Prospect Info: Vasili Podkolzin, Pt. II

[Fatass]

totally disagree. Find a team that will take LE, we hold half his salary, we certainly should not have to give up much, certainly not a 10 OA pick. What a waste that would be.

I hate the idea too, but It’s Benning running the show.

 

[Bob Long]

Didn’t the story of the Pods pick involve Bracket (representing his scouts) having to fight Benning to pick Pods? Not sure Pods was a Benning Guy. That’s why I think Benning might use Pods as sweetener in a deal to dump Loui.

I dunno, I assume since Jim got up there and said the name at the end of the day he liked the pick. I don't buy into most of the Jim vs Judd stuff.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I dunno, I assume since Jim got up there and said the name at the end of the day he liked the pick. I don't buy into most of the Jim vs Judd stuff.

That's your right, but it's still going against legitimate information to do so.

Iain MacIntyre is a reporter making a sourced statement.

 

[Bob Long]

That's your right, but it's still going against legitimate information to do so.

Iain MacIntyre is a reporter making a sourced statement.

I wouldn't say 'going against' as much as not giving isolated things too much weight. Maybe Benning just makes his staff work hard to prove their cases. And at the end of the day, he is a guy that can be convinced and isn't immovable off his original ideas. Thats a good thing which he gets zero credit for around here, people are mad because he had one idea originally, which if you think about it makes no sense at all given what he ended up doing.

 

[Bob Long]

totally disagree. Find a team that will take LE, we hold half his salary, we certainly should not have to give up much, certainly not a 10 OA pick. What a waste that would be.

it won't be Podz, but its probably someone like Woo. Ottawa should be all over a deal like that, at full salary. They could actually benefit from Loui's defensive play for one year, and they can use him for Seattle expansion exposure to protect a more valuable younger player, and it helps them meet the cap floor with real dollars lower than his AAV, its a no-brainer.

That would be a real shame to lose Woo, but I don't see how Jim sheds Loui's anchor without the price being that high.

 

[Bob Long]

Good article here on Podkolzin's start to the season in case you haven't seen it: Vasily Podkolzin’s final KHL season prior to joining the Canucks is underway

 

[Bleach Clean]

I wouldn't say 'going against' as much as not giving isolated things too much weight. Maybe Benning just makes his staff work hard to prove their cases. And at the end of the day, he is a guy that can be convinced and isn't immovable off his original ideas. Thats a good thing which he gets zero credit for around here, people are mad because he had one idea originally, which if you think about it makes no sense at all given what he ended up doing.

I'm not following your speculation after the first sentence, please clarify.

The weight of a sourced statement is static. Your acceptance of, or weighting of said statement is your subjectivity imposed upon the information being provided. It does not hold in arguments that cite these statements as reference points.

 

[tradervik]

Can we not have a reprise of the Benning vs Brackett draft wars? Pretty please?

 

[F A N]

Didn’t the story of the Pods pick involve Bracket (representing his scouts) having to fight Benning to pick Pods? Not sure Pods was a Benning Guy. That’s why I think Benning might use Pods as sweetener in a deal to dump Loui.

I dunno, I assume since Jim got up there and said the name at the end of the day he liked the pick. I don't buy into most of the Jim vs Judd stuff.

I wouldn't say 'going against' as much as not giving isolated things too much weight. Maybe Benning just makes his staff work hard to prove their cases. And at the end of the day, he is a guy that can be convinced and isn't immovable off his original ideas. Thats a good thing which he gets zero credit for around here, people are mad because he had one idea originally, which if you think about it makes no sense at all given what he ended up doing.

I agree with Bob Long. As I mentioned in the management thread when discussing Brackett, these kind of things happen all the time. Scouts fight for players they like to be selected/ranked high. GMs have their own ideas of what they want to do. When GMs don't get involved it can create a situation where the team overvalued players from certain leagues as the Canucks did in Gillis' early years. When GMs do get involved it could be the difference between selecting one player over the other, allowing goalies to be drafted early, selecting Russian players, or selecting overagers.

At the end of the day, allowing your scouts to make the selection only works if you have a great scouting staff that you can trust to make the selection. In most instances you want your GM to have oversight and evaluate his scouting staff because part of his job is to evaluate his staff.

With that said, I think most here would agree that you want the scouts to be doing most of the work in terms of who gets selected. So if the issue is that a GM wanted to select another player or trade down but ultimately listened to his scouts as Benning has reportedly done here with the Podkolzin pick it really is a non issue.

 

[Fatass]

Can we not have a reprise of the Benning vs Brackett draft wars? Pretty please?

