Confirmed with Link: [VAN/TOR] Canucks acquire F Sam Lafferty for 2024 5th Round Pick

[Hit the post]

Yeah, he who must not be named acquired a ton of these guys who "know how to win" for 5x the price we were paying equally talented players. Most of these bottom of the rosters just end up taking up absorpant amounts of cap space on the 4th line rather than showing anything helpful, as we've seen firsthand in Vancouver.

Cole to me is the kind of veteran who actually helps on this front, as he's played a decent-sized role on contending teams that have both won & gone deep. The fact that he and Beagle had the same AAV during their time as Canucks is absolutely wild to me.

Jethro Bodine gave Beagle a NTC.

 

[HairyKneel]

It must be repeated that Lucic in his prime was on the ice when Cooke took out Savard with a cheap shot

Brad May was also on the ice when Markus got nailed. Stupid officials are culpable in that whole fiasco for not letting May pound that puke Steve Moore. I’d take a prime younger version of May today. He was a solid top 9 forward the first half of his career that knew when to throw down and was a good teammate.

Cooke was an absolute predator on the ice. One of the dirtiest players in the last 30 years

 

[mriswith]

The only toughness that works is when the whole team buys in and plays like a wolf pack or brotherhood. If there's a problem and a teammate is getting into it with someone, you need everyone to instantly jump in and back them up.

One of the worst parts of the Green era was watching new acquisitions join the team, get in scraps backing up a teammate but quickly find out that no one else had their back, and toughness was gone after a few games. I remember when Toffoli first joined the team and was still Sutter trained on team toughness it was painful watching him go in alone 2v5 with whoever needed help and no other backup arrived.

If everyone buys in you don't need a tough guy, and if people aren't buying in then a tough guy can't help. The only time a tough guy actually helps is when Jacobs is your teams owner so the rules don't exist when they go headhunting.

 

[Grantham]

The only toughness that works is when the whole team buys in and plays like a wolf pack or brotherhood. If there's a problem and a teammate is getting into it with someone, you need everyone to instantly jump in and back them up.

One of the worst parts of the Green era was watching new acquisitions join the team, get in scraps backing up a teammate but quickly find out that no one else had their back, and toughness was gone after a few games. I remember when Toffoli first joined the team and was still Sutter trained on team toughness it was painful watching him go in alone 2v5 with whoever needed help and no other backup arrived.

If everyone buys in you don't need a tough guy, and if people aren't buying in then a tough guy can't help. The only time a tough guy actually helps is when Jacobs is your teams owner so the rules don't exist when they go headhunting.

Totally agree.

How awesome was it watching all five Lightning players throw off their gloves when Bortuzzo ran Vasilevskiy?

Holy cow was that incredible. Thats why that team is so good, they play for each other and have each others backs. I'm starting to see the Canucks starting to develop that mentality

​

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Brad May was also on the ice when Markus got nailed. Stupid officials are culpable in that whole fiasco for not letting May pound that puke Steve Moore. I’d take a prime younger version of May today. He was a solid top 9 forward the first half of his career that knew when to throw down and was a good teammate.

Cooke was an absolute predator on the ice. One of the dirtiest players in the last 30 years

Cooke was a friggin turtle, he played with an edge, could put up goals and hit heavy ( elbows up ) but when it came time to answer he turtled like you wouldn’t believe.

 

[HairyKneel]

Cooke was a friggin turtle, he played with an edge, could put up goals and hit heavy ( elbows up ) but when it came time to answer he turtled like you wouldn’t believe.

totally agree. he would head hunt or clip a guy with his knee. Zero respect for his fellow NHL brethren. Rutuu was a prick but at least he would fight when he cheap shotted someone. I hate Cooke.

 

[F A N]

Cooke was a friggin turtle, he played with an edge, could put up goals and hit heavy ( elbows up ) but when it came time to answer he turtled like you wouldn’t believe.

totally agree. he would head hunt or clip a guy with his knee. Zero respect for his fellow NHL brethren. Rutuu was a prick but at least he would fight when he cheap shotted someone. I hate Cooke.

I didn't remember Cooke being a cheap shot artist when he was a Canuck (maybe his last year here?) Nothing that was shockingly outside of the agitator role. After leaving here he started sticking out his knee and headshotting players. Or maybe I'm misremembering?

