Confirmed Trade: [VAN/TBL] J.T. Miller for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd round pick, and 2020 conditional 1st round pick

[DFC]

Facts. Hard to criticize giving up the first when he’s been that good. We can say “we could have gotten him for less” all we want, but the trade has turned out well.

I doubt you could have gotten him for less. I think it's unlikely JBB was only dealing with Vancouver, so the price was likely driven up to a reasonable point.

 

[Ezekial]

It's not hard at all to criticize it.

So far we're 9% through his contract, JT Miller is playing at the highest level he has ever played and the Canucks are clinging to the final playoff spot in the west. You can't say it's "turned out well", when we've got 91% more of his deal to go.

JT Miller could score 80 points this year and next and even throughout all 4 years of this deal, but if they don't make the playoffs then what was the point?

He's a really good player, but for a team in Vancouver's position (non playoff team for 4 straight years/capped out) it seems ill timed and resembles the Islanders giving up a 1st for Vanek. How'd that work out?

First of all, JT Miller is a 26 year old athlete, perfect time to have him for 4 years. Second of all, when he was traded to the Lightning, he put up 18 points in 19 games to end the season and 10 of those points were goals, he was averaging 18 minutes a night. That's a pretty similar level of play to now. The following year he was playing an average of ~14.5 mins a night and still had a near 50 point shortened season. It was pretty easy to see if you looked into it that JT Miller could excel in this situation.

 

[4Twenty]

First of all, JT Miller is a 26 year old athlete, perfect time to have him for 4 years. Second of all, when he was traded to the Lightning, he put up 18 points in 19 games to end the season and 10 of those points were goals, he was averaging 18 minutes a night. That's a pretty similar level of play to now. The following year he was playing an average of ~14.5 mins a night and still had a near 50 point shortened season. It was pretty easy to see if you looked into it that JT Miller could excel in this situation.

The point of my post isn’t that JT Miller isn’t good. It’s that the Canucks paid a premium when they’re still not very good with JT Miller playing at a sustained level he’s never sustained in the nhl.

this trade will/should be graded by team success not 30 games of great individual performance.

 

[Ezekial]

The point of my post isn’t that JT Miller isn’t good. It’s that the Canucks paid a premium when they’re still not very good with JT Miller playing at a sustained level he’s never sustained in the nhl.

this trade will/should be graded by team success not 30 games of great individual performance.

Canucks fans go overboard whenever Benning does anything, he got a really good player for a fair price, a non-lottery first round pick. Stocking up on draft hopes only gets you so far, real NHL players are tangible assets - and good ones are worth something.
You paid a guy that is in the Czech League right now, a 3rd, and a bottom half first round pick for a perennial 50 point scorer who is obviously meshing with your top players and could put up 70. Get over it. If the Canucks miss the playoffs these next 2 years in a row then it's an extreme TEAM failure.

 

[John Johnson]

Canucks fans go overboard whenever Benning does anything, he got a really good player for a fair price, a non-lottery first round pick. Stocking up on draft hopes only gets you so far, real NHL players are tangible assets - and good ones are worth something.
You paid a guy that is in the Czech League right now, a 3rd, and a bottom half first round pick for a perennial 50 point scorer who is obviously meshing with your top players and could put up 70. Get over it. If the Canucks miss the playoffs these next 2 years in a row then it's an extreme TEAM failure.

This sums up everything pretty much.

 

[4Twenty]

Canucks fans go overboard whenever Benning does anything, he got a really good player for a fair price, a non-lottery first round pick. Stocking up on draft hopes only gets you so far, real NHL players are tangible assets - and good ones are worth something.
You paid a guy that is in the Czech League right now, a 3rd, and a bottom half first round pick for a perennial 50 point scorer who is obviously meshing with your top players and could put up 70. Get over it. If the Canucks miss the playoffs these next 2 years in a row then it's an extreme TEAM failure.