The Benning v Bracket draft wars filter into every prospect picked during those years, especially the ones where Bracket had to fight Benning to pick, like Pods.
Pods, if these wars are true, is not a Benning guy. The cap is stagnant, and to sign guys we need to keep to compete now requires bad contracts (like Loui, Sutter, Baer, etc) to go. The sweetener to dump these contracts will be very high, especially in this new Covid cap era.
Added up suggests Benning could use Pods as sweetener, and Pods has his career flourish elsewhere.

 

[ChilliBilly]

The Benning v Bracket draft wars filter into every prospect picked during those years, especially the ones where Bracket had to fight Benning to pick, like Pods.
Pods, if these wars are true, is not a Benning guy. The cap is stagnant, and to sign guys we need to keep to compete now requires bad contracts (like Loui, Sutter, Baer, etc) to go. The sweetener to dump these contracts will be very high, especially in this new Covid cap era.
Added up suggests Benning could use Pods as sweetener, and Pods has his career flourish elsewhere.

Damn I sure hope you are wrong. Pods is going to be a good player, perhaps better than Horvat. How would you feel if the Canucks through in Horvat in a deal to get rid of Eriksson and/or some of the "meat and potato" guys.

 

[Fatass]

Damn I sure hope you are wrong. Pods is going to be a good player, perhaps better than Horvat. How would you feel if the Canucks through in Horvat in a deal to get rid of Eriksson and/or some of the "meat and potato" guys.

I hope I’m wrong too. I just have very little faith in Benning to properly build for the future (and peak years of the team’s chances to win) when winning now seems to too often be the basis of his decisions.
I think Pods will be a great NHL player, but Benning worries me.

 

[rypper]

The Podkolzin pick was the scouts. Benning wanted Broberg after seeing him at the WJC. Once he went to Edmonton, Jim wanted to trade back but the scouting team pushed for Podkolzin.

Obviously they made a compelling case because we selected him.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

That's your right, but it's still going against legitimate information to do so.

Iain MacIntyre is a reporter making a sourced statement.

Is there another disagreement between Benning and Brackett for the Podkolzin pick? I thought it was only the Petterson pick that was contested?

I dunno, I assume since Jim got up there and said the name at the end of the day he liked the pick. I don't buy into most of the Jim vs Judd stuff.

I wish he did. Smyl totally butchered the name, to the point I didn't even know who was drafted. One of the very few time I wish Jim did the speaking

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Is there another disagreement between Benning and Brackett for the Podkolzin pick? I thought it was only the Petterson pick that was contested?

The story (and I can't recall the source) was that Benning wanted to trade down from 10th overall as he wasn't that high on the players available, and Brackett and some of the scouts pushed to draft Pod. This disagreement could also have some connection to Brackett being silenced the next day and Benning going ham on his own.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

The story (and I can't recall the source) was that Benning wanted to trade down from 10th overall as he wasn't that high on the players available, and Brackett and some of the scouts pushed to draft Pod. This disagreement could also have some connection to Brackett being silenced the next day and Benning going ham on his own.

I wonder who Benning's target was trading down, and what assets we can get with such a move. I like Podkolzin but there are several other prospects that has very high upside in the teens. Would not be angry to move down if we can get one of Newhook, Soderstrom, Boldy, Caufield, Krebs or Heinola plus a sweetener.

 

[ChilliBilly]

I wonder who Benning's target was trading down, and what assets we can get with such a move. I like Podkolzin but there are several other prospects that has very high upside in the teens. Would not be angry to move down if we can get one of Newhook, Soderstrom, Boldy, Caufield, Krebs or Heinola plus a sweetener.

That was what pissed me off about the Juolevi pick .... there were 10 decent players behind him, and I am sure they could have got one of the teams to give up a pretty good piece to trade down. But apparently JB doesn't know how to play poker worth a damn.

 

[F A N]

That was what pissed me off about the Juolevi pick .... there were 10 decent players behind him, and I am sure they could have got one of the teams to give up a pretty good piece to trade down. But apparently JB doesn't know how to play poker worth a damn.

How many teams drafting in the top 10 have successfully pulled off the "trade down and select the player you want all along" feat in "recent" years? There have been a few picks for players (the last two being Lias Anderson and Bo Horvat picks) but no top 6 picks have changed hands at the draft since Luke Schenn. There hasn't been a team that traded a top 10 pick and moved down several spots since... Logan Couture?

I can only conclude that it is difficult to win a decent sized pot in the game of poker you wanted JB to play with Detroit drafting Seider, Columbus drafting PLD, and the Canucks failed attempt at moving down one spot and drafting Petey.

 

[sting101]

The Benning v Bracket draft wars filter into every prospect picked during those years, especially the ones where Bracket had to fight Benning to pick, like Pods.
Pods, if these wars are true, is not a Benning guy. The cap is stagnant, and to sign guys we need to keep to compete now requires bad contracts (like Loui, Sutter, Baer, etc) to go. The sweetener to dump these contracts will be very high, especially in this new Covid cap era.
Added up suggests Benning could use Pods as sweetener, and Pods has his career flourish elsewhere.

