade as his stats in previous years. To call Fleury for Niemi a lateral move is just wrong, it's really that simple.