Confirmed Signing with Link: [VAN] Tucker Poolman signs with the Canucks (4 years, $2.5M AAV)

bossram

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Lol, do you really thing any of those guys would re-sign for their current contracts especially during FA? Not to mention they might be able to play defense but they would all be a black hole on offense. Like literally nothing on offense. Also Bogosian has stated he would not come to Canada before. Theres more going on with these players than just being a robot and taking discounts all the time. If you were GM you would not be signing perfect contracts every time.

Certainly not.

But I would also not be signing these chaotically bad ones.

If I literally only had the ability to take Benning's phone away, I would've saved the Canucks from Gudbranson, Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, Roussell, Ferland, Myers, Sbisa, Virtanen...you get the picture.

I panned everyone of these acquisitions/signings at the time. I was proven right every time. So were a lot of other people. Why anyone still gives Benning any benefit of the doubt is beyond me,
 

bossram

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It's not about haggling the deal it's about not signing these guys that are in bidding wars at all. Lots of players sign for cheap deals every year. The Canucks signed Benn and Fantenberg the same offseason. Benn for 2 million, Fanta for 850K. Fanta ended up taking Benn's job for half of the season and overall they ended up bringing similar value. If they had signed a similar player to Fantenberg to split time for another 850K, suddenly they free up 1.15 million for the rest of the roster and end up with the same value. Poolman is very similar to Benn in that there's a decent chance that someone could reasonably replicate his performance for under a million.

Regal, you're gonna confuse the BenningBros with your concept of "value contracts" and "not overpaying marginal players".
 

John Johnson

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Apr 11, 2019
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It's not about haggling the deal it's about not signing these guys that are in bidding wars at all. Lots of players sign for cheap deals every year. The Canucks signed Benn and Fantenberg the same offseason. Benn for 2 million, Fanta for 850K. Fanta ended up taking Benn's job for half of the season and overall they ended up bringing similar value. If they had signed a similar player to Fantenberg to split time for another 850K, suddenly they free up 1.15 million for the rest of the roster and end up with the same value. Poolman is very similar to Benn in that there's a decent chance that someone could reasonably replicate his performance for under a million.
If you constantly let players walk because they are asking for 1 mil more than you want to pay them during FA then you get nothing done and leave holes all over your roster. So yes a lot of it has to do with negotiating. Sure maybe a cheaper guy plays better over the season, but nobody knows if thats gonna happen for sure or not so you need a bit of insurance. Otherwise you can try and sign every player you want for league min but thats not a very good plan than really any GM has ever done, only Hf forum posters think thats a good idea.
 

John Johnson

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Certainly not.

But I would also not be signing these chaotically bad ones.

If I literally only had the ability to take Benning's phone away, I would've saved the Canucks from Gudbranson, Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, Roussell, Ferland, Myers, Sbisa, Virtanen...you get the picture.

I panned everyone of these acquisitions/signings at the time. I was proven right every time. So were a lot of other people. Why anyone still gives Benning any benefit of the doubt is beyond me,
Im not giving Benning the benefit of the doubt but there was probably multiple GMs offering Poolman a similar contract. Look at the contracts given out in league this year and basically every year in FA. These players have more leverage than you think. Not to mention we're talking about overpaying by like 1 mil. Honestly its sad to see people go into extreme detail of why its a bad contract when its literaly a 1 mil over payment. Or let me guess, he should've signed for league min? If only we could sign every single player for league min, but them someone would probably complain that a contract is 1 year too long.
 

John Johnson

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Regal, you're gonna confuse the BenningBros with your concept of "value contracts" and "not overpaying marginal players".
Don't call me a Benning bro btw, I don't like Benning as a GM. I just think the over reaction to this contract of all contracts is ridiculous. Theres being a Benning bro, and theres being a complete anti Benning who will go to great detail as to complain about every single move by the man. I am somewhere in between because I like to keep a level head about things.
 

Regal

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If you constantly let players walk because they are asking for 1 mil more than you want to pay them during FA then you get nothing done and leave holes all over your roster. So yes a lot of it has to do with negotiating. Sure maybe a cheaper guy plays better over the season, but nobody knows if thats gonna happen for sure or not so you need a bit of insurance. Otherwise you can try and sign every player you want for league min but thats not a very good plan than really any GM has ever done, only Hf forum posters think thats a good idea.