Why would he use Podkolzin? That is absurd?

Scenarios that need to play out first.

1. What is the exact cap number and what will Markstrom Tanev Toffoli Tryamkin Virtanen Stecher Leivo Gaudette command?

2. Can they get Eriksson to retire?
Maybe not right away but how long will he toil on the minors when he can rip up the remaining 5 million and actually play for a NHL team and make 1.5 million. Reality is he's probably saddled back without a compliance buy out for next year but we'll see if the league is willing to do anything because as it stands about 10 teams are in cap hell without the 2-3 million it was suppose to increase. unlikely but he's essentially stealing money at this point and Bogosian walked away from about 1.2 for freedom and Berglund did it to the tune of close to 12 million......dare to dream.

3. Will Michael Ferland be able to resume his career? Essentially he will become LTIR 3.5 permanently if he can't which gives the team some important room to sign Toffoli if so. Big unknown but he seems to be ready to play now so we will get an idea of his capability soon. Big question mark today.

4. Can they trade Sutter? If they eat 875k that would be one yr at 3.5 for a team that could flip him at the deadline. Might be worth a look if you need a shut down C. Injuries have derailed his career unfortunately though. 3.5 off the books would be huge. His buyout also provides 2.3 so that is also an option

5. Can they trade Baertschi? At 2.4 in real dollars and 27 he might be attractive to a retooling/rebuild team. Maybe a late addition? Planning for it will be tough. Buy out doesn't help

Worst case.....you cant move any of the above and Toffoli and Tanev walk.

Tryamkin Rafferty replace Tanev Fantenberg on D which is negligible due to Tanev's unlikely health and diminishing game. Both young players could also surprise

Ferland Leivo MacEwen replace Toffoli and Eriksson Motte Baertschi if were healthy go to Utica. The difference between these groups is also negligible and of course this is all IF they cannot move Baertschi and Sutter and don't want to seek cap relief through trades involving Virtanen and Stecher.

A lot of unanswered moves need to play out and none of them involve stupidly moving Podkolzin especially not because of some ridiculous notion that Pod is not Benning's guy

 

[Bob Long]

I'm not following your speculation after the first sentence, please clarify.

The weight of a sourced statement is static. Your acceptance of, or weighting of said statement is your subjectivity imposed upon the information being provided. It does not hold in arguments that cite these statements as reference points.

one reporter says one thing, another contracts it. Who are you to believe? there's so much anger and bs around Benning its ridiculous. There's enough known mistakes to be mad about but no, we have to go to twitter rumours now too to feed the anger. Its laughable imo.

 

[Bob Long]

The Podkolzin pick was the scouts. Benning wanted Broberg after seeing him at the WJC. Once he went to Edmonton, Jim wanted to trade back but the scouting team pushed for Podkolzin.

Obviously they made a compelling case because we selected him.

wut?

Jim's the boss, if you've forgotten. If he wanted someone else, they would have picked someone else. Why do some folks on here see the need to make a distinction in "who's pick" it is, when its Bennings call? this baffles me.

 

[rypper]

wut?

Jim's the boss, if you've forgotten. If he wanted someone else, they would have picked someone else. Why do some folks on here see the need to make a distinction in "who's pick" it is, when its Bennings call? this baffles me.

Read my entire post.

 

[F A N]

I was actually surprised so many posters liked the Podkolzin pick. In reality, I think many of us would have been happy trading down, getting an extra 2nd, and selecting a guy like Newhook or Krebs.

 

[Fatass]

I was actually surprised so many posters liked the Podkolzin pick. In reality, I think many of us would have been happy trading down, getting an extra 2nd, and selecting a guy like Newhook or Krebs.

Better the bird in hand than two in the bush. Plus Pods is the scout’s pick, and not Bennings. That’s a good sign for our firsts.

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

wut?

Jim's the boss, if you've forgotten. If he wanted someone else, they would have picked someone else. Why do some folks on here see the need to make a distinction in "who's pick" it is, when its Bennings call? this baffles me.

With every other NHL team and their fans, you don't hear this kind of stuff. The GMs and scouts are apparently always on the same page, all the time. They don't have internal debates about who wants who, because they all want the same player. The GMs backs off, and gives 100% control over to the scouts. The GMs end up getting all the credit for the drafting, and you never even hear the scouts' names. Other teams do it the right way.

Meanwhile in Van, anything good happens only despite the GM, never ever because of him. The GM won't let his scouts have full control. The GM also doesn't get credit for the drafts, while only 1 of the scouts gets all the credit while being propped up on a pedestal and worshipped, as the other scouts are completely dismissed. In fact, you can't even mention the words "Benning" and "drafted" in the same sentence, without offending the Brackett Boys.