Proposal: Vancouver-New Jersey

[GoodbyeLuongo]

I do wonder about a draft busts trade.

Olli Juolevi for Michael McLeod

I don't know how much Hope Nucks fans have for Juolevi though. McLeod can definitely be a 3rd line/4th line center who can outskate everyone, protect the puck, and pass the puck. Just don't ask him to score a goal.
Basically a poor mans travis zajac who can skate faster?

Juolevi has taken time, and played well in the AHL last year. And while he barely played in his lone playoff game, he looked pretty smooth. Vancouver is likely losing d-men in the offseason, they can't deal Juolevi

 

[AHLdepth]

So as a general consensus, info gathering session, I know that getting a first for that package is outlandish, but am seeing the possibility of packaging Baertschi+Virtanen?

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

We already have a #6 overall underwhelming player in Pavel Zacha. No real need to have another. Virtanen and Zacha are both good middle 6 players though for sure. Not sure if Tyrmatkin even would play here.

 

[TBF1972]

To NJ:

Jake Virtanen
Nikita Tryamkin (rights)
Sven Baertschi

To Van:

Vancouver's 1st 2020

Baertschi's a cap dump but could be a mentor for his fellow countryman Nico Hischier for one season.

Virtanen alone is not worth the 1st round pick. Tryamkin resigned with his KHL team and might never make it to NHL so he adds no value. And even you say Baertschi is a cap dump. Go figure.

 

[Cogburn]

We already have a #6 overall underwhelming player in Pavel Zacha. No real need to have another. Virtanen and Zacha are both good middle 6 players though for sure. Not sure if Tyrmatkin even would play here.

Apples and oranges. Zacha is taking a jack of all trades as opposed to a strict specialist role (not meant as any kind of insult) where as Virtanen seems to have been developed into more of a sniper or scorer off the rush as opposed the power forward he was projected to be.

For purely marketing purposes, I think New Jersey should acquire Virtanen and, say, Tkachuk, Monahan, Glass or Zadina. Call it the "Devil Line" or something.

If you're coach, president and GM don't try to make him "play like Pronger", and the area around your arena doesn't stink of pot, you stand a much better chance then we did initially.

 

[TBF1972]

$2.2 million is what they'd have to pay Baertschi. Hardly big. Virtanen would score 20 goals and provide some physicality to protect your small forwards. He had some good chemistry with Pettersson at times so might find that with Hughes. Tryamkin is a 6'7 260 lb wildcard that if he comes over season over would play in your top 4 for sure and dish out a ton of big hits. Would likely thrive in the East.
These boards vastly overrate mid-late first round picks, especially in a weak draft.

If Pettersson is also in the deal, I agree. Else the supposed good chemistry with him doesn't add any value here.

 

[go4hockey]

Canucks don't have their 2020 1st.

And it would be unwise to trade the 2021 1st pre TDL unless you're getting a player like Miller who helped the Canucks get to where they are.

Reading....... it can really help the conversation.

 

[TBF1972]

for saying a bad trade is bad?....

for not following the canucks 25 year old ex-prospect, who bailed for the khl. it's like you would say, ep isn't going to be better than gretzky and quinn better than orr. do you know anything at all?

 

[Cogburn]

Virtanen alone is not worth the 1st round pick. Tryamkin resigned with his KHL team and might never make it to NHL so he adds no value. And even you say Baertschi is a cap dump. Go figure.

Kapanen got one, and Virtanen out scored him (but matched his overall points in the same number of games) and brings other elements to the game as well. His QO is also less then Kapanen, and is a month younger, for what ever that is worth. Kapanen got the 15th overall, which is about as close to the middle of the 1st round as you can get, save the 16th overall I guess.

He definitely made the NHL, he is in Russia by choice, for family/personal reasons. He reupped because of travel restrictions and Covid-19, according to his agent. If he adds no value, by all means, I'm happy to wait for him to come back.

Baertschi is, indeed, a cap dump. That is how we're valuing him, although I still feel he should have been in our top six all season. He wasn't, and I think someone taking him in will get an asset out of it, in addition to what ever asset we surrender.

 

[TBF1972]

Look where he is in Goals/Points/ and minutes for this years RWers, then get back to me.
Jake trajectory has been a steady climb year over year.........
His stats are more 2nd line, especially if you compare his minutes per game
Remember, he is playing behind Boeser and Toffoli in Vancouver

for years he couldn't get by toffoli and boeser is the other guy vancouver fans try to trade.

 

[Cogburn]

for not following the canucks 25 year old ex-prospect, who bailed for the khl. it's like you would say, ep isn't going to be better than gretzky and quinn better than orr. do you know anything at all?

But both EP and Quinn are better than both those players, if we compared both sets of players as of 2020.

 

[CraigsList]

Reading....... it can really help the conversation.