As for his turtling, I'm not really sure what he can do. Should he be expected to fight the other team's heavy weight fighter? No. And he sucks at fighting so he's going to get beaten up. As a fan, I don't really want a player to fight only to lose the fight so badly that it's embarrassing. So outside of not having a player who plays like a rat, I'm not even sure telling him to fight his own battles is the way to go. Ruutu was criticized for picking who he chooses to fight too. But hey he's actually a good fighter and he usually wins his fights. Ruutu was definitely a solid MW fighter.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

I didn't remember Cooke being a cheap shot artist when he was a Canuck (maybe his last year here?) Nothing that was shockingly outside of the agitator role. After leaving here he started sticking out his knee and headshotting players. Or maybe I'm misremembering?

As for his turtling, I'm not really sure what he can do. Should he be expected to fight the other team's heavy weight fighter? No. And he sucks at fighting so he's going to get beaten up. As a fan, I don't really want a player to fight only to lose the fight so badly that it's embarrassing. So outside of not having a player who plays like a rat, I'm not even sure telling him to fight his own battles is the way to go. Ruutu was criticized for picking who he chooses to fight too. But hey he's actually a good fighter and he usually wins his fights. Ruutu was definitely a solid MW fighter.

It’s part of the code, if you are going to take a run at players you have to answer for it. I’ve seen games where a non-fighter had messed up another guy and had to endure the following game having his head punched in on maybe three occasions, he was a lousy fighter but he took his lumps

Is this old school way of playing the game? Yes absolutely but Cooke played in that era.

On fighting, it’s not important to me anymore, it use to be a part of enjoyed when I was young, I don’t need it in the game nor do I want it gone…the game is way better without the enforcer.

 

[tantalum]

totally agree. he would head hunt or clip a guy with his knee. Zero respect for his fellow NHL brethren. Rutuu was a prick but at least he would fight when he cheap shotted someone. I hate Cooke.

His teammates also started to hate him because they would be stuck cleaning up his messes.

 

[MS]

It's weird because Cooke was literally here for 10 years and was approaching top-10 all-time in franchise GP when he was traded.

And for, like, the first 8 nobody considered him a particularly dirty player. He was actually one of the biggest fan favourites through the WCE era - one of Larscheid's catch phrases was 'EVERYONE LOVES THE COOKER!' - and basically just known as a hard-working, physical energy player.

It was only in the last year or two after some regime/coaching changes plus some changing attitudes toward what was acceptable in terms of hitting that things changed, and it was almost overnight. There was a game where Cooke flattened Iginla and Ohlund ended up fighting Iginla and all of a sudden he was this turtling villain that the fans hated and wanted gone.

 

[sting101]

His teammates also started to hate him because they would be stuck cleaning up his messes.

If i remember correctly i believe Ohlund got beat up for having to try and stick up for that clown and within a week he was traded for Pettinger as this had happened far too many times and the Canucks had enough.

Cooke was a rat. No other way to sugar coat it. It's fair to say he had to be physical to be effective at his job but like anything in life your actions come with consequences.

When you start pounding the other teams best players and don't answer for it the opposition is gonna get its pound of flesh. If that's a detriment to your teammates then you're not picking your spots correctly and doing a disservice.

FuXX Matt Cooke he couldn't figure that out or didn't care. He left a lot of teammates and opposition players hurt because of it and made a living targeting the stars and the reasons fans came to watch. No respect for the way he conducted himself.

Edit: MS beat me too it i see....yes Iginla that's right. i disagree about people not noticing how dirty he was. Me and my buddies couldn't stand that POS and that's saying a lot considering were Canuck fans. It wasn't overnight for us but sure once the media gets a narrative it's probably hard to turn back on that for some fans

My recollection was in his first few yrs he was a good energy player at top speed and effort that could contribute. As things wore on he started struggling as his skills were sub standard for a top9 player so he adapted his game to an agitator role which is fine to keep a 3rd line job but he crossed the line a lot and seldom answered for it which left a trail of waste in his path. He wore out his welcome here and i hated when Larscheid made that claim.

 

[Vector]

It's weird because Cooke was literally here for 10 years and was approaching top-10 all-time in franchise GP when he was traded.

And for, like, the first 8 nobody considered him a particularly dirty player. He was actually one of the biggest fan favourites through the WCE era - one of Larscheid's catch phrases was 'EVERYONE LOVES THE COOKER!' - and basically just known as a hard-working, physical energy player.

