Confirmed with Link: [VAN/TOR] Canucks acquire F Sam Lafferty for 2024 5th Round Pick

[Hit the post]

The difference with Cooke in the WCE era of hockey was that there were more dedicated tough guys on the roster who'd step in to take those fights back then.

After the lockout, those players slowly started to fade away, and the perception of having someone else fight your battles (especially if they were higher up in the lineup than you) was very poor.

Having someone like Wade Brookbank fight a guy after you level them is a lot easier to handle than asking Ohlund or Kevin Bieksa to do it on your behalf.

Damn......remember when the Canucks played "waivers tag" on that guy?

 

[HairyKneel]

The difference with Cooke in the WCE era of hockey was that there were more dedicated tough guys on the roster who'd step in to take those fights back then.

After the lockout, those players slowly started to fade away, and the perception of having someone else fight your battles (especially if they were higher up in the lineup than you) was very poor.

Having someone like Wade Brookbank fight a guy after you level them is a lot easier to handle than asking Ohlund or Kevin Bieksa to do it on your behalf.

Or he could have just hit players clean. He was a filthy little prick.

 

[F A N]

It’s part of the code, if you are going to take a run at players you have to answer for it. I’ve seen games where a non-fighter had messed up another guy and had to endure the following game having his head punched in on maybe three occasions, he was a lousy fighter but he took his lumps

Is this old school way of playing the game? Yes absolutely but Cooke played in that era.

On fighting, it’s not important to me anymore, it use to be a part of enjoyed when I was young, I don’t need it in the game nor do I want it gone…the game is way better without the enforcer.

And the code keeps changing, isn't applied fairly, and is vaguely enforced. How many of us think Bure instead of Odjick needs to fight after Bure throws a big hit? Cole dropped the gloves last game after a clean hit (with incidental contact) and that was the type of fight where Tryamkin wondered why Cole was forced to fight. There was a time when it's the player's responsibility to keep his head up.

Cooke hit Savard and essentially ended his career but Cooke wasn't penalized or suspended. Reportedly, after Cooke hit Savard, Recchi reached out to Guerin where they agreed that Cooke had to fight. So Guerin told Cooke that he had to fight Thornton who was apparently the closest guy to Cooke's size (which was still a mismatch). After they fought, both player benches felt that it was done. In the same vein, did the Avs tell Moore that he had to fight and did the teams agree that Cooke was the one to fight him? Didn't seem that way. Certainly, Bertuzzi didn't think Moore fighting Cooke was enough.

It's weird because Cooke was literally here for 10 years and was approaching top-10 all-time in franchise GP when he was traded.

And for, like, the first 8 nobody considered him a particularly dirty player. He was actually one of the biggest fan favourites through the WCE era - one of Larscheid's catch phrases was 'EVERYONE LOVES THE COOKER!' - and basically just known as a hard-working, physical energy player.

Thank you. That's exactly what I said in my post above yours. I thought I was misremembering.

 

[MS]

Thank you. That's exactly what I said in my post above yours. I thought I was misremembering.

Yeah, it's a really revisionist history on Cooke here now when people act like he was this dirty cheapshot artist that everyone hated having on the team.

Through the entire Crawford era the guy was one of the biggest fan favourites here. Hit everything that moved, worked his ass off, and nobody seemed to mind that he did the Claude Lemieux things every once in a while.

It was only in the last year that the fanbase turned on him, and a game against Calgary where a Cooke hit led to an Ohlund fight seemed to be the trigger. AV (an ex-goon) also didn't seem to be nearly as big of a fan as Crawford (who was basically cut from the same cloth as Cooke and absolutely loved him).

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It's weird because Cooke was literally here for 10 years and was approaching top-10 all-time in franchise GP when he was traded.

And for, like, the first 8 nobody considered him a particularly dirty player. He was actually one of the biggest fan favourites through the WCE era - one of Larscheid's catch phrases was 'EVERYONE LOVES THE COOKER!' - and basically just known as a hard-working, physical energy player.

It was only in the last year or two after some regime/coaching changes plus some changing attitudes toward what was acceptable in terms of hitting that things changed, and it was almost overnight. There was a game where Cooke flattened Iginla and Ohlund ended up fighting Iginla and all of a sudden he was this turtling villain that the fans hated and wanted gone.

Cooke changed too, not just what was acceptable.





Those are dirty but... this:



This shit is where he became one of the worst people in hockey for me.

 

[DFAC]

Yeah, it's a really revisionist history on Cooke here now when people act like he was this dirty cheapshot artist that everyone hated having on the team.