It has nothing to do with Benning. It has to do with a perennial lottery team trading first round picks. It rarely if ever contributes to real team success. Also, the 1st round pick could easily be a lottery selection. Like I said already, the Canucks are barely a playoff team right now, and that's with JT Miller playing out of his mind. It's not unforeseeable that they miss both years, either way, it's a 1st round pick getting traded by a lottery team.

Yes if the Canucks miss the playoffs the next two years it would be an extreme team failure, that's the point. They're barely mediocre now, have major cap commitments beyond this year (any Hughes/Pettersson bonuses eat up next years cap already) and have big holes on the roster to fill or extend with Markstrom and Tanev UFA's. Plus these are the likely the easiest years of cap to manage as Hughes and Pettersson are still on their ELC's.

JT Miller can be a good player, and the price could be justified, and the timing for the organization could still be wrong. These thoughts can co-exist.

I'd say the Canucks need to make the playoffs either 3 of the 4 years of JT Miller's deal or at have a run of playoff success (multiple trips to the 2nd round or a trip to the conference final) for this trade to be justified. Hopefully it is, but 30 games in isn't enough to judge.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

It has nothing to do with Benning. It has to do with a perennial lottery team trading first round picks. It rarely if ever contributes to real team success. Also, the 1st round pick could easily be a lottery selection. Like I said already, the Canucks are barely a playoff team right now, and that's with JT Miller playing out of his mind. It's not unforeseeable that they miss both years, either way, it's a 1st round pick getting traded by a lottery team.

Yes if the Canucks miss the playoffs the next two years it would be an extreme team failure, that's the point. They're barely mediocre now, have major cap commitments beyond this year (any Hughes/Pettersson bonuses eat up next years cap already) and have big holes on the roster to fill or extend with Markstrom and Tanev UFA's. Plus these are the likely the easiest years of cap to manage as Hughes and Pettersson are still on their ELC's.

JT Miller can be a good player, and the price could be justified, and the timing for the organization could still be wrong. These thoughts can co-exist.

I'd say the Canucks need to make the playoffs either 3 of the 4 years of JT Miller's deal or at have a run of playoff success (multiple trips to the 2nd round or a trip to the conference final) for this trade to be justified. Hopefully it is, but 30 games in isn't enough to judge.

The Canucks just need to make the playoffs 1 out of the next 2 years. Miller's value has already increased as he is showing that he is a legitimate 1st line player now. I think this year we improve and stay on the bubble until the bitter end, 50/50 shot at playoffs. Next year I see a playoff team. JB dumps LE after his bonus is paid, finds a way to upgrade Bo's wing. I also see Stetcher and Leivo traded by the deadline for picks. I think Leivo has played his way from a 4th pick to a 3rd +. I also see Stetcher as maybe a 2nd, or a 3rd +. Rafferty and Zack replace them.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Yes. How laughable. Haha.

Calgary, San Jose and Nashville. Not exactly bad teams chasing us. I can only wish Benning luck replacing or re-signing Tanev and Markström for next season.

Let's talk again.

You’re absolutely clueless. Tanev can be easily resigned for 5 million or less. Markstrom will be traded or walks in FA. We have a guy named Thatcher Demko who can replace him, not sure if you’ve heard of him...

 

[Canadian Canuck]

It's not hard at all to criticize it.

So far we're 9% through his contract, JT Miller is playing at the highest level he has ever played and the Canucks are clinging to the final playoff spot in the west. You can't say it's "turned out well", when we've got 91% more of his deal to go.

JT Miller could score 80 points this year and next and even throughout all 4 years of this deal, but if they don't make the playoffs then what was the point?

He's a really good player, but for a team in Vancouver's position (non playoff team for 4 straight years/capped out) it seems ill timed and resembles the Islanders giving up a 1st for Vanek. How'd that work out?

How is it Ill timed though? We needed to upgrade our top 6 everyone and their dog knew that. We did it and got a 50-60 point guy we’ll under 30 who plays with energy and heart. If that first becomes a non lottery pick it’s an absolute steal of a deal. He’s in his prime the entire contract, he’s not going to fizzle out ala Loui Eriksson.