And if you scrolled down you would see I reread it. It can really help move the conversation if you read more.

 

[TBF1972]

Kapanen got one, and Virtanen out scored him (but matched his overall points in the same number of games) and brings other elements to the game as well. His QO is also less then Kapanen, and is a month younger, for what ever that is worth. Kapanen got the 15th overall, which is about as close to the middle of the 1st round as you can get, save the 16th overall I guess.

He definitely made the NHL, he is in Russia by choice, for family/personal reasons. He reupped because of travel restrictions and Covid-19, according to his agent. If he adds no value, by all means, I'm happy to wait for him to come back.

Baertschi is, indeed, a cap dump. That is how we're valuing him, although I still feel he should have been in our top six all season. He wasn't, and I think someone taking him in will get an asset out of it, in addition to what ever asset we surrender.

Tyler Myers also got a 5 year 6 million contract with trade protection. GMs aren't perfect. Just because a GM overpaid for Kapanen, doesn't mean you can expect an overpayment for Virtanen. Tryamkin doesn't want to play for Vancouver and maybe not in the NHL at all. So his value is close to zero and Baertschi's value is negative. There is no way this package is worth a first round pick.
Reality is Vancouver won't keep all their core players without bribing another team to take a cap dump. This is the opposite of it.

 

[zar]

If it was Zacha, and the Canucks had an extra 1st (that was in the 20’s), I would consider it.

I wouldn't expect a Canucks fans to say that... personally I think it would be a bad trade for the Canucks. As an Oiler fan, I endorse it!

 

[Cogburn]

Tyler Myers also got a 5 year 6 million contract with trade protection. GMs aren't perfect. Just because a GM overpaid for Kapanen, doesn't mean you can expect an overpayment for Virtanen. Tryamkin doesn't want to play for Vancouver and maybe not in the NHL at all. So his value is close to zero and Baertschi's value is negative. There is no way this package is worth a first round pick.
Reality is Vancouver won't keep all their core players without bribing another team to take a cap dump. This is the opposite of it.

If we had a comparable defense man to Myers, who was a free agent, played the same role, brought the same tools, and put up identical production, then yes, I'd say Myers' contract set the market. It might not be identical, but someone that might have got 4.5 would likely be pushing for 6 as well, if their agent is worth a damn anyway.

Tryamkin has said the exact opposite (both in English through his agent, Todd Diamond, and as direct quotes in Russian that have been translated). I will take what I've heard from the horse's mouth, or as close to it as possible.

Tryamkin is not worth 0. You value him at 0, so we're happy to keep him, rather then push the issue. That is only way he is worth nothing, by not including him.

This trade offer takes nothing about what most of our fans, nor the team, needs and is likely just someone spitballing. It doesn't do anything but return a pick to us, which most of us are very happy with the return we got for it.

Our core players are either under contract (Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat, Boeser, Edler), or are a top priority to resign, with ample cap space to do so (Markstrom). The cap we need would be to sign Tanev, Toffoli, Gaudette, Virtanen, Stecher and other important players, but definitely not core players. We are very open to bribing a team to take a bad contract (Eriksson) or a single year cap dump (the aforementioned Baertschi, Sutter) though, yes. Some Detroit fans have been willing to take Eriksson for Demko. Sutter is having a very good playoffs, and he might even play himself into neutral value territory to a team needing a center. One year of cap space for Baertschi (3.366,666 if you take a chance of him, or 2.196,666 in the minors) isn't going to cost Virtanen or other key assets. Toronto retained 1.1 million on Lehner's contract in the trade between Chicago and Las Vegas for a 5th round pick. Granted that was a deadline deal, but what does that work out to? 2-3 5th round picks? That's nothing.

 

[FireGorton]

Lol, it was too early in the morning.

Okay R Truth

 

[devils29]

Not much of a hockey fan are you?

Correct. I’m not a fan at all because I think the trade is bad. Yup totally

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Kapanen got one, and Virtanen out scored him (but matched his overall points in the same number of games) and brings other elements to the game as well. His QO is also less then Kapanen, and is a month younger, for what ever that is worth. Kapanen got the 15th overall, which is about as close to the middle of the 1st round as you can get, save the 16th overall I guess.

He definitely made the NHL, he is in Russia by choice, for family/personal reasons. He reupped because of travel restrictions and Covid-19, according to his agent. If he adds no value, by all means, I'm happy to wait for him to come back.

Baertschi is, indeed, a cap dump. That is how we're valuing him, although I still feel he should have been in our top six all season. He wasn't, and I think someone taking him in will get an asset out of it, in addition to what ever asset we surrender.

Kapanen is pretty good at hockey and Virtanen stinks. He will not return a 1st.