Through the entire Crawford era the guy was one of the biggest fan favourites here. Hit everything that moved, worked his ass off, and nobody seemed to mind that he did the Claude Lemieux things every once in a while.

It was only in the last year that the fanbase turned on him, and a game against Calgary where a Cooke hit led to an Ohlund fight seemed to be the trigger. AV (an ex-goon) also didn't seem to be nearly as big of a fan as Crawford (who was basically cut from the same cloth as Cooke and absolutely loved him).

Yeah I agree with this - he was a 100% a fan favourite when he was a Canuck

But to be fair, I do think his game got a lot dirtier after he left the Canucks but maybe I'm just being biased lol

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeah I agree with this - he was a 100% a fan favourite when he was a Canuck

But to be fair, I do think his game got a lot dirtier after he left the Canucks but maybe I'm just being biased lol

You are correct.

He did some foul shit after he left Van.

 

[DekeyPete]

You are correct.

He did some foul shit after he left Van.

He did foul shit his whole life. Ask his billet whose wife he stole. Sean Avery tells the story well.

 

[RobertKron]

Don Cherry theatrics aside, Cooke did tons of terrible shit with the Canucks.

His general attitude did seem to get worse as time went on with the team as he seemed to come to consider himself a main guy rather just than a bit player, but maybe he just got more screen time and it transformed perception of him from semi-anonymous grinder to obvious total piece of shit.

He does seem to also have played into this intentionally: "The biggest thing for me is that on the ice, there's a persona," Cooke says. "It's what it is because that's what's made me successful. But that has nothing to do with who I am." He also claims that it was Crawford who told him not to fight to back up his play because it would lessen his impact as an agitator (Crawford apparently denies this, but IMO it tracks), which would line up with Crawford loving him and AV not really being on board.

Some takes from former teammates:

"Matt Cooke has found his niche and [plays] his role very effectively," says Mike Keane, who played 16 NHL seasons, including one as Cooke's teammate on the Canucks in 2003--04. "He goes out and hits Ovechkin, hits guys from behind. If he hurts Ovechkin, who cares? The Washington Capitals won't win the Stanley Cup. He did his job. For Matt Cooke, that's perfect."

"If people suggest our game is violent," says Brad May, the former enforcer who also played with Cooke in Vancouver, "Matt Cooke is one of the guys inciting this violence."

"So many days I'd say, This guy [is] a factor; Cooke helped us win," says May, the ex--Canucks tough guy. "And other days I'd be icing my knuckles or my temple and thinking, I wouldn't have been in that fight at all except for that ass----."

Quotes are from this old SI article.

 

[RobertKron]

Also, if we're trying to claim he was fine until later in his career, his hit on Avery in the OHL prospects game is as bad a play as you'll find.



Which, IIRC, was the cause of this, but I might be getting stories mixed up:

 

[David Bruce Banner]

So, with all this Cooke and Ruutu talk, how do we remember Torres?
I wouldn’t call him dirty per se, but he sure was reckless. I’d even argue that he, and players like him, were more feared in their time than the enforcers. You always had to have your head on a swivel when he was on the ice.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Cant say enough about this trade..Lafferty has re-energized the bottom 6..Precisely the kind of player that the Canucks needed (according to JR)...Fast and gritty.

 

[Josepho]

He's playing his way out of being affordable lol

 

[God]

So, with all this Cooke and Ruutu talk, how do we remember Torres?
I wouldn’t call him dirty per se, but he sure was reckless. I’d even argue that he, and players like him, were more feared in their time than the enforcers. You always had to have your head on a swivel when he was on the ice.

he is one of my favourite short-term canucks. he was a fantastic body checker and that made him a great forechecker because he could get the puck back on retrievals. but he had zero ability to discern (or couldn't think fast enough, or was predatory, take your pick - i don't know the guy) when a player was in a vulnerable position, and that really just ruined him. he retired at 35 i think, and i don't think his play had suffered at all... he would've easily been able to play a couple more seasons.

 

[Another Empty Netter]

So, with all this Cooke and Ruutu talk, how do we remember Torres?
I wouldn’t call him dirty per se, but he sure was reckless. I’d even argue that he, and players like him, were more feared in their time than the enforcers. You always had to have your head on a swivel when he was on the ice.

Loved Torres, A unique player like Odjick, n of 1.