 

[DFC]

It has nothing to do with Benning. It has to do with a perennial lottery team trading first round picks. It rarely if ever contributes to real team success. Also, the 1st round pick could easily be a lottery selection. Like I said already, the Canucks are barely a playoff team right now, and that's with JT Miller playing out of his mind. It's not unforeseeable that they miss both years, either way, it's a 1st round pick getting traded by a lottery team.

Yes if the Canucks miss the playoffs the next two years it would be an extreme team failure, that's the point. They're barely mediocre now, have major cap commitments beyond this year (any Hughes/Pettersson bonuses eat up next years cap already) and have big holes on the roster to fill or extend with Markstrom and Tanev UFA's. Plus these are the likely the easiest years of cap to manage as Hughes and Pettersson are still on their ELC's.

JT Miller can be a good player, and the price could be justified, and the timing for the organization could still be wrong. These thoughts can co-exist.

I'd say the Canucks need to make the playoffs either 3 of the 4 years of JT Miller's deal or at have a run of playoff success (multiple trips to the 2nd round or a trip to the conference final) for this trade to be justified. Hopefully it is, but 30 games in isn't enough to judge.

At the same time... You have EP on his ELC deal, and coming into his prime. Having cost-controlled complementary players to surround him, especially after you have to pay him, isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

[4Twenty]

How is it Ill timed though? We needed to upgrade our top 6 everyone and their dog knew that. We did it and got a 50-60 point guy we’ll under 30 who plays with energy and heart. If that first becomes a non lottery pick it’s an absolute steal of a deal. He’s in his prime the entire contract, he’s not going to fizzle out ala Loui Eriksson.

Have you not read any of my posts?

The timing is that a lottery team, that missed the playoffs 4 straight seasons, and 5 times in 6 years, traded a 1st round pick just to become mediocre. Everyone and their dog can know whatever they want, improving the team DID NOT have to come at the expense of a future 1st round pick.

Like I said, the team has to be successful or it's all for nothing.

To the bold: I hate this line of thinking, say it turns out that it's 22nd overall, but they had the opportunity to draft the next David Pastrnak at that spot....is it still a steal? If the Canucks don't have any success in the 4 years of Miller, but that player or players taken at that pick and after becoming star players or even JT Miller level players, then you just wasted 4 years dressing up a bad team into a mediocre team and have less future talent.

Miller looks really good, but generally you see these moves when teams have already risen from bad to mediocre, you see them when mediocre is trying to push into good.

 

[4Twenty]

At the same time... You have EP on his ELC deal, and coming into his prime. Having cost-controlled complementary players to surround him, especially after you have to pay him, isn't the worst thing in the world.

Yeah for sure, that's something.

But cost control of 27-30 yr old player vs cost control of 1st rd ELC with 8 years of team control?

 

[DFC]

Yeah for sure, that's something.

But cost control of 27-30 yr old player vs cost control of 1st rd ELC with 8 years of team control?

It really depends on where that 1st rounder lands. If it's outside the top-10, chances of him being better than Miller aren't great. I mean, I'm not saying he definitely wouldn't be, but Miller's probably a top-100 player in the league. Those don't grow on trees. I'm not optimistic that the Lightning, for instance, will get a better player than Miller with that pick. We might, and we have a good track record with that kind of thing (so long as we draft a forward, anyway), but it's definitely under 50%. Probably under 30.

 

[4Twenty]

It really depends on where that 1st rounder lands. If it's outside the top-10, chances of him being better than Miller aren't great. I mean, I'm not saying he definitely wouldn't be, but Miller's probably a top-100 player in the league. Those don't grow on trees. I'm not optimistic that the Lightning, for instance, will get a better player than Miller with that pick. We might, and we have a good track record with that kind of thing (so long as we draft a forward, anyway), but it's definitely under 50%. Probably under 30.