These aren't players who make a difference though, that's the problem with that mentality. GMs do this because they're concerned with exactly what you're saying, but it's because most people tend to play things safe when there's real consequences despite the numbers staring them in the face. It's the same reason why NFL coaches are scared to go for it on 4th downs even though statistically it's often the best play. That doesn't mean it's the correct move. There's so much talent in and just outside of the league that there's very little drop-off by replacing these players on the cheap, and far more benefit by allocating that money elsewhere.
 

SurferBroChad

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Don't call me a Benning bro btw, I don't like Benning as a GM. I just think the over reaction to this contract of all contracts is ridiculous. Theres being a Benning bro, and theres being a complete anti Benning who will go to great detail as to complain about every single move by the man. I am somewhere in between because I like to keep a level head about things.
this is a good sign you dont live in your parents basement
 

John Johnson

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These aren't players who make a difference though, that's the problem with that mentality. GMs do this because they're concerned with exactly what you're saying, but it's because most people tend to play things safe when there's real consequences despite the numbers staring them in the face. It's the same reason why NFL coaches are scared to go for it on 4th downs even though statistically it's often the best play. That doesn't mean it's the correct move. There's so much talent in and just outside of the league that there's very little drop-off by replacing these players on the cheap, and far more benefit by allocating that money elsewhere.
Right so then you're the GM now and FA starts, what are the moves you make? Do you sign every star player to a steal contract because somehow you have the best negotiating tactics, or do you stand pat and let your roster sink with all its holes? Or do you do what Benning and many other GMs have done this FA and sign a player with a slight overpayment to add necessary depth to fill thise holes on your team. I mean you could always make another trade and spend more assets trying to acquire a player who may or may not give you what you need.
 

JetsFan815

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OK #6 d-man in sheltered minutes, not sure why Canucks felt the need to give him 4 years of term. He's the kind of player you sign on a 1-2 year deal at most to round out the roster as someone who can be pushed down to 7D if one of the younger players wins a spot on the top-6.
 
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bossram

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Im not giving Benning the benefit of the doubt but there was probably multiple GMs offering Poolman a similar contract. Look at the contracts given out in league this year and basically every year in FA. These players have more leverage than you think. Not to mention we're talking about overpaying by like 1 mil. Honestly its sad to see people go into extreme detail of why its a bad contract when its literaly a 1 mil over payment. Or let me guess, he should've signed for league min? If only we could sign every single player for league min, but them someone would probably complain that a contract is 1 year too long.

Then you...just don't sign them. Because other team are signing guys to bad deals, you have to as well? That's the "if you're friend jumped off a bridge argument".

Overpaying by $1M is significant when you do it constantly. Good god man. This is the same excuse people were using on Beagle/Roussell/Eriksson who they just had to pay to dump. Like, can we never learn here? Overpaying depth players on dollars and term is bad and unnecessary? This contract is going to pan out exactly the same as the others I just mentioned.
 

sandwichbird2023

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If you constantly let players walk because they are asking for 1 mil more than you want to pay them during FA then you get nothing done and leave holes all over your roster. So yes a lot of it has to do with negotiating. Sure maybe a cheaper guy plays better over the season, but nobody knows if thats gonna happen for sure or not so you need a bit of insurance. Otherwise you can try and sign every player you want for league min but thats not a very good plan than really any GM has ever done, only Hf forum posters think thats a good idea.
If you overpay everybody by 1 mil just to "get things done" then on a 23 men roster you are overpaying by 23 mil. That is just an insane % of the cap to overpay! If you are ever overpaying, that should be to your star players, the difference makers, like EP/Hughes/Horvat, not your Poolman/Beagle/Roussel/Eriksson/Myers/etc.
So Benning doesn't haggle, does that mean that there are no holes all over the roster? If make it sound like negotiating is actually a bad thing, and the Vancouver Canucks GM should just give their UFA targets a blank cheque lest we "get nothing done." Hows that working out for us?
 

bossram

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Don't call me a Benning bro btw, I don't like Benning as a GM. I just think the over reaction to this contract of all contracts is ridiculous. Theres being a Benning bro, and theres being a complete anti Benning who will go to great detail as to complain about every single move by the man. I am somewhere in between because I like to keep a level head about things.