 

[Favin]

A lot of devils fans have soured on Wood TBH. Dude can’t stay out of the box or on his feet

Most Devils fans are ready to dump Miles Wood for a bag of pucks because he's dumb as a rock and doesn't play to his size. He is worse than the sum of his parts and has never lived up to the potential his physical skills would suggest.

See, his penalty minutes are not what bothers me about his game. It is that he is limited to one-side of ice (left) and a straight-line only player. Doesn't matter how much size/speed he brings, with a little scouting, its easy to defend.

I'll do Virtanen and Vancouver's unproctected 2021 1st round pick next year for Vancouver's 2020 1st round pick this year and 2021 2nd round pick.

Smart idea. Better yet, offer the 2020 1st for the 2021 1st straight up. 2021 is a better draft and VAN's pick is more likely to be closer to middle of round.

 

[Guttersniped]

Tryamkin turns 26 tomorrow, is signed to a KHL team and Vancouver/whomever has his rights has to sign him before his 27th birthday (8/30/21) or he’s a UFA. He still has some sort of theoretical value, he’s under team control until he isn’t, but Tryamkin’s team rights are at best a very very minor toss-in.

Teams often throw in team rights to older European players in bigger trades rather than give up a real prospect who’s recently drafted or signed because it’s an easy add and in almost every case nothing comes of it. Maybe Vancouver brings him over for 21-22 and he makes the team again at 27, if so then congrats. He still isn’t a defensive prospect or player that I have any interest in for the Devils’ future.

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

Kapanen is pretty good at hockey and Virtanen stinks. He will not return a 1st.

Theres a few reasons why Jake Virtanen’s game hasn’t taken off but him “not being good at hockey” ain’t one of them

 

[Guttersniped]

We are very open to bribing a team to take a bad contract (Eriksson) or a single year cap dump (the aforementioned Baertschi, Sutter) though, yes. Some Detroit fans have been willing to take Eriksson for Demko. Sutter is having a very good playoffs, and he might even play himself into neutral value territory to a team needing a center. One year of cap space for Baertschi (3.366,666 if you take a chance of him, or 2.196,666 in the minors) isn't going to cost Virtanen or other key assets. Toronto retained 1.1 million on Lehner's contract in the trade between Chicago and Las Vegas for a 5th round pick. Granted that was a deadline deal, but what does that work out to? 2-3 5th round picks? That's nothing.

A deadline deal means you have the player for 20 games, I’m not a mathematician but I believe that’s 1/4 of the season so, no, it’s doesn’t work out to that. I don’t know what Van needs to do to make their cap work with the players they want but Baertschi is getting paid 2.4m in salary next year and moving that will take some doing. The complaints in this thread were about how a Virtanen for a 1st deal can’t also include a big salary dump with nothing of value coming from Van to make up for it.

 

[Canuck86]

Canucks don't have their 2020 1st.

And it would be unwise to trade the 2021 1st pre TDL unless you're getting a player like Miller who helped the Canucks get to where they are.

Guess Alberta people still can't read even in the year 2020....haha!!

 

[Cogburn]

Kapanen is pretty good at hockey and Virtanen stinks. He will not return a 1st.

Any measurable stats say otherwise, but sure. If Kap was drafted 6th overall and Virtanen went 24th, would you feel the same way?

We're not looking for a first necessarily, but to dump salary. If someone is sniffing around Virtanen, they'll be asked to take a cap dump back.

 

[Cogburn]

A deadline deal means you have the player for 20 games, I’m not a mathematician but I believe that’s 1/4 of the season so, no, it’s doesn’t work out to that. I don’t know what Van needs to do to make their cap work with the players they want but Baertschi is getting paid 2.4m in salary next year and moving that will take some doing. The complaints in this thread were about how a Virtanen for a 1st deal can’t also include a big salary dump with nothing of value coming from Van to make up for it.

To me, dead salary is dead salary. Toronto was expected to be a playoff team, so even that 1.1 million was at a premium (I think that was almost to the point of maxing out Toronto's cap space, including LTIR). They also paid a first to drop 6 million the previous summer, in absolute dead cap space for a year, so if we're scaling, this can give us a framework for value. Baertschi and Sutter will not cost as much Marleau, but will not cost as little as Lehner's retention.

I'm happy with either a first (or equivilant value) or a large dump (not Baertschi). I'd prefer the cap dump to be honest.

I also consider Tryamkin of some value, as he was expected back here if not for Covid-19. Is he worth a premium asset? Of course not. He would be stepping in to our top six on the right side. A young, big, right side D (he is a LHD) has value. He has every intention of returning to the NHL, going of statements he has made, and only signed his one year contract to stay at home in July, well into the Covid shutdown. Saying he might return to the NHL is just looking for a reason to not place value on the asset. It's like saying LaFreniere might demand a trade, or might break his back in a car crash, so he has no value, in that yes, both those things could happen, but there is no evidence that either will.