 

[bbud]

Great addition so far bet there are a list of teams who wish they got him

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Cant say enough about this trade..Lafferty has re-energized the bottom 6..Precisely the kind of player that the Canucks needed (according to JR)...Fast and gritty.

i still think we can get out of him too. I dont see chemistry with Beaulivier. Hoping he has some with Bleuger and Hoglander

 

[bbud]

i still think we can get out of him too. I dont see chemistry with Beaulivier. Hoping he has some with Bleuger and Hoglander

Hard to argue with success although points are lacking that line is making themselves hard to play I know expectations are high because he was traded for Bo .
The real piece in that deal became Hronek so let beu do his thing bottom 6 are helping win games thats what matters

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

i still think we can get out of him too. I dont see chemistry with Beaulivier. Hoping he has some with Bleuger and Hoglander

Who does Beauvillier have chemistry with..?..and why should we care..?.he's not what I would call a real bottom 6 player..More of a marginal top 6 soft skilled scoring forward.

 

[RandV]

The thing with any player like Cooke is not so much that they're 'dirty', but if they make their game by going around trying to hit everyone eventually you're going to catch a guy in the wrong position. Same for any pro player really, but if you're talking about guys who throw under 50 a season vs those doing 200+ hits that's a big discrepancy in odds for a bad hit.

I've always felt the truly 'dirty' players were guys like Bryan Marchment, who went for players knees. The handful of guys in a Canucks uniform in the era we're talking about: Cooke, Ruutu, Burrows, Torres, etc, walked the line a little but I never thought they were particularly dirty for us.

 

[RobertKron]

The thing with any player like Cooke is not so much that they're 'dirty', but if they make their game by going around trying to hit everyone eventually you're going to catch a guy in the wrong position. Same for any pro player really, but if you're talking about guys who throw under 50 a season vs those doing 200+ hits that's a big discrepancy in odds for a bad hit.

I've always felt the truly 'dirty' players were guys like Bryan Marchment, who went for players knees. The handful of guys in a Canucks uniform in the era we're talking about: Cooke, Ruutu, Burrows, Torres, etc, walked the line a little but I never thought they were particularly dirty for us.

Cooke went after knees plenty, though, just like Marchment also made clean hits.

Cooke and Torres were pretty clearly dirty players. Neither appeared to give a shit whatsoever about injuring their opponents. The idea that either Cooke or Torres was just making inevitable "oops" plays because he was such a hitter is absurd.

Ruutu, IIRC, was an obnoxious agitator, and obviously crossed the line at times, but usually tended to be able to reel it in and avoid being really dangerous. Burrows, as well.

Like, look at how many of these Torres hits where he basically only makes contact with the head.

 

[Regal]

Who does Beauvillier have chemistry with..?..and why should we care..?.he's not what I would call a real bottom 6 player..More of a marginal top 6 soft skilled scoring forward.

I think he’s shown he can be a useful in the bottom 6 when he uses his speed to create disruption on the forecheck, and he has the skill to make plays when he does. He doesn’t do it consistently enough though, and I’m not sure if that will change at 26.

 

[HairyKneel]

You are correct.

He did some foul shit after he left Van.

And he did some foul shit when he played here. Are you a newer fan? The guy hung the knee out regularly. The Wild were going to kill him. Matty O caught a beating for him after he buried Jarome Iginla. He was a dirty puke when he was here. He got even dirtier. Ruttu was dirty but he wouldn’t back down. Someone compared him to HHOF Scott Stevens which is laughable. Stevens fought EVERYONE and so most of them back in the day and was a premier player for 20 years. Cooke was a third line scrub.

 

[MS]

And he did some foul shit when he played here. Are you a newer fan? The guy hung the knee out regularly. The Wild were going to kill him. Matty O caught a beating for him after he buried Jarome Iginla. He was a dirty puke when he was here. He got even dirtier. Ruttu was dirty but he wouldn’t back down. Someone compared him to HHOF Scott Stevens which is laughable. Stevens fought EVERYONE and so most of them back in the day and was a premier player for 20 years. Cooke was a third line scrub.

... and this entire fanbase absolutely loved him for a decade.

None of this stuff was even on the radar until his last season, and even then it was only 'other guys have to fight for him'.

 

[HairyKneel]

... and this entire fanbase absolutely loved him for a decade.

None of this stuff was even on the radar until his last season, and even then it was only 'other guys have to fight for him'.

Well I never loved him or Torres. I thought they were both filthy players. As Isaid Stevens would fight all comers and he was probably a top 10 to 15 fighter in the league in addition to scoring 40-50 points and being a top 15 D man of all time. Nobody called him a turtle. I’m objective as a fan. I hate Cooke. I disliked Raffi but he only played one season. These assholes played to injure their NHLPA brothers.