It was only in the last year or two after some regime/coaching changes plus some changing attitudes toward what was acceptable in terms of hitting that things changed, and it was almost overnight. There was a game where Cooke flattened Iginla and Ohlund ended up fighting Iginla and all of a sudden he was this turtling villain that the fans hated and wanted gone.

Was thinking of this too. Everyone loved the Cookie Monster and his playoff heroics. He didn't receive a suspension until spearing Matt Johnson, who is now homeless in California, in 2004 and his run-ins with going over the line didn't start until after he left the Canucks.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

The only toughness that works is when the whole team buys in and plays like a wolf pack or brotherhood. If there's a problem and a teammate is getting into it with someone, you need everyone to instantly jump in and back them up.

One of the worst parts of the Green era was watching new acquisitions join the team, get in scraps backing up a teammate but quickly find out that no one else had their back, and toughness was gone after a few games. I remember when Toffoli first joined the team and was still Sutter trained on team toughness it was painful watching him go in alone 2v5 with whoever needed help and no other backup arrived.

If everyone buys in you don't need a tough guy, and if people aren't buying in then a tough guy can't help. The only time a tough guy actually helps is when Jacobs is your teams owner so the rules don't exist when they go headhunting.

I've always said, you want players who are tough, not tough players.

Meaning, guys on the team that have the ability to stand up for other players, and will, but it's not their primary feature. Bieksa, Tkachuks, Prust, Foligno, etc

I think it's a waste of space to have a guy who's supposed to primarily be the grit/toughness.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Remember we'll always have Paris...

My favourite was Andrew Raycroft in net trolling the Leafs after he won for us.

 

[Regal]

It's weird because Cooke was literally here for 10 years and was approaching top-10 all-time in franchise GP when he was traded.

And for, like, the first 8 nobody considered him a particularly dirty player. He was actually one of the biggest fan favourites through the WCE era - one of Larscheid's catch phrases was 'EVERYONE LOVES THE COOKER!' - and basically just known as a hard-working, physical energy player.

It was only in the last year or two after some regime/coaching changes plus some changing attitudes toward what was acceptable in terms of hitting that things changed, and it was almost overnight. There was a game where Cooke flattened Iginla and Ohlund ended up fighting Iginla and all of a sudden he was this turtling villain that the fans hated and wanted gone.

Yea, I think some of the comments are with the hindsight of his play after leaving the Canucks and a bit with how perceptions of the game have changed. He was a huge fan favourite and more of a pest than an overly dangerous player during the height of the WCE era. He even replaced Bertuzzi on the top line after the Moore incident and had 10 points in 13 games to finish the year. Scored the tying goal with 6 seconds left in the 2004 game 7 against Calgary with Jovo jumping in the box and everyone loved him then. It was only really after the lockout that things seemed to change.

 

[MS]

Was thinking of this too. Everyone loved the Cookie Monster and his playoff heroics. He didn't receive a suspension until spearing Matt Johnson, who is now homeless in California, in 2004 and his run-ins with going over the line didn't start until after he left the Canucks.

It's an interesting comparable to Scott Stevens who retired just in time to avoid the blindside hit crackdown and becoming a 'dirty cheapshot villain' while that change happened in the middle of Cooke's career.

But also yeah, the hits weren't the problem in Vancouver. The fact he didn't fight became this big thing.

 

[Hit the post]

My favourite was Andrew Raycroft in net trolling the Leafs after he won for us.

Especially since the Leafs first acquired him by trading to the Bruins the rights to a goalie that would end up winning the Vezina (Rask).

It's an interesting comparable to Scott Stevens who retired just in time to avoid the blindside hit crackdown and becoming a 'dirty cheapshot villain' while that change happened in the middle of Cooke's career.

But also yeah, the hits weren't the problem in Vancouver. The fact he didn't fight became this big thing.

Cooke didn't really go WAY over into the Brad Marchand type of hits until after his playing days in Vancouver. Sure he was no Lady Byng candidate but he wasn't the piece of shit he later became on other teams. Just an instigater type of player.

The one time he did fight & it was against Moore. Moore of course obliged him (as Cooke wasn't a fighter) & thus would be given the 'moral high ground' since he fought somebody on the Canucks after the hit to Nazzy.

