LeBrun: "...very preliminary discussion between Pittsburgh and Dallas." (Fleury)

[Inflict]

If the Penguins buyout Fleury, they'd only have $2 million to spend on a backup to equal the price of Niemi. That $1.916 million cap hit is a penalty for 4 years too. Even if the Penguins retain $1 million of Fleury's contract, they come out at +$750k for next year, +$4.75 million after Niemi leaves as a UFA and $5.75 million after 18-19. If they buyout Fleury, they come out at +$3.834 million over the next 2 years and then go -$1.916 million over the 2 years after that, both of which while needing a backup.

I'm curious, but why is buying out Fleury even an option? Surely he gets traded or at worse, picked up by Vegas in the expansion draft.

 

[traparatus]

Why the Pens do it: We are ****ed if Murray goes down for significant time anyway. We are ****ed if we have to expose Murray. The longer we wait the more likely it is no one will help us. Buying out Fleury is gross mismanagement of the cap and a silly pipe dream. Welp times up and we are done posturing and pretending like we trust "Flower", lets trade him to the only market that wants him.

Why the Stars do it: We are ****ed with Lehtonen and Niemi. We are are ****ed if we can't sign Bishop in the offseason and putting all our eggs in that basket is probably stupid and risky. Lets take the mediocre lower risk/lower reward solution rather than looking for a long term solution. It can't get any worse right?

Result:

Pens: Murray never gets injured and they end up never needing Fleury, Niemi looks ok in the few games/reliefs he plays and no one cares.

Stars: Dallas finally gets slightly above average goaltending for the BARGAIN cost of nearly 12 million in cap space next season. Fleury goes on a tear this season and plays well enough to ensure that Dallas gets the 9th seed in the West and the worst draft position possible.

Sounds about right. What's your point?

Here is a kick in the [MOD]. Both Niemi and Lehtonen have NTCs and could possibly block a trade. It's hard to blame GMs. If you have a chance to lock up two beauties like Niemi and Lehtonen at a bargain cost of $10.4mil combined and long term, an NTC is but a formality

 

[TorstenFrings]

He only loses 1/3rd of his salary via a buyout. He'd have to sign a 2 year 1.9M AAV contract to break even.

The most likely scenario is that a buyout would heavily favour Fleury. He'd likely get a significant raise and would be able to choose his destination out of those looking for a starter. Minimum wage for starting goalies in the NHL is over 4M. When you consider his buyout payments from Pittsburgh in addition to his new contract, Fleury likely ends up being one of the top paid goalies in the league for the next two seasons if he is bought out.

See, that is what I am saying. For a cap strapped team, it is much more beneficial to trade for Fleury at 3.75m/2 years (if PIT retained about the same they'd be on the hook for with a buyout) than sign him to an UFA contract this summer.
Apparently a lot of people have convinced themselves, that Fleury will be forced to sign a super short-term prove-yourself-contract, though. They probably think 2 years at 1.9m is preposterous already.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm curious, but why is buying out Fleury even an option? Surely he gets traded or at worse, picked up by Vegas in the expansion draft.

He can't get picked by Vegas in the expansion draft due to his NMC (he won't waive his NMC period, but he especially wouldn't waive it to be expansion bait for Vegas). There are only a limited amount of teams that would be interested in MAF and probably even fewer after Fleury's NTC is included into the equation. The Penguins are going to have to take an expensive goalie back for Fleury in any trade except for Calgary (who I'd imagine is on Fleury's NTC), whether it's Ward, Lack, Niemi, Markstrom or someone like that.

 

[Inflict]

He can't get picked by Vegas in the expansion draft due to his NMC (he won't waive his NMC period, but he especially wouldn't waive it to be expansion bait for Vegas). There are only a limited amount of teams that would be interested in MAF and probably even fewer after Fleury's NTC is included into the equation. The Penguins are going to have to take an expensive goalie back for Fleury in any trade except for Calgary (who I'd imagine is on Fleury's NTC), whether it's Ward, Lack, Niemi, Markstrom or someone like that.

I guess I missed the NMC clause part. The media was really pumping up the Fleury to Vegas narrative, and I bought into that without much research. Still though, I highly doubt that Pittsburgh will have to retain salary for MAF unless they get a really good return. I'm almost 100% sure it wont come down to a buyout. That NMC definitely hurts his value though if MAF decides to enforce it.