I am completely level-headed. Every one of my opinions is an honest assessment. I'm not "anti-Benning" for the sake of it.

Benning just rarely makes good moves. That is the reality of it. Like Sutter and Schenn on very cheap deals is fine. That's what the Canucks should be doing with bottom-of-the-lineup players. Not signing them at twice their worth to 4-year deals.
 

John Johnson

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Then you...just don't sign them. Because other team are signing guys to bad deals, you have to as well? That's the "if you're friend jumped off a bridge argument".

Overpaying by $1M is significant when you do it constantly. Good god man. This is the same excuse people were using on Beagle/Roussell/Eriksson who they just had to pay to dump. Like, can we never learn here? Overpaying depth players on dollars and term is bad and unnecessary? This contract is going to pan out exactly the same as the others I just mentioned.
So you expect Benning to be the only GM in the league who doesn't over pay slightly to fill a needed hole on their roster? Players aren't gonna take a discount every damn time just because YOU think they should. Why don't you try and apply to become the GM of any team and see how well you sign players during FA. I bet you would just get a steal of a contract every time right? Or noo you would just stand pat and leave holes right, can always play the AHL depth! Oh no wait you would sign those aging vets with zero offense to league minimum contracts like you were talking about. Seriously though what would you realistically do that would be better than this?
 
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John Johnson

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If you overpay everybody by 1 mil just to "get things done" then on a 23 men roster you are overpaying by 23 mil. That is just an insane % of the cap to overpay! If you are ever overpaying, that should be to your star players, the difference makers, like EP/Hughes/Horvat, not your Poolman/Beagle/Roussel/Eriksson/Myers/etc.
So Benning doesn't haggle, does that mean that there are no holes all over the roster? If make it sound like negotiating is actually a bad thing, and the Vancouver Canucks GM should just give their UFA targets a blank cheque lest we "get nothing done." Hows that working out for us?
Thing is though you are not filling your entire team with FAs. With RFAs there is more team leverage so you get better deals. FA is much different, remember that these players aren't robots and negotiate their contracts. Besides you people would complain if he overpayed the star players too be real.
 

John Johnson

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I am completely level-headed. Every one of my opinions is an honest assessment. I'm not "anti-Benning" for the sake of it.

Benning just rarely makes good moves. That is the reality of it. Like Sutter and Schenn on very cheap deals is fine. That's what the Canucks should be doing with bottom-of-the-lineup players. Not signing them at twice their worth to 4-year deals.
Its unrealistic to think that every player you sign, especially in FA, to be had for 1 mil or less. But I agree Benning rarely makes good moves, just that this one is odd to point out as being one of the bad ones.
 

nucksflailtogether

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Don't call me a Benning bro btw, I don't like Benning as a GM. I just think the over reaction to this contract of all contracts is ridiculous. Theres being a Benning bro, and theres being a complete anti Benning who will go to great detail as to complain about every single move by the man. I am somewhere in between because I like to keep a level head about things.
Anything less than a hate filled, Benning protester makes you a bro, bro. That's hf canucks.
 

bossram

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Its unrealistic to think that every player you sign, especially in FA, to be had for 1 mil or less. But I agree Benning rarely makes good moves, just that this one is odd to point out as being one of the bad ones.

Where did I say that? What I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to fill out the bottom-end of your roster with $1 million types. Not to never sign a bigger UFA.

I'm pointing out this is a bad move because it's a bad move. It's in exactly the same vein as the Beagle/Roussell signings and is going to pan out the same way.
 

Cornwallace

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I bet agents just ask Benning for an extra year on contracts like it's some sort of meme amongst player agents
 

Regal

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Right so then you're the GM now and FA starts, what are the moves you make? Do you sign every star player to a steal contract because somehow you have the best negotiating tactics, or do you stand pat and let your roster sink with all its holes? Or do you do what Benning and many other GMs have done this FA and sign a player with a slight overpayment to add necessary depth to fill thise holes on your team. I mean you could always make another trade and spend more assets trying to acquire a player who may or may not give you what you need.