He's having a really good start for sure. But maybe I'm out to lunch, but I don't seem to recall him ever being referred to as a top 100 player in the NHL prior to his 30 game start in Vancouver.

Miller himself was taken outside the top 10. Sure it could be a worse player, but the point is that the team has to actually have success for it to be worth it IMO.

 

[Grantham]

@y2kcanucks - thoughts?

Why are you throwing our posters under the bus? They can say whatever the heck they want on our boards. I respect a cynic more than an apologist any day, especially in the case of Benning

 

[TeddyBare]

Im definitely eating crow on this one.

I never thought JT Miller was as bad as some made him out to be, but i sure didnt expect this sort of impact.
Hopefully vancouver makes the playoffs so they can ditch that burden this year and just transfer that pick to Tampa.

 

[Connor McConnor]

You’re absolutely clueless. Tanev can be easily resigned for 5 million or less. Markstrom will be traded or walks in FA. We have a guy named Thatcher Demko who can replace him, not sure if you’ve heard of him...

Unless the Canucks really don't want to make the playoffs for the next 2 years I don't think you rely on a young goaltender who is currently averaging a 3.00 GAA/.906 SV%. Markstrom might not be the answer if he wants a big deal but definitely will need another proven goalie.

Also - JT is a stud. Dude plays a 2 way game and looks like he'll be putting up 70+ this year. The trade looks like fair value I'd say.

 

[Dynamite Time]

Oh I thought he was referring to...

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Could also be

 

[Jannik Hansen]

The Canucks just need to make the playoffs 1 out of the next 2 years. Miller's value has already increased as he is showing that he is a legitimate 1st line player now. I think this year we improve and stay on the bubble until the bitter end, 50/50 shot at playoffs. Next year I see a playoff team. JB dumps LE after his bonus is paid, finds a way to upgrade Bo's wing. I also see Stetcher and Leivo traded by the deadline for picks. I think Leivo has played his way from a 4th pick to a 3rd +. I also see Stetcher as maybe a 2nd, or a 3rd +. Rafferty and Zack replace them.

It would be pretty hilarious if Benning only trades FA’s for picks the year that we’ve traded away a first to be competitive.

 

[lawrence]

No who are they again?

baseball team. Texas Rangers

 

[Leafs87]

Yeah for sure, that's something.

But cost control of 27-30 yr old player vs cost control of 1st rd ELC with 8 years of team control?

Most first rounders don’t ever turn out being as good as Miller. Would you rather Miller or 8 years of “team controlled” Virtanen

 

[Horse McHindu]

Why are you throwing our posters under the bus? They can say whatever the heck they want on our boards. I respect a cynic more than an apologist any day, especially in the case of Benning

Hey,

I do apologize if you felt that I was throwing Y2K under the bus. I guess I sort of was and you’re right that we shouldn’t be doing that to our own. I just wanted him to admit just once that he liked something that Benning did. But yes - we’re all entitled to our opinions and so tagging him to comment on a post was a little inappropriate.

 

[y2kcanucks]

@y2kcanucks - thoughts?

Why are you tagging me?

It's still a bad trade for Vancouver either way because Benning gave away the leverage that he had over Tampa. Tampa desperately needed to dump salary, so instead of getting Miller at a discount because of that, Benning paid full price. It's already been reported that no other teams were willing to give up a 1st round pick.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Why are you tagging me?

Hadn’t seen you in over 5 months (I was serving a 5 month suspension for an illegal hit to the head), and so I thought I’d say hi. Despite our vast differences of opinions as it relates to hockey, I enjoy your posts. Hope you’ve been well.

 

[beachcomber]

Why are you tagging me?

It's still a bad trade for Vancouver either way because Benning gave away the leverage that he had over Tampa. Tampa desperately needed to dump salary, so instead of getting Miller at a discount because of that, Benning paid full price. It's already been reported that no other teams were willing to give up a 1st round pick.

Reported by who? The media knows nothing.