 

[sting101]

I still can’t believe in 2023 and some GMs haven’t figured out that
1) Having Ryan Reaves types on the ice to bleed goals and maybe punch a face every once in a while isn’t a good idea. There is a reason teams don’t have enforcers anymore.
2) They don’t prevent their players from getting injured.
3) That Ryan Reaves is not a good hockey player. He’s been a minus player on every team he has been on. I know +/- is a flawed stat, but he has literally only played for contenders/yearly playoff teams. St Louis and Vegas would even go on to win cups shortly after he left.

On Lafferty, this is looking like a great trade. You just have to Laff at the Laffs for losing Lafferty.

28-32 yr old Reaves is a ok 4th liner with some benefits in that your gonna come out on top if teams want to try and have the last laugh in fights. I can see the lure as a sledge hammer that has the effect of taking the piss out of some skill players as well when he can get a piece but TOR losing Lafferty because he was pegged as the RW4 and Reaves just contracted his way into that spot for term 36-38 when he's absolutely useless now is pretty comical.

What an awful signing and good on PA for pouncing at the opportunity to improve our bottom 6

 

[MS]

Especially since the Leafs first acquired him by trading to the Bruins the rights to a goalie that would end up winning the Vezina (Rask).


Cooke didn't really go WAY over into the Brad Marchand type of hits until after his playing days in Vancouver. Sure he was no Lady Byng candidate but he wasn't the piece of shit he later became on other teams. Just an instigater type of player.

The one time he did fight & it was against Moore. Moore of course obliged him (as Cooke wasn't a fighter) & thus would be given the 'moral high ground' since he fought somebody on the Canucks after the hit to Nazzy.

He was doing a lot of the same stuff here - I remember noticing during the WCE era that he had more than a few kneeing plays - but it was viewed totally differently at that point.

People turned him on for the fighting and 'other players having to clean up his mess' but not because he was considered dirty for that era.

Interestingly, he had 13 fights as a Canuck which is a lot by modern standards but wasn't considered much 20 years ago.

 

[HairyKneel]

It's an interesting comparable to Scott Stevens who retired just in time to avoid the blindside hit crackdown and becoming a 'dirty cheapshot villain' while that change happened in the middle of Cooke's career.

But also yeah, the hits weren't the problem in Vancouver. The fact he didn't fight became this big thing.

Scott Stevens was a dirty prick and he always backed it up. Cooke rarely if ever did and he hung a lot of knees over his career and hacked a guy with his skate in addition to all the headshots and hits from behind. Cheap gutless prick.

 

[Hit the post]

He was doing a lot of the same stuff here - I remember noticing during the WCE era that he had more than a few kneeing plays - but it was viewed totally differently at that point.

People turned him on for the fighting and 'other players having to clean up his mess' but not because he was considered dirty for that era.

Interestingly, he had 13 fights as a Canuck which is a lot by modern standards but wasn't considered much 20 years ago.

Maybe I had my homer glasses on to "overlook" that. I didn't overlook the one time he tried to instigate a fight with Phaneuf. The later dropped his gloves and went after Cooke who turtled. Old man Ohlund with one bad eye had to step in and fight his battle that he provoked. Stuff like that no doubt pissed off Vigneault.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

With Blueger back at some point in the near future he will finally get to play on the wing which I think he is much better suited for. Will be interested to see him and Hoglander flanking the wings together.

 

[tantalum]

Regardless of the reasons why he wore out his welcome (league changes or whatever) he did wear out his welcome. He did so on the canucks at the end of his tenure (why the trade was sort of rushed one) and he certainly did with the Penguins.

 

[thecupismine]

The difference with Cooke in the WCE era of hockey was that there were more dedicated tough guys on the roster who'd step in to take those fights back then.

After the lockout, those players slowly started to fade away, and the perception of having someone else fight your battles (especially if they were higher up in the lineup than you) was very poor.

Having someone like Wade Brookbank fight a guy after you level them is a lot easier to handle than asking Ohlund or Kevin Bieksa to do it on your behalf.

 

[HairyKneel]

Regardless of the reasons why he wore out his welcome (league changes or whatever) he did wear out his welcome. He did so on the canucks at the end of his tenure (why the trade was sort of rushed one) and he certainly did with the Penguins.

Agreed. Matty O had to fight for him against Jarome and I am pretty sure i remember a few other instances where he cowered and someone fought for him. The Wild used to chase him around the ice after he gooned someone.