Oh dear, lots of unnecessary ridiculous assumptions about negotiations here, but just to simplify, a team doesn't need to spent to the cap every year just because they have the space. I'm not arguing that Benning should be signing big names, I'm arguing that cap flexibility is always important as it helps you to make moves should good ones arise, and a lack of flexibility causes you to give up assets to move cap to make moves you want, as Benning has had to do this offseason. Hamonic and Halak deals are fine, but #3 RD is not a huge hole to fill, so I don't waste 4 years on a player like Poolman, a guy in his mid-20s with limited upside, to try to fill it. I look to find someone who can play there on a cheaper, shorter deal, as there will be players that sign those deals and the team isn't a contender so there's no sense in trying to fill it on a long term deal that might handcuff you later, and hopefully in time, it can be filled through the organization, since I wouldn't be giving out picks like candy, like Benning. Who those players are, I don't know, I'm not talking to agents, but those deals are clearly out there as they're signed every season.
 
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Ita

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So you expect Benning to be the only GM in the league who doesn't over pay slightly to fill a needed hole on their roster? Players aren't gonna take a discount every damn time just because YOU think they should. Why don't you try and apply to become the GM of any team and see how well you sign players during FA. I bet you would just get a steal of a contract every time right? Or noo you would just stand pat and leave holes right, can always play the AHL depth! Oh no wait you would sign those aging vets with zero offense to league minimum contracts like you were talking about. Seriously though what would you realistically do that would be better than this?

Not signing a #6/7 does not leave a "hole" in your roster. These are replacement level players and a dime a dozen. Many are fighting for a NHL job.

Judging by the way you write you sound very young. Maybe when you grow up you will get a better perspective and understanding for the cap.

"I bet you would just get a steal of a contract every time right?"

Strawman argument. He's arguing that you shouldn't overpay UFA, which is very different from trying to sign a "steal" of contact with them. If you can't tell the difference between the two you should work on your reading comprenshion.
 

John Johnson

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Apr 11, 2019
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Oh dear, lots of unnecessary ridiculous assumptions about negotiations here, but just to simplify, a team doesn't need to spent to the cap every year just because they have the space. #3 RD is not a huge hole to fill. I don't waste 4 years on a player like Poolman to try to fill it. I look to find someone who can play there on a cheaper, shorter deal, as there will be players that sign those deals and the team isn't a contender so there's no sense in trying to fill it on a long term deal that might handcuff you later. Who those players are, I don't know, I'm not talking to agents, but those deals are clearly out there as they're signed every season.
Like I said, if you could get every player you try to sign to get on board with your idea of just "sign for league min bro 1 year only" Im sure every GM would be doing that but in FA almost every player has the leverage in talks. These are the guys that have to uproot their families or themselves to go to a different city and team. You have to remember the human aspect of all this. And please, enlighten me on who the Canucks should have picked up for league minimum short term? Because when I look at the FA board almost no one pops up. Unless of course you want strictly AHL reclamation projects and hopefully one of them is decent, like throwing darts at a board blindfolded. This whole conversation is over 1 mil anyways wtf are we arguing about lol.
 

John Johnson

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Apr 11, 2019
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Not signing a #6/7 does not leave a "hole" in your roster. These are replacement level players and a dime a dozen. Many are fighting for a NHL job.

Judging by the way you write you sound very young. Maybe when you grow up you will get a better perspective and understanding for the cap.

"I bet you would just get a steal of a contract every time right?"

Strawman argument. He's arguing that you shouldn't overpay UFA, which is very different from trying to sign a "steal" of contact with them. If you can't tell the difference between the two you should work on your reading comprenshion.
Maybe you should grow up and not insult people directly over arguing whether or not a player is overpaid by 1 mil. But since you're such a smartass, what would you have done as GM? Surely you would be GM of the year and sign awesome players for great contracts right? Or no just leave your team be as is? Not always the best way of doing things my man.
 

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