 

[ginner classic]

Why the Pens do it: We are ****ed if Murray goes down for significant time anyway. We are ****ed if we have to expose Murray. The longer we wait the more likely it is no one will help us. Buying out Fleury is gross mismanagement of the cap and a silly pipe dream. Welp times up and we are done posturing and pretending like we trust "Flower", lets trade him to the only market that wants him.

Why the Stars do it: We are ****ed with Lehtonen and Niemi. We are are ****ed if we can't sign Bishop in the offseason and putting all our eggs in that basket is probably stupid and risky. Lets take the mediocre lower risk/lower reward solution rather than looking for a long term solution. It can't get any worse right?

Result:

Pens: Murray never gets injured and they end up never needing Fleury, Niemi looks ok in the few games/reliefs he plays and no one cares.

Stars: Dallas finally gets slightly above average goaltending for the BARGAIN cost of nearly 12 million in cap space next season. Fleury goes on a tear this season and plays well enough to ensure that Dallas gets the 9th seed in the West and the worst draft position possible.

Simple solution for Dallas....pursue Raanta who the Rag$ can't protect. They could agree to a deal now in principle and leave Bishop as the backup plan (pun not intended).

My guess...Bishop to Philly, Mason to Tampa, Fleury to Calgary, Miller (UFA) to Anaheim and Raanta to Dallas. Dallas can trade Niemi to Vancouver along with a pick for taking the cap dump, or they can just buy him out.

Everyone wins.

 

[Mr Positive]

Fleury only has a 12 team NTC, so he wouldn't need to waive his NMC. I really don't see any reason that Fleury would have Dallas on his NTC.

He would put Dallas on it if he wrote the list strategically to stay in Pittsburgh. There are a lot of teams that would not take on Fleury no matter what, because they already have a NMC goalie or like their own goalie too much.

 

[MBTendy]

Fleury is not the guy we should be targeting, hopefully it's just Nill doing his job, and asking around to get an idea of the market.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

So fleury, who turns 33 this year, solves what exactly for Dallas?

He is certainly not the guy to get them over the hump before he rapidly declines with age and dallas needs some big time help on that blue line in the coming years

A lot of hopes and prayers some of the d prospects and rookies exceed their expectations because if they dont, there aint a thing a mid 30s fleury can do to help

 

[CrypTic]

He would put Dallas on it if he wrote the list strategically to stay in Pittsburgh. There are a lot of teams that would not take on Fleury no matter what, because they already have a NMC goalie or like their own goalie too much.

I agree. If he made his list strategically, Dallas would be the last team that he'd put on his list of teams he can be traded to. He'd never list them. (capfriendly says that he has a list of 18 teams he can be traded to). If he made it based on which teams he's most like to play on after the Pens, who knows which teams he put on the list. It might be based on location, climate, chances of winning the Cup, how many games he thinks he'd start. It could be anything.

I'd probably do it strategically bc you can always agree to a trade if you decide to later. Or at least mostly strategically with maybe a few teams that I liked a lot mixed in even if they weren't likely to want a goalie.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I agree. If he made his list strategically, Dallas would be the last team that he'd put on his list of teams he can be traded to. He'd never list them. (capfriendly says that he has a list of 18 teams he can be traded to). If he made it based on which teams he's most like to play on after the Pens, who knows which teams he put on the list. It might be based on location, climate, chances of winning the Cup, how many games he thinks he'd start. It could be anything.

I'd probably do it strategically bc you can always agree to a trade if you decide to later. Or at least mostly strategically with maybe a few teams that I liked a lot mixed in even if they weren't likely to want a goalie.

The actual list is obviously not known to the general public, but based on some of the rumors/hints about Fleury's preferences, it seems that he'd agree to a trade if the team:

1-Is a contender. He doesn't want to play the rest of his prime years for a bad team or a rebuilding team.
2-Will be the #1 goalie. If a team is trading for his $5.75 salary, chances are this criteria will be met.
3-Doesn't seem keen on playing in Canada, or in a big hockey market.

Depending on how far away a team like Dallas is considered for #1 above, they'd probably fit all his criteria in order to agree to a trade there.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Just FYI about MAF. JR said this yesterday:

When asked if he's forced to do something (about MAF) now or can he wait?

(JR) We can wait til it's time to put our expansion draft list in. I'm not concerned about getting backed into a corner in any way as far as our protected list goes with our goalies. I've had enough communication with Marc's agent and with him to know that we'll be able to make the right decisions for the team at that time.

Sounds like theres zero pressure to move MAF before the ED cuz he'll waive.
More from that interview made it sound like JR would only move him if it's something MAF wanted to do + it made sense for PIT to do it.

 

[Got One Cup]

Just FYI about MAF. JR said this yesterday:



Sounds like theres zero pressure to move MAF before the ED cuz he'll waive.
More from that interview made it sound like JR would only move him if it's something MAF wanted to do + it made sense for PIT to do it.

Lol what do you think he is going to say. Yeah we need to move him before we end up losing Murray and being stuck with him? I don't see anything in that comment about buying out or waiving MAF.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

The actual list is obviously not known to the general public, but based on some of the rumors/hints about Fleury's preferences, it seems that he'd agree to a trade if the team:

1-Is a contender. He doesn't want to play the rest of his prime years for a bad team or a rebuilding team.
2-Will be the #1 goalie. If a team is trading for his $5.75 salary, chances are this criteria will be met.
3-Doesn't seem keen on playing in Canada, or in a big hockey market.

Depending on how far away a team like Dallas is considered for #1 above, they'd probably fit all his criteria in order to agree to a trade there.

Dallas is not a cup contender with that blue line

 

[Giskard]

Sounds like theres zero pressure to move MAF before the ED cuz he'll waive.
More from that interview made it sound like JR would only move him if it's something MAF wanted to do + it made sense for PIT to do it.

Yep, there is no reason to trade Fleury now, unless he demand it or somebody overpay. Trading Fleury for Niemi or another backup doesn't help for the playoff run. Just wait after the season end, put all the cards on the table and deal with it before the expansion draft.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Lol what do you think he is going to say. Yeah we need to move him before we end up losing Murray and being stuck with him? I don't see anything in that comment about buying out or waiving MAF.

Well take it in context.
MAF wants to play one final season with PIT.
How does he accomplish that the easiest way?
Then read what JR said.

ie. Everyone talked and MAF+Agent told JR they'd waive for the ED if it came to that to play one last season with PIT and no one has to feel pressured to do anything.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Lol what do you think he is going to say. Yeah we need to move him before we end up losing Murray and being stuck with him? I don't see anything in that comment about buying out or waiving MAF.

Are you familiar with the term "buyout"?

 

[Got One Cup]

Are you familiar with the term "buyout"?

Yes, I'm hoping one day my boss offers it to me. We all have to have dreams right? The Pens don't have much cap space, guess it depends on if the front office is ok with taking the hit. His NMC makes this an interesting situation. What if he gets injured before the Pens have a chance to buy him out? Not sure how that situation would work out.

 

[Daeni10]

Just FYI about MAF. JR said this yesterday:



Sounds like theres zero pressure to move MAF before the ED cuz he'll waive.
More from that interview made it sound like JR would only move him if it's something MAF wanted to do + it made sense for PIT to do it.

Exactly, MAF will waive his NMC come expansion draft and if JR wants to he can trade him in the summer too. The only reason to move him is cap space and with that you can wait until the summer and if he gets picked it sucks but well it is not the end of the world right. If JR trades him now I am sure that he only does it to make the team better, so while Niemi might come back too, the Stars would have to add something that helps us this season

 

[orby]

Fleury is better than both Stars goalies but i don't think they'd acquire him without getting rid of both of the guys they have. I.e. trade niemi and a b-prospect for fleury AND trade lehtonen for a b-prospect and a backup goalie.

 

[airbus220]

Just FYI about MAF. JR said this yesterday:



Sounds like theres zero pressure to move MAF before the ED cuz he'll waive.
More from that interview made it sound like JR would only move him if it's something MAF wanted to do + it made sense for PIT to do it.

You mean PIT will have 3M more to spend on goalies next. That's even better.

 

[airbus220]

His NMC makes this an interesting situation. What if he gets injured before the Pens have a chance to buy him out?

How can you come up with this

 

[SprDaVE]

What a dumb move from Dallas if they do that.

 

[Scoresberg]

I think it'd be a good deal for Dallas. It's obvious they're not going anywhere with Lehtonen or Niemi and wasting a high-pick (not a 1st) or a prospect wouldn't hurt them that much. Their time to compete is now.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

What a dumb move from Dallas if they do that.

In what way? Stars have a crap situation in goal, locked in with two high salaried goalies.

If they swap Niemi with MAF, it likely costs them maybe a third rounder, and MAF I believe is a year younger as well.